Well, for starters, if we want a balanced situation then add a Serco station into Deneb then we can talk about balancing because Serco have no place to rep and reload without having to jump back to the wormhole and jump back to the sector that is in a skirmish, meaning we will always be at a disadvantage… sooo clearly, we use all the resources we have to combat this issue, which is! “Capships” that’s all we can do to counter this problem deneb has a lot of changes needed before it can become balance. Capships are vital to people in deneb, especially Serco, if you wish to balance things out then placing a Station in deneb for serco is a step forward.

"Deneb was not supposed to be about Your Ship, or Your Equipment, it was supposed to be about collaborative service within a separate military structure. Something that someone could advance within, and not have to dedicate thousands of hours to capship construction (or whatever endgame activity), but still have some sense of advancement, achievement, and large-scale event participation."

Maybe there should be something meaningful that noobs can do in national combat. Perhaps some battles with level caps? Something like a 'heavy fighter skirmish' that is only available until combat 4. If there were maybe a Goliath on each side instead of a Trident, and suitable (easier) NPC's in the battle, it could be a mission that is more suitable to noobs. They should probably not be worth any points but instead count towards some reward for their nation. This could give them a sense of accomplishment, their actions helped both themselves and all other players of their nation. I don't know what that reward should be though. Perhaps extra forces in the major battles, IE; Teradons are deployed in pairs. Or maybe national access to some unique, limited production hardware.

Limit the small, medium, and large skirmishes to combat 3, 5 and, 6 respectively. The border battles, I'd leave open as a spectacle, a lure to make them want to work up to the skill level required to take part. Add a warning though that they are ill equipped to take on such a mission.

The mention of advancement within the nations military, rather then really functioning as a mercenary does sound really interesting. I think it would be truly awesome. Is that something we are likely to see in a few months or a few years?

The truth is that player owned capships were really rarely used in Deneb prior to ActivateTurrets, as they didn't really offer much advantage over what was already there.

We could simply disable ActivateTurrets functionality in Deneb, I suppose? (and no, turret-bots are not going to be an issue either, those are going away).

Well, for starters, if we want a balanced situation then add a Serco station into Deneb then we can talk about balancing..

I already answered that, with: Yes, and that will be changed, a lot of things are going to change about Deneb. But that isn't what we're discussing here. Rule #8, Read What The Developers Say.

This topic was supposed to be about whether capships combatively imbalance battle situations in Deneb. I'm not interested in being dragged onto other, tangential topics around station proximity. The station issue is well-known, and more discussion doesn't give me any added value.

The mention of advancement within the nations military, rather then really functioning as a mercenary does sound really interesting. I think it would be truly awesome. Is that something we are likely to see in a few months or a few years?

I don't know. The idea is very old, as is evidenced by this old RFC thread (although the idea itself is much older). It was primarily envisioned for Serco-vs-Itani conflict, as an alternate route of advancement that wouldn't mandate as much intense dedication as capship-construction, but would be more limited in value (only really applying to serco/itani conflicts).

(The fact that the idea is old is not really a "bad" thing: most of the game's direction dates to the late 90s. I've always known where I wanted to go, I just lacked the development resources to "get there").

There are things that need to be "fixed" about Deneb first, and once that happens, we're more likely to layer systems like this on-top. It could happen within the next year? But there's always the "relative priority / availability" challenge, and the fact that we keep getting hit with left-field BS that ends up absorbing months on end (this year including the various exploits and other issues).

Instead of banning player capships in Deneb, why not just activate the cool down period for the insurance mission the way it says in the mission when you first build your ship? If a pilot has to wait a week or two to take the insurance mission again it'll probably meter the number of capships used.

The way I see it, capship usefulness is a motivator to continue playing after you build one. If you start removing things to do with them it becomes more of an end game than it already is.

It'll certainly cause people to be less likely to risk capships, I agree. But, it will also cause knock-on effects for upcoming economy changes and piracy/PvP interaction that will limit the amount of inherent "testing" that people are willing to do, because of their capship limits.

Removing functionality from capships does reduce their overall value. But, again, net-net I don't think Deneb represents all that-much critical "capship value", particularly when juxtaposed against the intent of the Deneb game system. We are still adding more value and functionality for player-capships. But, I already expounded on that in some detail.

NO Deneb is not "absurdly easy to win with active turrets".

In fact it can be difficult to influence it at all if you are by yourself capship or not. There is nothing that a capship offers that is not already offered by the NPC capships on your team with the exception that you can put it at risk by attacking a more powerful NPC capship... and yes all of the NPC capships are more powerful than player capships.

I think the original suggestion is just the product of frustration due to the reduced player interest on the Itani side. If there were more involvement in Deneb by Itani players then we would be having a discussion about how Serco players have to drive so far (resetting the whole skirmish by the time they get back if alone). Rather than trying to cripple the group activities of a guild who has made Deneb a primary activity for group participation.

@hax I'm going to ignore most of what you said for various reasons, but I just have to push back on this:

"NO Deneb is not "absurdly easy to win with active turrets".

Yes it is. Deneb is decided mainly by skirmishes won (small, medium, large skirmishes constituting the bulk of skirmishes). Most skirmishes are unoccupied by human players, so therefore most skirmishes in which a human player participates are likely to be without opposition. Of the three skirmishes constituting the bulk of all skirmishes, small and mediums can be easy swung by simply auto-killing fighters.

Bring one capship armed appropriately and used with the most basic of skill (i.e. typing +ActiveTurrets and sitting there as your capguass pwns NPCs), and you can 1) farm many kills with zero effort and 2) escape immediately at any point and rep in an empty sector with zero fear. Bring more than one capship and it's just a joke.

and p.s. the skirmishes reset for itanis when they leave the sector too.

I mean you have to keep targeting enemy ships for your turrets to shoot them. You know what is easier to do? I know you do because you do it. Grab a swarm rag. Deshield enemy ships. Then just sit near your connie and click your mouse and watch auto targeting missiles take out incoming ships if the connie's turrets don't do it first. Have another rag or two and it's a joke.

Itani and Serco players are able to build and use capships in Deneb.

All players have the ability to build a capship if they are subbed... and they were NOT "rarely used in deneb prior to activeturrets". For instance ONE guild visits Deneb almost daily with player capship support and has been doing so since the introduction of player capships.

[I edited this post to comply with the rules regarding posting in Suggestions. Heed them. https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/37508 - W]

First off I understand that capships take while to even think about start building not to mention the at LEAST 3 months to build one, but vo is a mmorpg key word "MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE" and I like to look at numbers if one were to take on a large per chance with out a capship then they would have to keep their npc trident's,teradons,and even their heavy assault cruiser. I think we all know what happens if in a large your teradons dies, what do you do? Well first Target the stuff you can kill with just 1 player (trident's, stuff already deshielded) . Now let's look at it at a Tridents owner perspective if you go in depending on where you jump in you may be instantly deshielded (by the heavy assault cruiser) or if the enemy player is smart enough they will try and deshield that player as soon as possible to get him/her out of that sector. I have seen with my own eyes how easy it is to get a enemy capship out of sector. A player trident can and WILL hold a heavy assault cruiser's should IF AND ONLY IF you have probably about 9-12 npc's shooting at it with neutron blasters now if a teradons has it's lock on it give it around 500m(distance) and it'll deshield alone. Yes activeturrets make it somewhat easy but if you have turrets like caprails then it may just easier to manually shoot those thing because I've done that command with a ONE member sitting somewhat still probably 5m/s off to the right and a activeturret caprails missed(he was about 600-1k out)
Given I had my laugh when it hit but my point is that active turrets are not like a actual person firing your turrets for you they have flaws and those flaws are good because it means you won't die every time a capship comes in sector. And one thing to note.... It's take at least 3 people to deshield a heavy assault cruiser and only 1 person to deshield with Avalon if you double stack them.and when you enter Deneb IT is about gear.... Inc I want you to tell me what are you going to do with a ec-89 with a neutron blaster in a large or even a medium a small I can see you doing something to the bots in a small just not the trident.

Greenwall tell me.... If you got a capship would you stop saying they to overpowered in Deneb (no am not offering just making a point)

[I edited this post to comply with the rules for this forum. Rule #3. -W]

Dear Demonicat,

I have a Goliath and a Trident and have had them for longer than you have played the game. Despite this I have posted this thoughtful suggestion/comment out of concerns for balance.

Sincerely,

Greenwall

1: Serco characters with capships and bring them in and then get swarmed by itani NPC valks and vults, and then get deshield. 2: the HAC can deshield a player trident fairly quickly, and if a player gets on the broadside of a Connie, they will get deshielded. 3 NPC rags can deshield player capships. 4: everything in deneb can and will deshield a player capship.

[I edited this post to comply with the rules for this forum. Rule #3. -W]

As a reminder, it is a requirement of Suggestions to focus purely on the topic and the points being made, and not the individual making those points.

It's important enough to me to be Rule #3.

Dethtag:

1: You have 600,000 armor on a goliath to protect you AFTER you get deshielded AND you can jump out at any moment. That affords you plenty of wiggle room to press X and autokill ships for potentially the entire duration of the small or medium skirmish.

2: Pro tip: Don't fly near the enemy HAC.

3. See #2.

4. See #2.

Cheers.

I edited some posts here. If I find it necessary to edit any more posts from the same authors I may mute them from this thread and entirely delete the offending post. Please read and heed the forum rules so that we can have productive conversations here.