Forums » Suggestions
Due to the amount of damage they cause, and the hang time they have, capital swarms should cost energy (say 1000 per volly) .
1000 sounds a bit excessive. I'd say maybe 500. Either way it sounds like a decent idea. If it turns out to be a bad one, I suppose it could always be adjusted or removed entirely.
Any other feedback?
We added the "theory" of energy requirements to turrets, without actually going through the turrets and forcing them to adhere to any particular set of heuristics, so far (some had pre-existing numbers, and some did not).
There is an intent to go through and do that, but I definitely welcome feedback on what the usage levels should be.
We added the "theory" of energy requirements to turrets, without actually going through the turrets and forcing them to adhere to any particular set of heuristics, so far (some had pre-existing numbers, and some did not).
There is an intent to go through and do that, but I definitely welcome feedback on what the usage levels should be.
If turrets need energy to fire a pcb'd capship would have zero chance of survival
I'd like to expand on this after thinking about it for a while.
I believe there should be a Mk 1 and Mk2 version of ammo based capital weapons.
The Mk 1 are what we have already, but they will require energy to fire. Eventually they will require munitions in the cargo hold to reload from. This will keep the number of swarms flying lower. And will cut down on the magic infinite ammo that capships currently have.
Eventually we could get a Mk2 version. The Mk2 version will fire as fast as the ship pilot wants with zero energy usage. But once the ammo is gone from the turret, the pilot will need to redock with a capital ship station to reload all the turrets. This would probobly also have an even larger grid count.
The Mk2 version will allow an aggressive pilot to prioritize their combat effectiveness for immediate use.
The Mk1 version is more defense in nature, but when use in teams, it would be more effective overall.
I believe there should be a Mk 1 and Mk2 version of ammo based capital weapons.
The Mk 1 are what we have already, but they will require energy to fire. Eventually they will require munitions in the cargo hold to reload from. This will keep the number of swarms flying lower. And will cut down on the magic infinite ammo that capships currently have.
Eventually we could get a Mk2 version. The Mk2 version will fire as fast as the ship pilot wants with zero energy usage. But once the ammo is gone from the turret, the pilot will need to redock with a capital ship station to reload all the turrets. This would probobly also have an even larger grid count.
The Mk2 version will allow an aggressive pilot to prioritize their combat effectiveness for immediate use.
The Mk1 version is more defense in nature, but when use in teams, it would be more effective overall.
My opinion is that if every weapon costs energy then there is no defense against the PCB. There cannot be a perfect weapon in the game.
man, no way. Just because someone does a certain amount of damage that exceed your arbitrarily set limit doesn't justify adding energy cost to deploy.
Swarms are self fueled, the cap versions have various adjustments to make the usable only on capships, including MASS, which more than accounts for the extra explosive power (not that that is a necessary justification ever anyway). They are balanced enough. Next.
Swarms are self fueled, the cap versions have various adjustments to make the usable only on capships, including MASS, which more than accounts for the extra explosive power (not that that is a necessary justification ever anyway). They are balanced enough. Next.
They are balanced enough. Next.
They are unlimited. So I would say they are not balanced. Energy usage would balance out the unlimited issue.
They are unlimited. So I would say they are not balanced. Energy usage would balance out the unlimited issue.
They are limited by their delay.
They are limited by their delay.
Their ammo is unlimited. With exact timing, you can effectively fire one volly every 3.3 seconds for eternity.
Their ammo is unlimited. With exact timing, you can effectively fire one volly every 3.3 seconds for eternity.
Cap ships are powerful support ships. This change will not mitigate the usage of cap swarms as they are powerful missiles in a combat scenario.
Sure it will give more power to the PCB but in a decisive battle PCB's are always on grid. Now capital ship pilots would need to think twice about doing risky moves in combat. Like having fighter support. Other capital ships helping prehaps? I don't see this change being a big issue. But there's so much more to the issue than having cap swarms cost energy to fire.
Just my take on it.
Sure it will give more power to the PCB but in a decisive battle PCB's are always on grid. Now capital ship pilots would need to think twice about doing risky moves in combat. Like having fighter support. Other capital ships helping prehaps? I don't see this change being a big issue. But there's so much more to the issue than having cap swarms cost energy to fire.
Just my take on it.
I've increased them to 500, for the moment. Should be in production now.
I could endorse heavier energy usage from cap swarms.. but maybe this should be balanced by reduced grid usage. The cap swarms require enormous grid power already. Give it an energy drain for firing that is effectively equal to a reduced grid cost.
Actually a further refinement would be to have another type of cap swarm missile. One requires more energy to fire but takes less grid, the other requires more grid power but less energy to fire. This would fill the gap between swarms and gems. Currently capital gem turrets are not really useful.
I like this second idea best of all and think this would give you more tools to balance turret weapons. Imagine you have low energy turrets but not enough grid to fill your entire ship with them (ala goliath grid).. or you take a swarm turret that takes a lot of drain to fire but takes far less grid. Now you have 2 possible handles to manipulate for fine tuning.
Actually a further refinement would be to have another type of cap swarm missile. One requires more energy to fire but takes less grid, the other requires more grid power but less energy to fire. This would fill the gap between swarms and gems. Currently capital gem turrets are not really useful.
I like this second idea best of all and think this would give you more tools to balance turret weapons. Imagine you have low energy turrets but not enough grid to fill your entire ship with them (ala goliath grid).. or you take a swarm turret that takes a lot of drain to fire but takes far less grid. Now you have 2 possible handles to manipulate for fine tuning.
I noticed that a volley uses 3000 energy. Okay they have high dmg, but agree with Drevent we have no way defending ourselves, when even a missile launcher uses so much energy. Cmon, capswarms are literally useless like this, i would rather use a caprail with less cap need for killing stuff. Now if capships dont have cap, they are dead. You are a sitting duck without defenses waiting to lose a ship worth millions.
Cap should be reduced to 500 per volley, and not per missile, so still able to fire all three turrets in a trident.
Cap should be reduced to 500 per volley, and not per missile, so still able to fire all three turrets in a trident.
The energy cost seems way to high. If we can't fire alot at least up the velocity of the missiles I'm thinking 100m/s.
It's 500 per volley, updated in production now.
That's what was intended.
Ironically, Swarm Turrets were reduced in their usage, by this change. They had been 6x100, and now they're 6x83.3.
But, Chaos Swarm primary weapons were not using energy at all, and are now using 8x62.5.
So, at least both are now normalized to "500 per volley".
That's what was intended.
Ironically, Swarm Turrets were reduced in their usage, by this change. They had been 6x100, and now they're 6x83.3.
But, Chaos Swarm primary weapons were not using energy at all, and are now using 8x62.5.
So, at least both are now normalized to "500 per volley".
" But, Chaos Swarm primary weapons were not using energy at all, and are now using 8x62.5."
I don't understand what is meant by this. Do chaos swarms now use 500 energy to fire?
I don't understand what is meant by this. Do chaos swarms now use 500 energy to fire?
Yes, they do. Capship Chaos Swarms have 500-per-volley requirements.
***No ammunition-based weapons should use energy to fire--doing so breaks a basic principle of the game***
Missile turrets using energy is nonsensical. goes against existing game mechanics, and serves no inherent need or purpose.
Capswarms were already nerfed on damage quite some time ago-- there is no need to tone them down any further since it already requires skill and experience to use them properly.
Having ammunition-based weapons require energy to operate goes against already existing game mechanics-- ammo or energy: it's always been a trade-off, but one that still leaves you with the ability to attack/defend, regardless of your chosen loadout. Making ammunition-based weapons require energy to fire not only breaks the game, but it leaves capships defenseless against even the smallest of PCB attacks.
This "update" should be removed.
Missile turrets using energy is nonsensical. goes against existing game mechanics, and serves no inherent need or purpose.
Capswarms were already nerfed on damage quite some time ago-- there is no need to tone them down any further since it already requires skill and experience to use them properly.
Having ammunition-based weapons require energy to operate goes against already existing game mechanics-- ammo or energy: it's always been a trade-off, but one that still leaves you with the ability to attack/defend, regardless of your chosen loadout. Making ammunition-based weapons require energy to fire not only breaks the game, but it leaves capships defenseless against even the smallest of PCB attacks.
This "update" should be removed.
Having ammunition-based weapons require energy to operate goes against already existing game mechanics
Errrm, screamers required energy to fire since release, that only got changed very recently. Rail guns have always (since beta anyway) required both energy and ammo to fire. Your argument for this doesn't even have a basis. Other guns having this requirement before capships even existed kind of breaks your point a little?
Just because you feel it is wrong or doesn't fit, does not mean a thing, actually.
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Errrm, screamers required energy to fire since release, that only got changed very recently. Rail guns have always (since beta anyway) required both energy and ammo to fire. Your argument for this doesn't even have a basis. Other guns having this requirement before capships even existed kind of breaks your point a little?
Just because you feel it is wrong or doesn't fit, does not mean a thing, actually.
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