Forums » Suggestions
A different way of fixing the frigate
Let me please propose my idea for the frigate's health:
Make it entirely invulnerable to fighter weapons, and introduce more bomber weapons. Think about it logically. An X-Wing's lasers don't blow up a Star Destroyer, do they? Does small-arms fire usually destroy tanks? Do Shuttle Pods blow up Klingon Battlecruisers? No! And so, a Valk should not blow up a Frigate.
I have so far seen exactly 0 bombers in use against the frigate. Since the avalon is the only explosive weapon that does any damage to the frig, and it's gone, that is understandable. But I have seen dozens of valks, vults and centurions. Hmm...
So, I propose that the frigate be made, in some manner, invulnerable to fighters. The first step would be raising the hp to about 500,000hp. Then, add a level of dissapation armour that blocks all "small arms" fire (tachyons, gravs, gauss, rail, sunflare), but does not block large fire (plasma, avalon, dev ubergun). Then, give the turrets something around 75,000hp, to prevent people from disarming the frigate with a lone gauss centurion. Finally, add in escort fighters (equivalent to sc17's Furies) to give the fighters a job, namely escorting bombers.
To rebalance things, add in more bombers and weapons. Right now we have the Prom and the Rag for heavy bombers and the Wraith for a light bomber. I propose adding one more of each class. Then add weapons. The avalon should go back in, with a fuse that detonates it if it gets within 900m of a station, and prevents it from being fired within 900m of a station (to keep people from firing one that explodes in their faces and does damage to people at station). Then, throw in some more bomber weapons. I'd like to see a real torpedo, about the size of a Centurion, of which one can be carried at a time and which does approx 5x the damge of an avalon). I'd also like to see a tuned-down devcannon.
I think that if this stuff that I suggested is implimented, the style of fighting the frigate will change. If the "frigate group" idea is implimented (join a group, if someone from group kills frigate, poitns are split between group with the lions share going to killer), we'll see teams of bombers and fighters moving in on the frigate, or so I hope. Anyhow, comments?
Make it entirely invulnerable to fighter weapons, and introduce more bomber weapons. Think about it logically. An X-Wing's lasers don't blow up a Star Destroyer, do they? Does small-arms fire usually destroy tanks? Do Shuttle Pods blow up Klingon Battlecruisers? No! And so, a Valk should not blow up a Frigate.
I have so far seen exactly 0 bombers in use against the frigate. Since the avalon is the only explosive weapon that does any damage to the frig, and it's gone, that is understandable. But I have seen dozens of valks, vults and centurions. Hmm...
So, I propose that the frigate be made, in some manner, invulnerable to fighters. The first step would be raising the hp to about 500,000hp. Then, add a level of dissapation armour that blocks all "small arms" fire (tachyons, gravs, gauss, rail, sunflare), but does not block large fire (plasma, avalon, dev ubergun). Then, give the turrets something around 75,000hp, to prevent people from disarming the frigate with a lone gauss centurion. Finally, add in escort fighters (equivalent to sc17's Furies) to give the fighters a job, namely escorting bombers.
To rebalance things, add in more bombers and weapons. Right now we have the Prom and the Rag for heavy bombers and the Wraith for a light bomber. I propose adding one more of each class. Then add weapons. The avalon should go back in, with a fuse that detonates it if it gets within 900m of a station, and prevents it from being fired within 900m of a station (to keep people from firing one that explodes in their faces and does damage to people at station). Then, throw in some more bomber weapons. I'd like to see a real torpedo, about the size of a Centurion, of which one can be carried at a time and which does approx 5x the damge of an avalon). I'd also like to see a tuned-down devcannon.
I think that if this stuff that I suggested is implimented, the style of fighting the frigate will change. If the "frigate group" idea is implimented (join a group, if someone from group kills frigate, poitns are split between group with the lions share going to killer), we'll see teams of bombers and fighters moving in on the frigate, or so I hope. Anyhow, comments?
Erm... Fighters should still be able to kill the frigate, but it should be very hard. An X-Wing's torpedo can destroy the Death Star. Small-arms fire can destroy a tank if it gets into the cockpit or weapons stores. A shuttle pod can blow up a Klingon battlecruiser if it's got modified weapons (see: Delta Flyer) or it gets a good hit in on the warp core.
what is all this x-wing stuff about?!
I disagree with you then. The torpedo thing was always one of the unbalancing factors of X-Wing, because it made Y-Wings and B-Wings utterly useless. I never saw the episode where the delta flyer ran into klingons, what were they doing in the delta sector? And, well, there's no cockpit on the frigate...
Well, first off, I think that groups should always share the bounties received from kills. Period. It would be an incentive/caution for joining any given group. Are they going to help you, or just leech of your kills.
I like this idea. For once, it is not a band-aid solution. Unless a way is found to create weak spots (eg. a thermal vent or a cockpit) there should be no way for a fighter to kill a frigate. Not now, not in several years when the final version is released.
Now, I have a question. Considering that the Prometheus is supposed to be the uber-bomber of the game, why does it have so few weapons ports? SOme of my friends like the bomber approach, but they stick with the rag, even as red, because it can actually carry a decent loadout.
One final question for the devs: Are you guys planning on keeping the destroyable turrets? And, if so, how are they going to relate to the indestructible weapons present on all of the current fighters and bombers?
I like this idea. For once, it is not a band-aid solution. Unless a way is found to create weak spots (eg. a thermal vent or a cockpit) there should be no way for a fighter to kill a frigate. Not now, not in several years when the final version is released.
Now, I have a question. Considering that the Prometheus is supposed to be the uber-bomber of the game, why does it have so few weapons ports? SOme of my friends like the bomber approach, but they stick with the rag, even as red, because it can actually carry a decent loadout.
One final question for the devs: Are you guys planning on keeping the destroyable turrets? And, if so, how are they going to relate to the indestructible weapons present on all of the current fighters and bombers?
Effectively, all you are suggesting is a simplified version of 'armor' only rather than having your armor stop the first 600 or 1000 or whatever points of damage per hit depending on the ammount of armor present, you are having it stop all of one damage type (what you call 'small arms').
That might be better than nothing, but I don't find it as interesting as it could be.
That might be better than nothing, but I don't find it as interesting as it could be.
Hmm,
Celebrim, now that I get what you're saying, I like it. By eliminating the first 600 damage, you would effectively make it impossible to hit the frigate with weapons that did less than 600 damage. I think this would be the most effective way of implimenting rogue's idea, as deciding which weapons are 'sufficient' to damage any given ship would get tedious in the extreme.
Celebrim, now that I get what you're saying, I like it. By eliminating the first 600 damage, you would effectively make it impossible to hit the frigate with weapons that did less than 600 damage. I think this would be the most effective way of implimenting rogue's idea, as deciding which weapons are 'sufficient' to damage any given ship would get tedious in the extreme.
So, since the game already maps damage to different sections of the ship, should we all start whining for 'pressure points' on things like the frigate?
Rogue, that always bugged me too, along with the question of why they didn't bring the aux. bridge online on the Executor... But that's another story.
Back on topic, I like the idea of armor. Also, I would like to see it applied (in a limited fashion) to our current bombers. The Prom would certainly benefit from even armor of 100.
Rogue, that always bugged me too, along with the question of why they didn't bring the aux. bridge online on the Executor... But that's another story.
Back on topic, I like the idea of armor. Also, I would like to see it applied (in a limited fashion) to our current bombers. The Prom would certainly benefit from even armor of 100.
What is all of this X-Wing stuff?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Star Wars
Firstly, I am more qualified than any of you to talk about Star Wars, I was a total nerd about it for years.
And yes, an X-wing could down a Star Destroyer, heck, an X-wing could nerf a Super Star Destroyer. One torpedo to the shield bulbs on the bridge and a torpedo into the main bridge, and Wham Bam thank you Ma'am, no more SSD.
And a SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) is considered small arms and can cut through the armored hull of a BMP-2 Light Infantry Support Vehicle (Basically a tank hull with AAA turret and 2 Stinger-like missiles, carries 6 men)
And yes, an X-wing could down a Star Destroyer, heck, an X-wing could nerf a Super Star Destroyer. One torpedo to the shield bulbs on the bridge and a torpedo into the main bridge, and Wham Bam thank you Ma'am, no more SSD.
And a SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) is considered small arms and can cut through the armored hull of a BMP-2 Light Infantry Support Vehicle (Basically a tank hull with AAA turret and 2 Stinger-like missiles, carries 6 men)
I have a box with every Star Wars book up until last year, when I tired of them. Don't make me start. :P
Anyhow, the torpedo thing was put in there for dramatics. It doesn't really make sense to me why the shield generators protect everything on the ship EXCEPT themselves.
And the SAW is small arms by the absolute LIMIT of the definition. It's more of an emplacement gun that doesn't need to be placed.
Anyhow, the torpedo thing was put in there for dramatics. It doesn't really make sense to me why the shield generators protect everything on the ship EXCEPT themselves.
And the SAW is small arms by the absolute LIMIT of the definition. It's more of an emplacement gun that doesn't need to be placed.
Maybe just class the armor into two/three types- energy, pierce (gatlings/rails maybe), and concussive (rocket blasts) armor. Each would only be effective against a certain type. In the prom's case, having concussive or pierce armor would be the most effective. It would cost more to equip but have less limitations the more advanced the ship.