Forums » Suggestions
Small changes to weapon balance no one asked for!
Over the years having pewpew'd a great deal I'd like to bring attention to the following as they've typically seen very little use due to relatively high license requirements and/or skill requirement without bringing much over their more ubiquitous counterparts.
Flechette cannons,
Screamers,
and lastly Small port guided missles (Excluding the gemini)
There are many different ways to go about this but after much consideration on my side I figure these are the easiest changes that won't change things too much to the point of pissing people off or having a noticeable impact on weapon usage (as it stands the aforementioned weapons are useless in more difficult/competitive scenarios)
Flechette cannons could have their mass dropped by half from 600kg to 300kg, this would make them effective high dps secondary energy weapons to compliment the raven and the xgx/sparrow blasters.
Screamers have the energy requirement for firing dropped completely, the proximity increased from 20m to 25 and the splash from 30m to 50m.
And lastly light missiles (the firefly&yellow jacket) have their speed, damage and firing time increased to match the speed/ammo/endurance of stingrays at 95m/s to make them effective deshielding weapons as it stands both of these missiles are completely worthless relative to the first missile launcher players unlock (the gemini) which deals more damage, has more damage per tube and is easier to detonate on targets because of the high maneuverability and 10m proximity detonation versus contact for the other two.
TL;DR: half the mass of flechette cannons, drop the screamer energy req for firing, and increase the velocity, damage and ammo count of the firefly&yellow jacket missiles launchers to make them usable in concert with stingrays thus making missile stacking accessible to newbs.
PS: The centurion MKIII and vulture MkIV could both get slight mass reductions to bring them halfway between the rest of the base variants and the SVG/IBG, as it stands the centurion MkIII & Vulture IV are arguably worse fighters than the MkI and the MkIII but I'll save that for another forum post.
Flechette cannons,
Screamers,
and lastly Small port guided missles (Excluding the gemini)
There are many different ways to go about this but after much consideration on my side I figure these are the easiest changes that won't change things too much to the point of pissing people off or having a noticeable impact on weapon usage (as it stands the aforementioned weapons are useless in more difficult/competitive scenarios)
Flechette cannons could have their mass dropped by half from 600kg to 300kg, this would make them effective high dps secondary energy weapons to compliment the raven and the xgx/sparrow blasters.
Screamers have the energy requirement for firing dropped completely, the proximity increased from 20m to 25 and the splash from 30m to 50m.
And lastly light missiles (the firefly&yellow jacket) have their speed, damage and firing time increased to match the speed/ammo/endurance of stingrays at 95m/s to make them effective deshielding weapons as it stands both of these missiles are completely worthless relative to the first missile launcher players unlock (the gemini) which deals more damage, has more damage per tube and is easier to detonate on targets because of the high maneuverability and 10m proximity detonation versus contact for the other two.
TL;DR: half the mass of flechette cannons, drop the screamer energy req for firing, and increase the velocity, damage and ammo count of the firefly&yellow jacket missiles launchers to make them usable in concert with stingrays thus making missile stacking accessible to newbs.
PS: The centurion MKIII and vulture MkIV could both get slight mass reductions to bring them halfway between the rest of the base variants and the SVG/IBG, as it stands the centurion MkIII & Vulture IV are arguably worse fighters than the MkI and the MkIII but I'll save that for another forum post.
Dropping the energy requirement on the screamer would require something else to balance it. You get 16 of them in a tube and the delay is .7 seconds. With no energy usage you could probably come close to deshielding a trident while standing still with 2 tubes. That might be seen as OP..
With your suggestion, the grid would probably have to go way up. Like to 18.
With your suggestion, the grid would probably have to go way up. Like to 18.
I mean you still have to aim the freakin' things, not to mention someone who's stationary is an easy target for anyone who's worth their salt when it comes to pvp.
God forbid someone deshields a trident... 18 grid for screamers shieeeet.
God forbid someone deshields a trident... 18 grid for screamers shieeeet.
I think that buff for the screamers goes a bit too far, at least with their current stats. Currently they fire substantially more rapidly then jackhammers, with 50% more damage, and 33% more ammo. I think maybe drop their energy usage and up their mass to be 150% that of jackhammers.
As for the yellow jacket and firefly missiles. Maybe double their ammo count, and give them a lifetime sufficient to reach out to 3500m. Perhaps a 5m proximity fuse.
As for the yellow jacket and firefly missiles. Maybe double their ammo count, and give them a lifetime sufficient to reach out to 3500m. Perhaps a 5m proximity fuse.
Jackhammers fire every .5 and screamers fire every .7 the game does a decent amount of rounding when it comes to weapon fire rates but the screamer are mostly shite because of the increased speed, and the 1s safetyfuse.
The energy req is insult to injury on an already gimped weapon - people don't use screamers because they're freakin' insanely hard to use and just getting one to detonate on the dude you're fighting is an accomplishment in itself! (Granted they're not in a rag or something painfully heavy... for instance a trident/goliath).
Problem with making them heavier is they're already extremely difficult to use effectively with their current stats the energy req needs to go but if you're going to drag in the extra mass they could really use the extra prox/splash.
They're not as useless as say... the gat HV or conc rails but yeah they're definitely up there as far as weapons that could be cool but are so niche that there's no reason to put one on your ship beyond the sheer thrill of using the damn thing.
The energy req is insult to injury on an already gimped weapon - people don't use screamers because they're freakin' insanely hard to use and just getting one to detonate on the dude you're fighting is an accomplishment in itself! (Granted they're not in a rag or something painfully heavy... for instance a trident/goliath).
Problem with making them heavier is they're already extremely difficult to use effectively with their current stats the energy req needs to go but if you're going to drag in the extra mass they could really use the extra prox/splash.
They're not as useless as say... the gat HV or conc rails but yeah they're definitely up there as far as weapons that could be cool but are so niche that there's no reason to put one on your ship beyond the sheer thrill of using the damn thing.
"Jackhammers fire every .5 and screamers fire every .7"
Somehow I thought it was 1 second for Jacks. So they have a similar DPS but screamers carry more total damage. Thanks for correcting me on that. I just checked the wiki, apparently they are the same mass.
So yea dropping the energy requirement might be a decent idea. If it turns out to be OP, then it can always be changed again.
Now that you have me thinking of it, why not add a 'super screamer' or something. Give it 200 ammo but make it weigh WAY more, like 40,000kg. Same crappy Proximity fuse, but faster rate of fire, maybe .5. The idea being to use it as a nose gun on cap ships. I guess the lifetime would have to go up to 30s as well.
Being that heavy, it'd be useless on a fighter, even an SCP would be easy meat carrying one of those, but a Goliath or Trident would hardly notice the burden.
Somehow I thought it was 1 second for Jacks. So they have a similar DPS but screamers carry more total damage. Thanks for correcting me on that. I just checked the wiki, apparently they are the same mass.
So yea dropping the energy requirement might be a decent idea. If it turns out to be OP, then it can always be changed again.
Now that you have me thinking of it, why not add a 'super screamer' or something. Give it 200 ammo but make it weigh WAY more, like 40,000kg. Same crappy Proximity fuse, but faster rate of fire, maybe .5. The idea being to use it as a nose gun on cap ships. I guess the lifetime would have to go up to 30s as well.
Being that heavy, it'd be useless on a fighter, even an SCP would be easy meat carrying one of those, but a Goliath or Trident would hardly notice the burden.
and the 1s safetyfuse.
See now that would be a good suggestion. Remove the safety fuse from the screamer. I would +1 that all day long.
About the other stuff, not needed, I have seen some skilled pilots use screamers to good effect on the UDV paired with a mega posi. . You just need to work on getting good. Which means lots of practice.
See now that would be a good suggestion. Remove the safety fuse from the screamer. I would +1 that all day long.
About the other stuff, not needed, I have seen some skilled pilots use screamers to good effect on the UDV paired with a mega posi. . You just need to work on getting good. Which means lots of practice.
Right I'll uhhh... practice more... but hey I've managed to kill folk with a single popcorn gun on a centurion doesn't mean the gun in question isn't useless junk...
Ask any pilot proficient with rockets what they think of the screamer... People don't use them because they're less effective plain and simple the extra 4 shots you get with them doesn't make up for how frustrating it is to do next to no damage because the splash is so low that if you detonate one on the edge of the splash it hits less hard than a frikin' well placed starflare.
Screamers don't see any use not just because they're hard as shit to use it's mostly because they're crap in comparison to the jackhammer by-and-large because of the differences in prox/splash and yeah the energy usage is just insult to injury because it prevents using screamers in a chase which could be the one thing they don't suck at - but no 30 energy per shot giving it roughly twice as much DPE as a megaposi...
And if you think my suggestion's worthless well might as well make a suggestion to remove fireflies/yellow jackets altogether unless you like the fact that the game pulls a cruel joke on poor newbs who've grinded for a couple hours to unlock a shittier weapon? (Arguably the shittiest most useless weapons in the entire game short of the training blaster of course.)
The safety fuse is in the game for a reason otherwise people would issue on their own rockets because of the fact they do twice as much damage to the firing ship it's also why sunflares are the best rockets by one hell of a margin despite doing a pinch less damage than jacks.
Find me one of these screamer/megaposi udv pilots so I can give em the ol xgx rev C hug of death.
Telling me I need to train more... get a load of the balls on this guy. NAAAAHIIIIIN GET IN HERE DAMNIT I NEED YOU!
Ask any pilot proficient with rockets what they think of the screamer... People don't use them because they're less effective plain and simple the extra 4 shots you get with them doesn't make up for how frustrating it is to do next to no damage because the splash is so low that if you detonate one on the edge of the splash it hits less hard than a frikin' well placed starflare.
Screamers don't see any use not just because they're hard as shit to use it's mostly because they're crap in comparison to the jackhammer by-and-large because of the differences in prox/splash and yeah the energy usage is just insult to injury because it prevents using screamers in a chase which could be the one thing they don't suck at - but no 30 energy per shot giving it roughly twice as much DPE as a megaposi...
And if you think my suggestion's worthless well might as well make a suggestion to remove fireflies/yellow jackets altogether unless you like the fact that the game pulls a cruel joke on poor newbs who've grinded for a couple hours to unlock a shittier weapon? (Arguably the shittiest most useless weapons in the entire game short of the training blaster of course.)
The safety fuse is in the game for a reason otherwise people would issue on their own rockets because of the fact they do twice as much damage to the firing ship it's also why sunflares are the best rockets by one hell of a margin despite doing a pinch less damage than jacks.
Find me one of these screamer/megaposi udv pilots so I can give em the ol xgx rev C hug of death.
Telling me I need to train more... get a load of the balls on this guy. NAAAAHIIIIIN GET IN HERE DAMNIT I NEED YOU!
I can take out a (player) tridents shields with a taur, 2x jackhammers and a neutron blaster, so having a screamers as an option wouldn't actually change anything. Have you tried it? Because before you say it isn't possible you really should.
I've always thought it quite silly that screamers require energy and did suggest this too many many years ago, back when slime and omega o played!
I've always thought it quite silly that screamers require energy and did suggest this too many many years ago, back when slime and omega o played!
yeah the energy usage is just insult to injury because it prevents using screamers in a chase which could be the one thing they don't suck at - but no 30 energy per shot giving it roughly twice as much DPE as a megaposi...
Most people chase in small port ships. In that situation, the Corvus Ultra Positron comes into its own.
Most people chase in small port ships. In that situation, the Corvus Ultra Positron comes into its own.
Screamers suck, a select few use them despite the fact they're crap relative to jackhammers, the buff I have in mind has nothing to do with capships it's gotta do with giving these addons some love because they're fun weapons but they don't see any use in "serious" pvp, I mean shit take two seconds to compare the flechette cannon mkII to a neutron blaster mkII it's worse in every conceivable way and has higher level reqs... and no the fact it shoots all over the place is not a positive feature...
The light port missiles are a complete joke... I'm not going to bother getting into it because it's well established they're useless no one uses them... those get purchased once by someone who wants to test them out and that's it.
Screamers are the highest level rocket and no one uses them outside of dunking on folks similar to fitting popcorn on my ships I put these weapons on to level the playing field not because they give an edge in any situation, removing the energy req on screamers is the least that could be done to make them a bit more viable.
Of course the corvus ultra posi is better in a chase scenario than a large port rocket launcher but that's not the point the point is screamers are shite compared to jacks because of the prox/splash and have a higher level req the extra 4 shots don't make up for it and the energy req... bah find me one of these screamer pilots with their UDV I'll happily take em on with a jackhammer fit WTD and that'll settle it. :}
The light port missiles are a complete joke... I'm not going to bother getting into it because it's well established they're useless no one uses them... those get purchased once by someone who wants to test them out and that's it.
Screamers are the highest level rocket and no one uses them outside of dunking on folks similar to fitting popcorn on my ships I put these weapons on to level the playing field not because they give an edge in any situation, removing the energy req on screamers is the least that could be done to make them a bit more viable.
Of course the corvus ultra posi is better in a chase scenario than a large port rocket launcher but that's not the point the point is screamers are shite compared to jacks because of the prox/splash and have a higher level req the extra 4 shots don't make up for it and the energy req... bah find me one of these screamer pilots with their UDV I'll happily take em on with a jackhammer fit WTD and that'll settle it. :}
so I can give em the ol xgx rev C hug of death.
I'd gladly trade double splashback on my armor to make your revc pop via a zero safety fused screamer.
Screamers suck, a select few use them despite the fact they're crap relative to jackhammers,
They are really great as a follow up weapon.
I rocket juggled you with screamers last week. Someone else got the kill shot, but you went from 100% to 10% very fast. just because you are not proficient with them, does not mean others are not.
Some people are crazy good with Gauss. Some people are amazing with rockets. Some people are rail genius. But most people are not amazing with every weapon. Especially without using it a lot. If you are having a hard time using a weapon, just spend some time practicing with it.
Anyways, inc already reduced the energy usage in 2017 in response to a similar thread of yours.
And lastly light missiles (the firefly&yellow jacket) have their speed, damage and firing time increased to match the speed/ammo/endurance of stingrays at 95m/s to make them effective deshielding weapons as it stands both of these missiles are completely worthless relative to the first missile launcher players unlock (the gemini) which deals more damage, has more damage per tube and is easier to detonate on targets because of the high maneuverability and 10m proximity detonation versus contact for the other two.
Here is a video of me deshielding a dent using a rev with stingrays and some of those light missiles you say are completely worthless(some plasma hx at the very end to show that i would be able to do damage even after the tubes are empty).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMlIUiSieyk
I'd gladly trade double splashback on my armor to make your revc pop via a zero safety fused screamer.
Screamers suck, a select few use them despite the fact they're crap relative to jackhammers,
They are really great as a follow up weapon.
I rocket juggled you with screamers last week. Someone else got the kill shot, but you went from 100% to 10% very fast. just because you are not proficient with them, does not mean others are not.
Some people are crazy good with Gauss. Some people are amazing with rockets. Some people are rail genius. But most people are not amazing with every weapon. Especially without using it a lot. If you are having a hard time using a weapon, just spend some time practicing with it.
Anyways, inc already reduced the energy usage in 2017 in response to a similar thread of yours.
And lastly light missiles (the firefly&yellow jacket) have their speed, damage and firing time increased to match the speed/ammo/endurance of stingrays at 95m/s to make them effective deshielding weapons as it stands both of these missiles are completely worthless relative to the first missile launcher players unlock (the gemini) which deals more damage, has more damage per tube and is easier to detonate on targets because of the high maneuverability and 10m proximity detonation versus contact for the other two.
Here is a video of me deshielding a dent using a rev with stingrays and some of those light missiles you say are completely worthless(some plasma hx at the very end to show that i would be able to do damage even after the tubes are empty).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMlIUiSieyk
You woulve done as good a job deshieding that dent with gems if not better or better yet a single perfect stack of stingrays and two HX blasters that said it's more difficult in the latter scenario but you can actually use your full cells power output potential to deal damage... you juggled me with screamers?... hard to believe not to mention I fly extremely cocky If i were to take my sweet time with you I'd be impressed if you landed just one...
yellow jackets aren't complete shit but they really could use a buff to bring them in line with stingrays. fireflies are pathetically shit and have higher level reqs.
I'll be on later i'll take you on in matched screamer loadouts if I feel like being extra mean I'll just use a jack tube, disagreeing that they don't suck is fine (they're less shitty than popcorn or the light port missiles i'll give em that), but questioning my capacity to blow you up with em ain't gonna fly I'll see you in B8.
And you know just as much as I do that removing the safety fuse from any rocket is a much greater buff than increasing the prox/splash against small light stuff that wants to facehug anyway that said I wouldn't mind seeing people issue on their own rockets more often.
(Scratch the thing about the light missile level reqs, that said they still suck buff em!)
yellow jackets aren't complete shit but they really could use a buff to bring them in line with stingrays. fireflies are pathetically shit and have higher level reqs.
I'll be on later i'll take you on in matched screamer loadouts if I feel like being extra mean I'll just use a jack tube, disagreeing that they don't suck is fine (they're less shitty than popcorn or the light port missiles i'll give em that), but questioning my capacity to blow you up with em ain't gonna fly I'll see you in B8.
And you know just as much as I do that removing the safety fuse from any rocket is a much greater buff than increasing the prox/splash against small light stuff that wants to facehug anyway that said I wouldn't mind seeing people issue on their own rockets more often.
(Scratch the thing about the light missile level reqs, that said they still suck buff em!)
You woulve done as good a job deshieding that dent with gems if not better or better yet a single perfect stack
The idea in that video was NOT to use gems. At the time of that video, gems cost crystal, and none of the weapons i used cost any.
The idea in that video was NOT to use gems. At the time of that video, gems cost crystal, and none of the weapons i used cost any.
Right well how's about you log in sometime over the next two weeks and /msg spidey and I'll make it a point of not using screamers, flechette and good ol light missiles on you! ;P
I'd make another post about the Gat cannon HV but if you want to do me a solid you could go find one of the buff threads and bump that one.
I'd make another post about the Gat cannon HV but if you want to do me a solid you could go find one of the buff threads and bump that one.
I keep my forum stuff separate from in game stuff. Less drama that way.
Well I'll maintain that screamers suck and that your reluctance to demonstrate to me otherwise in-game doesn't help your case. ;P
I don't know how difficult it is for the devs to change weapons stats across the board I'll concede that this isn't very important on my list of stuff I'd like to see but how terrible these weapons are is something that has gnawed at me ever since I started playing.
There isn't much variety when you know what works and what doesn't in this game, It would be nice to see more stuff getting buffed to the point where the playing field for addons is more even across the board.
With that said I'm real happy the Hog IV finally got a tiny bit of attention, if it were up to me I wouldn't mind seeing the X1 lose a bit of armor or the rune getting 8cu of cargo space, don't get me started about proms the mkIII should get infiniboost and the skyprom could use a teeny pinch of spintorque but yeah I'm getting ahead of myself here.
The game doesn't desperately need a balance redux but there's some things that really could use changes because of how whacky they are. (The gat cannon HV being one of em)
I don't know how difficult it is for the devs to change weapons stats across the board I'll concede that this isn't very important on my list of stuff I'd like to see but how terrible these weapons are is something that has gnawed at me ever since I started playing.
There isn't much variety when you know what works and what doesn't in this game, It would be nice to see more stuff getting buffed to the point where the playing field for addons is more even across the board.
With that said I'm real happy the Hog IV finally got a tiny bit of attention, if it were up to me I wouldn't mind seeing the X1 lose a bit of armor or the rune getting 8cu of cargo space, don't get me started about proms the mkIII should get infiniboost and the skyprom could use a teeny pinch of spintorque but yeah I'm getting ahead of myself here.
The game doesn't desperately need a balance redux but there's some things that really could use changes because of how whacky they are. (The gat cannon HV being one of em)
If you are sincere about wanting changes, then you need to make a thread for each suggestion. inc ignores threads with multiple suggestions Every time he implements something I have suggested, it has been done that way. So now i making a suggestion to you: do that. When I make suggestion threads with multiple ideas, i may be group them in the subject line (1 of 3, 2 of 3 , 3 of 3). This what what I did with my Deneb suggestions that got implemented last year.
Eh it'll get spammy but at least it'll be well organized spam I guess.