Forums » Suggestions
No Home in Grey till Combat 4
We have for years had new players get excited about Grey before they are ready and home there. They then get "camped" and shot multiple times. The result is too many of them simply quit the game before they even learn it.
My suggestion is to stop them from even homing anywhere except the station they home at when they finish with the training sector and move into Nation Space, at least till they reach Combat 4 and have some experience under their belts.
I know this won't sit well with those who love to camp and get free and easy PK, but we need to do more to keep players than let a few get their "cheap thrills".
The warning when they leave Nation space does no good because few even read that warning and others think they are already an Ace in combat just because they were in a few other games. They really have no business in Grey and this may be the best way of keeping them from the "camping" experience.
The intention of this suggestion is to keep more players playing the game we love.
My suggestion is to stop them from even homing anywhere except the station they home at when they finish with the training sector and move into Nation Space, at least till they reach Combat 4 and have some experience under their belts.
I know this won't sit well with those who love to camp and get free and easy PK, but we need to do more to keep players than let a few get their "cheap thrills".
The warning when they leave Nation space does no good because few even read that warning and others think they are already an Ace in combat just because they were in a few other games. They really have no business in Grey and this may be the best way of keeping them from the "camping" experience.
The intention of this suggestion is to keep more players playing the game we love.
Meh. I think we just need the floodgates to be opened.
-1 I believe all players should be able to work where they like. Plus, I had a level 1 player send themselves to odia m-14 for violating the Valent nfz. That would still need to be possible.
My current plan has been to (forcibly) limit players to their starting Capitol System until Combat 1, and then their Nation until Combat 3.
But, that ties into a whole redux of the new user experience, which is a large and on-going project.
But, that ties into a whole redux of the new user experience, which is a large and on-going project.
Incarnate, I'm curious, what happens then if I were to start a new character, then violate the NFZ at for instance Orion before reaching combat 1? I'd be unable to dock at any stations in UIT space, but also unable to be homed outside UIT space?
inc, if the new player violates your rules, they should experience the result.
+1
To be fair.. people with such low levels get taught a hard lesson by me if I catch them homed in grey.
Might I suggest that this get coupled with a way for experienced players to start a new character that is not bound by this or by the training missions? Some other MMOs use a point system that is applied to an account and allows a player that has achieved a certain level to start a new character past the training missions like perhaps 4/4/4/4/4
To be fair.. people with such low levels get taught a hard lesson by me if I catch them homed in grey.
Might I suggest that this get coupled with a way for experienced players to start a new character that is not bound by this or by the training missions? Some other MMOs use a point system that is applied to an account and allows a player that has achieved a certain level to start a new character past the training missions like perhaps 4/4/4/4/4
I'd be unable to dock at any stations in UIT space, but also unable to be homed outside UIT space?
We would just.. not implement it that way?
My few sentences of future design goals, written here, do not fully encompass every ramification and factor considered in actual implementation.
It's also more challenging to violate a NFZ with Friendly Fire rules in place for the Capitol Systrm. Again, there's a whole redux of the new user experience that is intended, which is way beyond scope to post here (and would take me forever to post and explain).
Might I suggest that this get coupled with a way for experienced players to start a new character that is not bound by this or by the training missions?
That's really a different topic than the one at hand. We can certainly consider that at some future point, in a different thread. But, I have mixed feelings. I don't want rolling a new character to be super arduous, but it shouldn't be trivial either. The latter tends to reward making throw-away characters, which tend to be abused for various and sundry reasons that can be detrimental to the game (abuse, mute and ban avoidance, etc).
We would just.. not implement it that way?
My few sentences of future design goals, written here, do not fully encompass every ramification and factor considered in actual implementation.
It's also more challenging to violate a NFZ with Friendly Fire rules in place for the Capitol Systrm. Again, there's a whole redux of the new user experience that is intended, which is way beyond scope to post here (and would take me forever to post and explain).
Might I suggest that this get coupled with a way for experienced players to start a new character that is not bound by this or by the training missions?
That's really a different topic than the one at hand. We can certainly consider that at some future point, in a different thread. But, I have mixed feelings. I don't want rolling a new character to be super arduous, but it shouldn't be trivial either. The latter tends to reward making throw-away characters, which tend to be abused for various and sundry reasons that can be detrimental to the game (abuse, mute and ban avoidance, etc).
Maybe we need general discussion thread on improving the new player experience so we can just toss ideas back and fourth. It might generate some reasonably implementable solutions.
You're welcome to create that, I'll certainly check it out.
Hi Incarnate, I do understand that you have your own idea behind this, but I do think there is real merit in the original suggestion vs your idea of limiting people to certain spaces.
Right now, a new player can fly to Sedina d14, home there and if they get discovered, they are going to have a bad day leaving that sector. Limiting their jump ability does sound neat, but some would like the opportunity to explore this strange region of space while they have very little, and your idea on how to handle this cuts them off from that, where a licence check before letting them home in (none nation space) stations could actually save a lot of this, and still allow exploration for those that are of this inclination.
If they cannot home in grey, they cannot be station camped there. If they die in Grey and get a trip back to nation space, at least they are somewhat safe after this unpleasant experience and they could go about the rest of their day without fear of getting killed by the same person over and over until they log out.
This really (apart from the game not actually being for them) is what I perceive (I could be very wrong, I understand) is the biggest put off for new players. So anything to mitigate this (low levels being limited to nation space being a bit drastic in my opinion) sooner rather than Soon(TM) would be a welcome change in my honest opinion (and that is all any of my posts are btw, not whining, just opinion). I would personally extend this to none UIT/TPG stations in UiT space, until they are admired. In fact, my counter suggestion would be to only allow players to set home station to places they are admired (until combat 4), which would also cut out a lot of camping in Azek, Nyrius and Verasi. Limiting new players to nation space would only encourage the griefer type to go into nation space more?
Right now, a new player can fly to Sedina d14, home there and if they get discovered, they are going to have a bad day leaving that sector. Limiting their jump ability does sound neat, but some would like the opportunity to explore this strange region of space while they have very little, and your idea on how to handle this cuts them off from that, where a licence check before letting them home in (none nation space) stations could actually save a lot of this, and still allow exploration for those that are of this inclination.
If they cannot home in grey, they cannot be station camped there. If they die in Grey and get a trip back to nation space, at least they are somewhat safe after this unpleasant experience and they could go about the rest of their day without fear of getting killed by the same person over and over until they log out.
This really (apart from the game not actually being for them) is what I perceive (I could be very wrong, I understand) is the biggest put off for new players. So anything to mitigate this (low levels being limited to nation space being a bit drastic in my opinion) sooner rather than Soon(TM) would be a welcome change in my honest opinion (and that is all any of my posts are btw, not whining, just opinion). I would personally extend this to none UIT/TPG stations in UiT space, until they are admired. In fact, my counter suggestion would be to only allow players to set home station to places they are admired (until combat 4), which would also cut out a lot of camping in Azek, Nyrius and Verasi. Limiting new players to nation space would only encourage the griefer type to go into nation space more?
Limiting new players to nation space would only encourage the griefer type to go into nation space more?
Well, obviously we also make the barriers to griefing significantly higher in Nation Space. As I recently commented here.
Part of the problem is the number of newbies who rage-quit the moment they get killed for the first time. This is not something the user-base would know much about, because once you kill that newbie, you just don't see them again. It isn't "obvious" like the station-camped person being angry on chat. Instead they just silently leave.
This Suggestion is a reasonable solution to mitigate a tendency towards station camping and the like. But, I think station-camping is better dealt with in a more generic fashion entirely, that isn't specific to newbies (like a public transit system, that only moves pilots, etc).
But, best-case, this does not have any impact on the confused newbie who gets shot in grayspace proper, and then leaves the game because they don't understand that death isn't very important.
The best I could come up with, to teach them that, is a series of missions and tasks that keep them locked into particular space for a period of time.
If they work towards a goal of being released into the "total" game, there are also a lot of opportunities to mitigate their expectations around risk and the ramifications of dying.
Anyway, I don't have a problem with the idea of some "stage" where they can leave Nation space, but cannot home there. It just doesn't solve the same problems that I'm trying to mitigate.
Well, obviously we also make the barriers to griefing significantly higher in Nation Space. As I recently commented here.
Part of the problem is the number of newbies who rage-quit the moment they get killed for the first time. This is not something the user-base would know much about, because once you kill that newbie, you just don't see them again. It isn't "obvious" like the station-camped person being angry on chat. Instead they just silently leave.
This Suggestion is a reasonable solution to mitigate a tendency towards station camping and the like. But, I think station-camping is better dealt with in a more generic fashion entirely, that isn't specific to newbies (like a public transit system, that only moves pilots, etc).
But, best-case, this does not have any impact on the confused newbie who gets shot in grayspace proper, and then leaves the game because they don't understand that death isn't very important.
The best I could come up with, to teach them that, is a series of missions and tasks that keep them locked into particular space for a period of time.
If they work towards a goal of being released into the "total" game, there are also a lot of opportunities to mitigate their expectations around risk and the ramifications of dying.
Anyway, I don't have a problem with the idea of some "stage" where they can leave Nation space, but cannot home there. It just doesn't solve the same problems that I'm trying to mitigate.
Ah, Yea, I understand, so it is more about showing them that yea, death sucks but it doesn't mean much. Anyway, thanks for the detailed reply! Good luck with that, hm. It is already shoved in the face a lot, so...
Maybe add a "re-home at nation capitol" option for characters under combat 3? That way they can avoid being station camped, atleast when they are new.
^^^^ this ... "re-home at nation capitol for characters under combat 3".. this is actually an awesome idea. How about a blinking warning on the edge of screen that you are in a zone that exceeds your license level? These things create an expectation of death as well as a way to get back easily.
You gave me an idea haxmeister. Make the music change to something very ominous too.