With the recent update, if you get (some would say 'earn') the 24-hour temp kos it's for 24-hours "Game Time."

I think this is perfect for the NFZ temp-kos for 15 minutes (it eliminates those that just logged to an alt for 15 minutes), but not so much for the 24-hour temp kos.

If a player only plays for 3-4 hours a night, maybe 3-4 nights a week, it could take a couple of weeks to shake the temp-kos. That person is then faced with one of a couple options:

1) deal with the temp-kos and play normally, just not going to the kos station.
2) keep that toon logged in for 24 hours (or a couple of 12 hour nights).
3) quit playing.

I chose #2, which negates the intended punitive consequence. It was easy enough to just log in with an android device, plug it in the wall, and ignore it while I slept/worked the next day.

But, I get the need for a consequence that's meaningful. I think a newb, that spent a lot of time grinding his/her first toon would become quicily discouraged if they got the temp kos (I trick newbs into this a lot). Would they quit? Danged if I know. That's something for Inc/Ray to pull metrics and evaluate.

I propose one of the following:

1) keeping the NFZ violation temp-kos at 15-minutes "Game Time," set the 24-hour, 3rd non-hated temp-kos to 24 Realtime Hours.

or, 2) keeping the NFZ violation temp-kos at 15-minutes "Game Time," reduce the 3rd non-hated kill temp-kos to 6 hours Game Time. That would be roughly 2-3 days for someone playing 2-4 hours/day af few times a week.

Also, if I could ask, what is the definitive algorithm to trigger the 24-hour, non-hated kill temp-kos? I ask, because I tested it with Wooja the other day and got it for Valent after just 2 kills. I hadn't even been on in several days until then. I thought I was going to have to kill him one more time. But when we did it at Axia, I was able to kill him 2 times without triggering it.

This was on Wednesday night. On Monday night I did kill two people in an Axia station and 2 at a Valent station.

its three kills in seven days at the same faction, or six nfz violations in 24h..

traders/miners/friendlies have risk 24h a day 7 days a week at stations, in nfz, in open space.. virtually everywhere. pirates have limited risk at all and have the option not to kill at a station or in an nfz but do it anyway.. the existing risk discourages very few. additionally, standing is trivial to recover.

until standing is more difficult to recover/attain: -1

edit: for what is likely the first time in a very very long time, pirates are actually seeing some form of reprocussion and risk in open space due to the increased convoy traffic.. being kos with a faction means having to look over their shoulder for fleets of ships in open space, at stations, or coming through the wormhole they are sitting at. they are facing the same threat that friendly players see every single day, and its geniunely about time. kos is *almost meaningful at this point. pirating shouldnt be easy.

+1 and make faction obey other factions faction standings. They shouldn't shoot admired players in other faction space.

I'm with Scotia on this one. Piracy has had either no repercussions or easily gamed/avoided penalties. I see these penalties as a good thing for vets.

However, I do see how a newbie may be discouraged form playing if tricked into earning a significant KoS time (15 min should be no drama, 24 hours might be though), so that may be something to consider further.

well, the main trick was pcbing people in the nfz and then getting them to shoot back.. but pcbs flag you revengable these days.. sure, there are other straight up verbal trickery and things i may not know about but.. that ones dealt with.

and of course kb is gonna +1 it cos he wants to pirate in nation and is currently suffering the same fate he puts on others. its ok for them to be kos by him and not able to leave a station, but the instant the heat turns the other way its not a good thing at all.

these guys are flying around in light fighters, with weapons.. so if they get engaged they can either run or fight.. the traders dont have either option. if piracy was kept to open space this would be a non-issue, meanwhile those with the stuff it takes to pirate at stations are still doing their thing. one kills you, the other collects your stuff..

I'm not asking to nerf it completely.

I'm just pointing out that 24 hours "game time" is really 2-3 weeks for the average player. It's a week or two for me, and I think I'm on more than average.

I think a 6-hour Temp KOS would have the desired effect. (still 2-3 days)

OR

Just make the 24hr Temp KOS Real time, leaving the 15 minute NFZ violation as Game Time.

they wouldnt be catching tkos at all if they werent killing people in the nfz or at stations repeatedly. its a matter of them being able to prevent their own problems and follow the player out of the sector.. OR.. if the kill is worth it, they take that hit and know whats coming when the counter gets too high.

the time problem works both ways, people invest a great deal of time in mining, hauling, manufacturing and moving resources around only to be undermined in nothing more than a moment, at which point they have to do it all over again. i dont see any sympathy going around for their time. if i spend 12 hours building capship parts then lose those parts.. guess what.. i gotta sink another 12 hours in. i dont get the luxury of sitting at a station for 12 hours doing nothing until everything is ok. i have to go work.

I'm not talking about the NFZ.

There are nationalist reasons for shooting in subfaction space, but as I mentioned earlier, I've observed my share of newbs killing in faction space.

With 7 full days to only shoot 3, it creeps up on them. They don't know why they have what seems to them to be an insurmountable temp kos because they don't remember the other kills.

My suggestion is only about preventing new players from abandoning the game since 24 "game hours" is 3-4 weeks long. And I don't want to feel bad for the 3-5 minutes that I do when I trick them in to killing me 3 times in a night (never mind 7 days).

But I get your desire to punish those that are willing to take what you work hard for. I tell those newbs "Scotianight sent me." :)

+1

The game was meant to be PvP oriented, this is "Vendetta Online" people. We already have strong repercussions in nation space, including a "safe space" for noobs and those who play Vendetta but don't want to PvP like Scotiaknight (but like to hang out in PvP zones).

I disagreed with having drastic penalties at subfactions to begin with. I felt like the concept of "grey space" is undermined by having so many rules of engagement. Why are there warnings about entering grey space?? Scotiaknight could do 99% of everything you want to do in the game without ever visiting a subfaction station in grey.

As for the idea of "pirating in open space" suggested by Scotiaknight, that is absurd. You do not fly through "open space" to get to your destination, but rather you jump from the station sector to the wormhole and on. There are not actually many opportunities to catch a player and honestly there are only about 2 most of the time... the station and the wormhole. It is already becoming a lopsided risk/reward for engaging a player at a station (too which I vote against).. what is next? Shall we now make grey space wormhole sectors give 2 week faction repercussions? How about just make it so that a player jumps directly from one station to another??? Then we can just eliminate piracy altogether and you can take the precious role play of "dangerous grey space" and throw it out the window with all the players who like the challenge of it.

The penalties should not be so high that a person just leaves their game logged in all night... that is counter intuitive to the point and honestly is the method I openly recommend to my guild mates. The 15 minute penalty is always felt because you sit anxiously in game waiting for it to end while privately hoping you didn't miscalculate how many kills you had vs the new faction standing rules...(will it go back to normal after 15mins or did I kill too many people this week???)

Also ScotiaKnight faction standing is not "easy to recover" as you suggest. You just fail to understand the amount of preparations that pirate players put into faction recovery work in advance. Pirates often keep large quantities of odd commodities at certain stations so they can recover quickly... this recovery seems quick at least, to the onlooker... but you don't realize that the pirate spent hours before moving commodities so that the recovery would be quick when it happens. the time is still there, you just don't typically see it. 2-3 hours of preparations for faction loss due to anticipated player kills at station, 30 minutes of applying those preparations to recover after the kills are complete.

The TKOS is an affront to the preparation work done by pirates to recover standing after kills. It needs to be nerfed slightly. Incarnate's realization that this method would undermine the preparations of pirates for faction loss was actually very accurate. It is just too heavy for those who are not gaming addicts or who have regular jobs.