Forums » Suggestions
TU mines should be stealth
Updates in the game have resulted in NPCs being able to target and and destroy ALL mines. Including the one mine in the game that costs 500k to reload (per mine). I suggest that since this mine costs so much to deploy, that this mine should be exempt from being seen by bots and players on radar.
It should not show up on the radar at all. If a pilot or npc is close enough to see it on radar, it will have already detonated.
It should not show up on the radar at all. If a pilot or npc is close enough to see it on radar, it will have already detonated.
I think it would be better if NPCs didn't have that ability to begin with. If we can't target mines they shouldn't be able to.
NPC should be able to avoid but not target mines
Players can shoot mines, and blow them up. NPCs can also shoot mines, and blow them up.
For anyone who wants to derail this thread into a general discussion of how NPCs shouldn't ever be blowing up mines: feel free to not bother, and instead get used to the reality where NPCs may blow up your mines.
For the actual on-topic issue of excluding TU mines specifically, I would need some kind of actual reason for why this would enhance or improve the game, or what particular problem it is solving?
I don't think we have a general rule here that "expensive things should be harder to destroy". And the TU mine is expensive because it does tremedous damage.
What circumstance caused this Suggestion to come about?
For anyone who wants to derail this thread into a general discussion of how NPCs shouldn't ever be blowing up mines: feel free to not bother, and instead get used to the reality where NPCs may blow up your mines.
For the actual on-topic issue of excluding TU mines specifically, I would need some kind of actual reason for why this would enhance or improve the game, or what particular problem it is solving?
I don't think we have a general rule here that "expensive things should be harder to destroy". And the TU mine is expensive because it does tremedous damage.
What circumstance caused this Suggestion to come about?
I think it's because it's super hard to manually shoot mine we can't target, while the NPCs can just auto aim snipe the fuck out of mines lol
The suggestion then is that because the NPCs are more accurate than players when shooting mines, that it be easier for players to target mines?
@ironlord
Well lets say for the sake of argument Incarnate gave the NPCs a handicap in clearing mines so that it took longer. The mines would still be cleared, eventually, no? And straight up hiding the mines on radar has pretty obvious exploitation opportunity.
While I have a problem with their ability to more-easily-than-us take out mines (i.e. via presumed targeting and auto-aim utilization), I don't see it as a major issue, and I certainly don't see how making TU's invisible on radar to players and NPCs alike is a solution.
Well lets say for the sake of argument Incarnate gave the NPCs a handicap in clearing mines so that it took longer. The mines would still be cleared, eventually, no? And straight up hiding the mines on radar has pretty obvious exploitation opportunity.
While I have a problem with their ability to more-easily-than-us take out mines (i.e. via presumed targeting and auto-aim utilization), I don't see it as a major issue, and I certainly don't see how making TU's invisible on radar to players and NPCs alike is a solution.
looks like Incarnate changed his mind over time :p
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/32220
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/32220
looks like Incarnate changed his mind over time :p
1) There is a significant difference between:
"They should appear as gray dots such as asteroids until you can come close enough to scan them."
and
"It should not show up on the radar at all."
2) There is an even more significant difference between making a change for all mines, versus making it for just one, special type of mine.
3) Lastly, the context of the suggestion is completely different. One is largely a suggestion around PvP gameplay, and the other seemingly stems from a recent desire to nerf NPCs.
1) There is a significant difference between:
"They should appear as gray dots such as asteroids until you can come close enough to scan them."
and
"It should not show up on the radar at all."
2) There is an even more significant difference between making a change for all mines, versus making it for just one, special type of mine.
3) Lastly, the context of the suggestion is completely different. One is largely a suggestion around PvP gameplay, and the other seemingly stems from a recent desire to nerf NPCs.
Does this mean we could still have the strange grey dots soon(tm) ? :-)
You should consider asking on the other thread that you linked, and not derailing this one, please.
I apologize for the late reply.
The BioCom Miniature Teller-Ulam is a manufactured munition. A few messages back you mentioned that the cost of the mine is due to the damage it does. I’m not sure if that is entirely correct. Let me explain:
A TU mine launcher holds two mines and has the potential to do 30,000 damage. Sounds like a lot right? Well the avalon torpedo launcher holds four torpedos, and has the potential to do 60,000 damage. The cost to fully reload an avalon launcher is only a few thousand, whereas the cost to reload a TU mine launcher is 1,000,000 credits. An avalon launcher has the potential to do double the damage of a TU mine launcher, and is much cheaper to reload. For pure damage potential, the avalon is far more powerful. If high damage potential was to equal high credit cost, then avalons would be far more expensive to reload.
The real benefit in the biocom mine is its longevity. It has a lifetime of 14400 seconds. A wormhole can be temporarily blockaded for a few hours with a some mines. Or a mine can be hidden behind a roid in a storm. Except none of this is true now. Four hour times are rarely seen because npc’s just kill the mines right away. And we can’t hide the mines behind a roid, because they show up on radar (they are not hidden by roids).
Ships happen to be hidden by roids, but for some reason mines are not. Maybe there is some transponder for each mine and an opposing ship picks up it as not being friendly, so it gets listed on radar. If this is the case, then for a high a value, high damage (and kind of clandestined ) manufactured weapon, we should be able to disable this transponder, thus blinding it from our own radars, and that of our enemies.
In this example screenshot, the the TU mine is on the other side of the roid. But the mine shows up perfectly on the scope.
The mine being hidden on the scope would not prevent npcs or players from using Mk I eyeball from discovering and destroying it.
The BioCom Miniature Teller-Ulam is a manufactured munition. A few messages back you mentioned that the cost of the mine is due to the damage it does. I’m not sure if that is entirely correct. Let me explain:
A TU mine launcher holds two mines and has the potential to do 30,000 damage. Sounds like a lot right? Well the avalon torpedo launcher holds four torpedos, and has the potential to do 60,000 damage. The cost to fully reload an avalon launcher is only a few thousand, whereas the cost to reload a TU mine launcher is 1,000,000 credits. An avalon launcher has the potential to do double the damage of a TU mine launcher, and is much cheaper to reload. For pure damage potential, the avalon is far more powerful. If high damage potential was to equal high credit cost, then avalons would be far more expensive to reload.
The real benefit in the biocom mine is its longevity. It has a lifetime of 14400 seconds. A wormhole can be temporarily blockaded for a few hours with a some mines. Or a mine can be hidden behind a roid in a storm. Except none of this is true now. Four hour times are rarely seen because npc’s just kill the mines right away. And we can’t hide the mines behind a roid, because they show up on radar (they are not hidden by roids).
Ships happen to be hidden by roids, but for some reason mines are not. Maybe there is some transponder for each mine and an opposing ship picks up it as not being friendly, so it gets listed on radar. If this is the case, then for a high a value, high damage (and kind of clandestined ) manufactured weapon, we should be able to disable this transponder, thus blinding it from our own radars, and that of our enemies.
In this example screenshot, the the TU mine is on the other side of the roid. But the mine shows up perfectly on the scope.
The mine being hidden on the scope would not prevent npcs or players from using Mk I eyeball from discovering and destroying it.