Currently there are pilots who are playing this game with satellite internet. They are getting pings of over 1000ms. If those pilots wish to mine, then whatever. But if they wish to engage in combat against other players, that is not ok. Any pilot with a ping of over 600ms should do zero damage to bots and players. This is the only fair solution to this problem

+1

+1

As annoying as they are, we cannot deny them the game like this. ~some~ kind of mitigation feature in pvp should exist [not to this degree], but let these pilots fight npcs all they like.

I believe the network currently favors pilots with lower pings as it stands. I'm against further machinations to disadvantage players with subpar hardware.

What would you suggest as appropriate mitigation Luxen?

We both know who this was. I'd like to point out that i say time and TIME again, I do not PvP. But if YOU choose to attack ME, that's on you, lad. Also, Why bots? How am i to level up hmm? You act like it's said person's fault when you attack them and they fight back.

So users of satellite internet should be allowed to be invulnerable? That doesn't seem sane.

lol i barely did damage. I also took 5-6 deaths to the turrets that i couldn't remotely see anywhere near me. You act like i have an advantage, whereas what you see me do on your screen is exactly what i see on mine. I don't pvp because 1: i jump on opponents screen.
2: they jump on my screen, most of the time the hits i land don't even register. So how about we take this to Incarnate as originally intended by your pal Monday Fundie and yourself? I can't even bot effeciently because the bots rubber band everywhere and kill me with invisible shots. I don't see WHY i'd do this on purpose. So yeah, We'll just take it to the devs as intended.

You guys need to drop any personal back-and-forth BS.

1) We are definitely going to introduce mitigating factors to improve the situation for PvP.

2) We are not likely to use the suggestion in the OP.

It is possible to discuss this without making it personal, and it's actually far more relevant to do so.

Additionally, I fail to see the harm in letting people in far-away countries and on bad connections engage in botting. It certainly isn't a picnic for them either.

As I've mentioned before, on other threads, #1 is not a trivial problem to solve, without making the game worse, for everyone. It's a fairly nuanced issue.

I'm open to reasoned and un-emotional discussion on the subject. Content that doesn't align to that may cause people to get ejected from Suggestions, permanently.

I suppose one of the best ideas would be some kind of lag indicator, to at least give us an idea on if we should engage or not. Information is half the battle, and someone cannot know you are laggy unless they have encountered said pilot before.

https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/29964

Honestly, removing the ability to damage, but be damaged is obviously just giving this "advantage" from one party, to the other.
Make it to where you can not be damaged nor damage? Bam you have devhax = bad idea. Yoda is getting somewhere with that idea, seems a good temporary solution until an actual fix is implemented.

@WAF: That's not necessarily what i was insinuating, what i meant was if 1 party is running about with no intentions to be combatant, gets chased, party 2 complains about runners, so you turn around and they complain you're laggy, Basically, Sometimes things happen for damn good reasons, and when you complain and the reason becomes apparent, if you complain somr more, it's on you for provoking it.

I edited or deleted posts that violated our Be Nice forum rules.

-1. I love kicking the shit out of laggers >:D

laggards should burn, full stop. If your network or hardware shits the bed, thats on you.

I haven't logged in for years, but if I recall the problem is that the netcode allows people to teleport once they have enough dropped packets/higher pings.

The best solution would be to enforce a consistent/sane trajectory and momentum when the ping gets bad. The server should enforce the laws of physics despite what the client says. (You used to be able to teleport into astroids by pulling the plug and then reconnecting - because the server doesn't check the legitimacy of a player's location.)

woop woop

+1 to zamzx ziks solution. That should solve a majority of lag issues in fight. The consistent trajectory ensures a person would quickly be able to take out his opponent incase they lagged.

zamzx zik: +1, this is a very good start to fix it. after 350ms+ (excluding packet loss) the netcode fails to do a proper job anyway :(

While I do like BG's idea, how from a technical point of view, would it work? I mean, I see what he is saying, but how? I mean, I suppose you could do this if the net protocol was changed to TCP instead of UDP then it would kind of happen naturally for the client with packetloss, as this would freeze all communication until either communication resumes or a timeout period is reached, at which point the server would tell the client where it should be if no other input was received. This sounds good but in practice causes other problems. It would use a lot more traffic for one thing, as packets that are lost would need to be re-transmitted or a wait state would happen, which causes even more lag, and can actually cause the server to make other connected clients wait too. (and this rubber banding it causes for the client can render a game unplayable - not a solution).

As UDP doesn't rely on packets being received in the correct order, nor does it rely on actually receiving them at all, how do you detect when a packet is dropped or simply late? You have to wait to see if it is received, request a re-transmission and sanity check the reply. So what does the server/client do while this is happening? Wait again? This also causes rubber-banding when used incorrectly, and can cause more problems again (like teleportation). So, BG, how do you propose GS fix this problem that has existed since the start of Internet gaming? A good idea is good, and I am not trying to take away from what you are saying. A discussion on how it could work might be helpful.

He isn't wrong. I've considered the same solution, for years. But, it's a challenging thing to actually engineer; you don't want to be too heavy-handed with it, and there are a lot of heuristics to tune for detection and reaction. Also, if it happens to the poor guy playing from South Africa who just wants to bot in peace, he ends up getting slaughtered due to a moment of bad latency. So, then there are more heuristics required around player proximity and so on.. it starts to get complicated.

In answer to your technical questions.. we have timestamps and sequencing in the protocol, and we already know how to handle out-of-order packets. Some packets don't require re-transmission, when they're simply an update of position/orientation, at that point all you really care about is the timestamp: what information is "most recent". The server could "grab" people and enforce a linear trajectory when their latency delta or jitter gets over X, but man.. it could really make the game pretty unplayable for some people, if it were not done pretty conservatively.

And, it would be pretty annoying to implement. And I'm not sure it's the best solution. But, I'm aware of the notion of the idea.. I also had it a long time ago.