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This is a perfect example, SR_7134_HELLCAT.
edit: Heritage is a mixed bag. Sort it out. Keep the good, out with the bad. Keep up with the times.
edit: Heritage is a mixed bag. Sort it out. Keep the good, out with the bad. Keep up with the times.
Please remember that this is the Suggestion forums and personal comments are not appropriate. I had to make some ridiculous edits. Please stick to discussing the suggestion at hand.
FWIW: I live and work in one of the most diverse cities in the USA. I work very closely with people from a variety of races, religions, cultures and backgrounds. I can tell you this: the only time and place I am aware of where a slur can be used is when it is a term that the community has taken back, and the term is used by a member of that community, in that community, and generally with no one outside of the community around. Even then, people within the community can be divided about using the term at all. Those outside the community can expect a negative reaction if they use the term.
VO is a game that caters to an international audience, thus slurs are never okay here.
FWIW: I live and work in one of the most diverse cities in the USA. I work very closely with people from a variety of races, religions, cultures and backgrounds. I can tell you this: the only time and place I am aware of where a slur can be used is when it is a term that the community has taken back, and the term is used by a member of that community, in that community, and generally with no one outside of the community around. Even then, people within the community can be divided about using the term at all. Those outside the community can expect a negative reaction if they use the term.
VO is a game that caters to an international audience, thus slurs are never okay here.
ok, I will try again and see if it survive an edit.
Modern display of the Confederate battle flag ... has long been controversial in the United States, due to the flag's longstanding associations with racism, slavery, segregation, white supremacy, and treason.
In saying this in public, the public reading it can be aware of this information, without each one having to be told individually, one at a time. Sometimes mass communication covers ground far faster that you would ever even attempt to cover otherwise. Censoring mass communication, can potentially significant reduce the transfer of appropriate information.
Edit: The topic of this thread is censorship. Some topics should be shut down, but with an explanation of why it is not an appropriate topic, or position on that topic, so people can adjust to that standard. You could end up censoring the explanation.
Modern display of the Confederate battle flag ... has long been controversial in the United States, due to the flag's longstanding associations with racism, slavery, segregation, white supremacy, and treason.
In saying this in public, the public reading it can be aware of this information, without each one having to be told individually, one at a time. Sometimes mass communication covers ground far faster that you would ever even attempt to cover otherwise. Censoring mass communication, can potentially significant reduce the transfer of appropriate information.
Edit: The topic of this thread is censorship. Some topics should be shut down, but with an explanation of why it is not an appropriate topic, or position on that topic, so people can adjust to that standard. You could end up censoring the explanation.
Roda, there are no Confederate flags in VO. This thread is about chat filtering. If you have something constructive to add to that discussion please do so. We already heard that you are against any sort of censorship.
Edit: The topic of this thread is censorship. Some topics should be shut down, but with an explanation of why it is not an appropriate topic, or position on that topic, so people can adjust to that standard. You could end up censoring the explanation.
Vendetta Online is not here to deliver mass-communications, nor is it here to educate the public, like Wikipedia. There are a lot of things appropriate for Wikipedia that are explicitly not appropriate here, because our goal is fundamentally to serve as a form of accessible entertainment to people.
There are only a small handful of words I would apply to an auto-"censorship" list, but these are sufficiently ill-advised that I see zero negative value in removing them entirely from the game. I don't care what the "reason" is for the discussion. Perhaps it's a vibrant academic discussion of the history of culture and language.. that's fantastic, I'll bet they can probably have that discussion without using said words.
However, if they want to have a debate including the usage of said words, I'm sure they can also make use of a zillion other forms of communications media.. but not my game.
Speech here has never been 'free", and never will be. This is a completely closed construct, owned by my company. The policies will change as-needed, based on what is appraised by its CEO to be the most valid then-current strategy, aligned to our goals.
Our primary goal, relevant to this topic, is to provide a welcoming environment for people of all backgrounds and lifestyles.
Unfortunately, this is constantly in conflict with the "goals" of certain troll-ish people who mainly want to "trigger" people as much as possible, and who find the usage of certain language as an effective means of doing so. More tools to eliminate said bad-actors, and educate those who might use language "accidentally" or without thought, should align people to better behaviour. It's a win-win.
Now.. Roda, if your main concern is "false positives": People using a term in a discussion where it might be considered culturally appropriate (let's say.. two black people talking to one-another in-game?), hey I can understand a desire not to apply too much of a heavy-hand on an "automated" basis against someone who did not intend ill.
At present, I'm only thinking we could pop up a notification warning people to not use these kinds of terms, and that dis-respectful and inappropriate language would result in administrative action. Maybe the second time they tried to do it, it might automatically mute them for a few minutes, and submit a related report. It seems like this would be a sufficiently easy-going to let a new person figure things out, without being too harsh on the new individual.
Again, I'm not looking to use this for generalized "swear words" or anything like that, only a very-few high-intensity inappropriate terms.
Vendetta Online is not here to deliver mass-communications, nor is it here to educate the public, like Wikipedia. There are a lot of things appropriate for Wikipedia that are explicitly not appropriate here, because our goal is fundamentally to serve as a form of accessible entertainment to people.
There are only a small handful of words I would apply to an auto-"censorship" list, but these are sufficiently ill-advised that I see zero negative value in removing them entirely from the game. I don't care what the "reason" is for the discussion. Perhaps it's a vibrant academic discussion of the history of culture and language.. that's fantastic, I'll bet they can probably have that discussion without using said words.
However, if they want to have a debate including the usage of said words, I'm sure they can also make use of a zillion other forms of communications media.. but not my game.
Speech here has never been 'free", and never will be. This is a completely closed construct, owned by my company. The policies will change as-needed, based on what is appraised by its CEO to be the most valid then-current strategy, aligned to our goals.
Our primary goal, relevant to this topic, is to provide a welcoming environment for people of all backgrounds and lifestyles.
Unfortunately, this is constantly in conflict with the "goals" of certain troll-ish people who mainly want to "trigger" people as much as possible, and who find the usage of certain language as an effective means of doing so. More tools to eliminate said bad-actors, and educate those who might use language "accidentally" or without thought, should align people to better behaviour. It's a win-win.
Now.. Roda, if your main concern is "false positives": People using a term in a discussion where it might be considered culturally appropriate (let's say.. two black people talking to one-another in-game?), hey I can understand a desire not to apply too much of a heavy-hand on an "automated" basis against someone who did not intend ill.
At present, I'm only thinking we could pop up a notification warning people to not use these kinds of terms, and that dis-respectful and inappropriate language would result in administrative action. Maybe the second time they tried to do it, it might automatically mute them for a few minutes, and submit a related report. It seems like this would be a sufficiently easy-going to let a new person figure things out, without being too harsh on the new individual.
Again, I'm not looking to use this for generalized "swear words" or anything like that, only a very-few high-intensity inappropriate terms.
Incarnate stated:
"There are only a small handful of words I would apply to an auto-"censorship" list, but these are sufficiently ill-advised that I see zero negative value in removing them entirely from the game. I don't care what the "reason" is for the discussion.
..
Again, I'm not looking to use this for generalized "swear words" or anything like that, only a very-few high-intensity inappropriate terms."
As I've mentioned before, we have a RoC (see below) that forbids profanity, but a profanity filter that is user-toggleable. You have stated that only a handful of words would be auto-censored, so that leaves us with the rest of the words being optional and subject to our existing "if you don't like to hear profanity then turn your filter on" approach.
I suggest:
1) Consider altering the RoC profanity policy to match our practice.
2) Consider making official my practice of straddling the RoC/filter issue by forbidding profanity directed AT users. This way it would be acceptable to say on 100: Whistler, stop dropping so many f*cking l-mines!", but not acceptable to say "Whistler, you #ssh*l#, stop dropping so many f*cking l-mines!". I think this is a good practice because it helps decrease toxicity without feeling as oppressive as a complete ban on profanity might.
RULES OF CONDUCT
...
You may not use any sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive language.
...
1.1 PLAY NICE POLICIES - ACTIVITY WITHIN VENDETTA ONLINE
...
Foul language is not permitted, in any language.
Excessive use of foul language in an inappropriate context, including swear words, real-world racial slurs, and other language that is not consistent with the science fiction environment and designed to hurt, will be considered a disruption. The existence of the filter (game options) is not a license to be profane.
"There are only a small handful of words I would apply to an auto-"censorship" list, but these are sufficiently ill-advised that I see zero negative value in removing them entirely from the game. I don't care what the "reason" is for the discussion.
..
Again, I'm not looking to use this for generalized "swear words" or anything like that, only a very-few high-intensity inappropriate terms."
As I've mentioned before, we have a RoC (see below) that forbids profanity, but a profanity filter that is user-toggleable. You have stated that only a handful of words would be auto-censored, so that leaves us with the rest of the words being optional and subject to our existing "if you don't like to hear profanity then turn your filter on" approach.
I suggest:
1) Consider altering the RoC profanity policy to match our practice.
2) Consider making official my practice of straddling the RoC/filter issue by forbidding profanity directed AT users. This way it would be acceptable to say on 100: Whistler, stop dropping so many f*cking l-mines!", but not acceptable to say "Whistler, you #ssh*l#, stop dropping so many f*cking l-mines!". I think this is a good practice because it helps decrease toxicity without feeling as oppressive as a complete ban on profanity might.
RULES OF CONDUCT
...
You may not use any sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive language.
...
1.1 PLAY NICE POLICIES - ACTIVITY WITHIN VENDETTA ONLINE
...
Foul language is not permitted, in any language.
Excessive use of foul language in an inappropriate context, including swear words, real-world racial slurs, and other language that is not consistent with the science fiction environment and designed to hurt, will be considered a disruption. The existence of the filter (game options) is not a license to be profane.
+1 Incarnate. Seems reasonable to me.