Forums » Suggestions
Change respawn behavior to reduce combat toxicity
This is an observation I've had for a while but I've had trouble putting into a cohesive suggestion, but since this is a high-profile topic at the moment I'm going to give it a shot.
I have observed that chat toxicity between boastful players generally occurs following combat. It generally occurs after one or more players die and then respawn immediately. A few examples would be:
1. Player dies in 1:1 combat, and respawns at station, undocks, and then tries to kill their attacker who is traveling to the same station to repair after a successful fight. The fight then spills over to 100 as the players insult each other repeatedly.
2. Player dies in a furball and then jumps back into the battle while people are still fighting. The team that just lost a player turbos around waiting for their comrade to return and the team that scored the kill becomes irritated that their hard-won progress is negated by death having no meaningful impact to group battles. Eventually one side loses a pilot or two due to boredom or real life commitments and the non-resolved furball spills over to 100 as both sides insult each other and make their case for who won the furball based on derogatory descriptions of the other side's behavior, kill/death ratio, lack of talent, etc.
3. Player homes in grey against all advice to the contrary. They get killed, respawn at D14, and then proceed to get re-slaughtered over and over because they cannot buy a ship fast enough to escape. Player turns to chat to berate their attacker and it descends into vitriol as the new player becomes increasingly irritated and veteran players continue to insult the new player for homing in grey.
There are other examples, but the common factor here is that death in VO means nothing. In twitch style games, it is common to have a respawn timer that prevents dead players from rejoining the battle immediately. It might be a 60 second timer, it might allow them to respawn further away immediately, etc. There are a number of ways that respawns or battle rejoins could be delayed. Introducing this delay would give the side that scores a kill a more meaningful combat advantage and would give the person who scored a kill in 1:1 combat a chance to repair without being blasted by their opponent coming out of the station in a fresh ship.
Creating some sort of delay or respawn distance would give people a chance to cool down after a fight. If they choose to jump back into battle, they would do so with a more level head. If a respawn distance was implemented it would help prevent new players from getting stuck in grey by shifting their respawn location to another station or sector. This could be a behavior that is limited to being killed by a player so it would not impact players dying in NPC combat.
I have observed that chat toxicity between boastful players generally occurs following combat. It generally occurs after one or more players die and then respawn immediately. A few examples would be:
1. Player dies in 1:1 combat, and respawns at station, undocks, and then tries to kill their attacker who is traveling to the same station to repair after a successful fight. The fight then spills over to 100 as the players insult each other repeatedly.
2. Player dies in a furball and then jumps back into the battle while people are still fighting. The team that just lost a player turbos around waiting for their comrade to return and the team that scored the kill becomes irritated that their hard-won progress is negated by death having no meaningful impact to group battles. Eventually one side loses a pilot or two due to boredom or real life commitments and the non-resolved furball spills over to 100 as both sides insult each other and make their case for who won the furball based on derogatory descriptions of the other side's behavior, kill/death ratio, lack of talent, etc.
3. Player homes in grey against all advice to the contrary. They get killed, respawn at D14, and then proceed to get re-slaughtered over and over because they cannot buy a ship fast enough to escape. Player turns to chat to berate their attacker and it descends into vitriol as the new player becomes increasingly irritated and veteran players continue to insult the new player for homing in grey.
There are other examples, but the common factor here is that death in VO means nothing. In twitch style games, it is common to have a respawn timer that prevents dead players from rejoining the battle immediately. It might be a 60 second timer, it might allow them to respawn further away immediately, etc. There are a number of ways that respawns or battle rejoins could be delayed. Introducing this delay would give the side that scores a kill a more meaningful combat advantage and would give the person who scored a kill in 1:1 combat a chance to repair without being blasted by their opponent coming out of the station in a fresh ship.
Creating some sort of delay or respawn distance would give people a chance to cool down after a fight. If they choose to jump back into battle, they would do so with a more level head. If a respawn distance was implemented it would help prevent new players from getting stuck in grey by shifting their respawn location to another station or sector. This could be a behavior that is limited to being killed by a player so it would not impact players dying in NPC combat.
Interesting.
Regarding respawn distance, how would that be decided? Back to a different station in the system that one is not hated at? Back to the nearest other station that one has good standing with? What's the best resolution that is the least likely to be exploited somehow?
Regarding respawn distance, how would that be decided? Back to a different station in the system that one is not hated at? Back to the nearest other station that one has good standing with? What's the best resolution that is the least likely to be exploited somehow?
So you think trapping people in a station after death with nothing to do but chat is going to reduce toxicity? Seems to me it would increase the opportunity for people to be nasty on 100.
That, and it put a major damper on the thrill of intense group PVP (and make other things, like station taking, Deneb battles, Hive skirms, etc, much more difficult).
That, and it put a major damper on the thrill of intense group PVP (and make other things, like station taking, Deneb battles, Hive skirms, etc, much more difficult).
First, so that I can address your op as titled, I would like to dispense with side issues.
Keep your drama out of public channels, /join 666, and take your drama there.
All Corvus stations will sell a base centurion model to just about anyone, and a power cell two levels higher than you can get anywhere else. Learn how to run. Go to a non Corvus station and rehome. Noobs that wish to visit Corvus, should find a non Corvus station in the same system that will sell them a hog2, and home there, arrive at a Corvus station in a hog2, immediately upgrade the power cell, and leave it parked there as an emergency escape ship, and not home at Corvus. Stay homed at a non Corvus station in the same system, where you can buy a hog2.
I do not see a problem with killing someone while they try to repair. You should repair at a faction that likes you, and will enforce faction penalties. Repair at Corvus at your own risk.
Now, as far as changing respawn location, here are some ideas:
(not counting duels, npc, and /explode)
If you get killed at a station twice in a row, you are rehomed to the nearest non Corvus station, with preference for which faction likes you more. If you get killed at that station, you are rehomed in the next system.
If you get killed in the same non station sector twice in a row you get rehomed in the next system, further from Odia, with system preference for which nation that likes you is closer, or likes you more, with a 10 minute restriction on homing in the system you died in, renewed each time you die to a player inside that 10 minutes.
Something like that?
Keep your drama out of public channels, /join 666, and take your drama there.
All Corvus stations will sell a base centurion model to just about anyone, and a power cell two levels higher than you can get anywhere else. Learn how to run. Go to a non Corvus station and rehome. Noobs that wish to visit Corvus, should find a non Corvus station in the same system that will sell them a hog2, and home there, arrive at a Corvus station in a hog2, immediately upgrade the power cell, and leave it parked there as an emergency escape ship, and not home at Corvus. Stay homed at a non Corvus station in the same system, where you can buy a hog2.
I do not see a problem with killing someone while they try to repair. You should repair at a faction that likes you, and will enforce faction penalties. Repair at Corvus at your own risk.
Now, as far as changing respawn location, here are some ideas:
(not counting duels, npc, and /explode)
If you get killed at a station twice in a row, you are rehomed to the nearest non Corvus station, with preference for which faction likes you more. If you get killed at that station, you are rehomed in the next system.
If you get killed in the same non station sector twice in a row you get rehomed in the next system, further from Odia, with system preference for which nation that likes you is closer, or likes you more, with a 10 minute restriction on homing in the system you died in, renewed each time you die to a player inside that 10 minutes.
Something like that?
Roda, that'd be a fine system and I think we have a lot of opportunity to define the behavior in a way that minimizes impact to legitimate conflicts as Greenwall mentions in his concerns. If such a system was exempted from CS sectors, Hive Skirmishes, and Deneb, it would leave large-scale battles relatively untouched while providing a little more finality to combat that creates an opportunity for one side to "win" temporarily.
Whistler, I don't have a definitive vision of how it would work, just more of a concept that I thought would benefit from the community fleshing out if they find value in the suggestion. So whatever thoughts you have are appreciated.
I think a lot of the toxicity comes from a lack of closure to the battles due to the constant "fling yourself back into the fray" that exists with the current mechanics.
Whistler, I don't have a definitive vision of how it would work, just more of a concept that I thought would benefit from the community fleshing out if they find value in the suggestion. So whatever thoughts you have are appreciated.
I think a lot of the toxicity comes from a lack of closure to the battles due to the constant "fling yourself back into the fray" that exists with the current mechanics.
I think toxicity is its own topic, and game play should be designed to maximize enjoyment of game play, not minimize someone's hurt feelings.
I am in favor of rehoming newbs trapped at Corvus, or a grey system.
But what about bus wars at Corvus?
The Corvus rehoming could be limited to characters that can not purchase an infini 220 and fast charge where they are homed. That way vets are not impacted.
I am in favor of rehoming newbs trapped at Corvus, or a grey system.
But what about bus wars at Corvus?
The Corvus rehoming could be limited to characters that can not purchase an infini 220 and fast charge where they are homed. That way vets are not impacted.
What if the re-homing is optional?
That is a good idea, in some ways, Whistler.
But I like the idea of
a) Forcing a noob out of Corvus, even if the noob doesn't like it.
b) Limiting station griefing of a noob, even if the griefer doesn't like it.
I mean, if you can not purchase a fast charge at Corvus, should you really even be there?
It isn't that big a deal, because you can buy a basic centurion, but they don't. They buy a base hog or base something other than centurion, that has no chance of escaping. If they can escape, they should get it done in two or three attempts, otherwise, rehome them.
But I like the idea of
a) Forcing a noob out of Corvus, even if the noob doesn't like it.
b) Limiting station griefing of a noob, even if the griefer doesn't like it.
I mean, if you can not purchase a fast charge at Corvus, should you really even be there?
It isn't that big a deal, because you can buy a basic centurion, but they don't. They buy a base hog or base something other than centurion, that has no chance of escaping. If they can escape, they should get it done in two or three attempts, otherwise, rehome them.
I don't understand the complaint about getting shot while repairing. Repairs aren't sacred. If you're damaged and on your way to the station, and you see an enemy ship ahead of you, you should expect that it will shoot you. There are several options to deal with that situation. You could fight them. You could go around them. You could try to turbo past them and hope for the best. You could turn around and jump to a different station. It's not rocket science. So, -1 to altering respawn time.
The mitigation for station camping does sound reasonable, so long as it's either optional or newbie-only. +1 to that.
The mitigation for station camping does sound reasonable, so long as it's either optional or newbie-only. +1 to that.
+1 to combat timer
Letting people get back into the furball immediately takes away from benefit of getting a kill. Limiting that in some way would make death more meaningful.
Letting people get back into the furball immediately takes away from benefit of getting a kill. Limiting that in some way would make death more meaningful.
Life is cheap in VO, as are ships. I don't know if we should we really be slowing down the ability to get back into the fight with a combat timer. Many times just travel distance alone is enough of a delay.
What I might be ok with it some sort cool down period of respawns for a single station. A kind of bottle neck in the respawn tanks if you will. Everyone gets a single instant(priority) respawn per 5 or 10 minutes, but if there a lot of death happening in a short period of time, the respawn tanks get overloaded and need a cooling off period. This affects everyone in the area, forcing pilots to choose different stations to spawn from to maximize the speed they come back at .
What I might be ok with it some sort cool down period of respawns for a single station. A kind of bottle neck in the respawn tanks if you will. Everyone gets a single instant(priority) respawn per 5 or 10 minutes, but if there a lot of death happening in a short period of time, the respawn tanks get overloaded and need a cooling off period. This affects everyone in the area, forcing pilots to choose different stations to spawn from to maximize the speed they come back at .
Oh, I think I like that. Add an exception for Corvus stations, though. That way we can still have fast paced battles in Corvus systems (and especially fast ones outside Corvus stations).
-1. For the re-spawn timer. When the 45 minute fur-ball happens it's fun. It's not like they happen all the time.
[to me a fur-ball consists of roughly ten or more players and often without clearly defined sides, or more than two sides]
I can understand where this request comes from. I have at times been the '1' in a 2v1 or 3v1 and if I manage to knock one of them off it's aggravating when he just pops back in with a fresh ship and joins back into the fight. I know that a discussion of etiquette is basically wasted here, but when I'm a member of the larger group I often dawdle on my way back because my adversary earned some alone-time with the remaining pilots.
Ghost (for those that remember him) was usually homed in Jallik so that he could never do this in a Sedina fur-ball. I respect that.
[to me a fur-ball consists of roughly ten or more players and often without clearly defined sides, or more than two sides]
I can understand where this request comes from. I have at times been the '1' in a 2v1 or 3v1 and if I manage to knock one of them off it's aggravating when he just pops back in with a fresh ship and joins back into the fight. I know that a discussion of etiquette is basically wasted here, but when I'm a member of the larger group I often dawdle on my way back because my adversary earned some alone-time with the remaining pilots.
Ghost (for those that remember him) was usually homed in Jallik so that he could never do this in a Sedina fur-ball. I respect that.
Ghost (rarely) homed in Jallik because he was too lazy to fly a load of valks to sedina. Also he was in loads of furballs in Sedina...
But I think a respawn timer might not have the intended effect. It would frustrate me a lot and also give me 60 seconds to vent, where-as otherwise I may concentrate on getting back to the battle first.
If this is intended to help lessen smak-talk, I think it might not work for that at all. I have no objection to some kind of respawn timer, I just do not think it will lessen noise in any way and may even increase it.
-1
But I think a respawn timer might not have the intended effect. It would frustrate me a lot and also give me 60 seconds to vent, where-as otherwise I may concentrate on getting back to the battle first.
If this is intended to help lessen smak-talk, I think it might not work for that at all. I have no objection to some kind of respawn timer, I just do not think it will lessen noise in any way and may even increase it.
-1
yoda and I agree, lets have some cake!
What's the issue with being trapped in D14 ? Just play an alt for a while until your aggressors have gone to school.