So what I like to S**t post, oh no its a freaking game. I obviously didnt mean actual death to america. Incarnate, how about you dont link the game chat to Discord? I dont know of any games that do that, but if I am wrong please let me know. I just think maybe you shouldnt do that. Glad to see that going off the advice of Whistler about my opinion on how to deal with "Toxic" game chat isnt gonna gear heard or taken seriously now because I S**t post on 100. I mean it was what I was arguing for, dont like what I am saying then /ignore or /block me. Its not hard to do. I wont apologize for what I said. If I offended you with my words, I dont care, I dont direct any hate towards anyone. I just like to have fun while I play the game.

All I do is Mine, so either I have fun chatting, or I get bored and unsub and just move on. Thats fine too. Maybe all the so called "toxic" players should just unsub and quit. Anyone that says anything not game related in 100 should just leave the game then. I mean if thats what you clearly want then fine I can get behind that, I will happily spend my $10 a month on some other game. Wont loose any sleep over it either. I enjoy this game, It is as close to EvE online I get for a while. But the ones being "Toxic" are the ones who refuse to use the in game abilities to block players, and turn on a chat filter.

I dont use discord and dont plan to anytime soon, but I am pretty sure in discord you can mute players too. 100 Chat to me is like Jita chat in EvE online, way less "toxic", but it was a main channel going though the region. Full of automatic messages, and people talking about what ever they wanted.
Ever played any other MMOs? All the so called "Main" chat channels are full of none game talk, know what people do, they move to another channel. Its common in every single MMO out there, its never going to go away.

But hey dont listen to me, I like to s**t post so my opinions don't matter anyway. But I was just doing what Whistler said I should do instead of bitching online. And thats fine, See Whistler I followed your Idea. Now I will go back to 100 and have my fun while I mine.

"perhaps we can add some political names and phrases to a filter to help out."

It's a bad idea to try filtering things that aren't just straight-up vulgarity, though it can be kind of hilarious sometimes.

Universe A:
<Wannabe Mentat> This estimate errs on the *********** side. It'll be fine!
<Big Blue Lou> I dunno. The Serco are basically ********, so I'd be very careful if I were you.
<AstroMouse> I love ****** Duck. That's some good stuff!
<DuelMan Dan> Great ****! I'm gonna have to play my ***** card. Prepare yourself!
<BusyLizzy> If you don't like the way the guild works, you should ****. I always **** every chance I get!
<Der Fuhrer> This guild is not a *********!
<THISGAMEISDUMB> Why can't I have ******* in my name? Guild Software *****!

Universe B:
<Wannabe Mentat> This estimate errs on the conservative side. It'll be fine!
<Big Blue Lou> I dunno. The Serco are basically fascists, so I'd be very careful if I were you.
<AstroMouse> I love Donald Duck. That's some good stuff!
<DuelMan Dan> Great Scott! I'm gonna have to play my trump card. Prepare yourself!
<BusyLizzy> If you don't like the way the guild works, you should vote. I always vote every chance I get!
<Der Fuhrer> This guild is not a democracy!
<HillaryDuff4LYFE> This game is awesome! Guild Software are the best!

I would like to make one final point, what if someone /joins every channel, like say 1-666, then they get mad at what they are seeing in one of the other channels, and more people hear about it and join that channel and get angry about it. You gonna put chat restrictions on those channels too? Cause people can easily do that.

Its a slippery slope Inc, A very slippery one. Because people will find a reason to complain in any and every channel, so if you do it to one channel you are gonna end up having to do it to the next channel, then the next, and so on and so forth. Its something I have seen happen with other things outside games. You Apologize, they people are going to demand more. You can "Fix" 100 if you want, but as soon as your "Toxic" players, such as myself, move to another channel someone is gonna stumble upon it and cry out about how they are offended.

I have nothing against you Inc, this game is fun, fantastic, I wish I could get some better detail on my Tablet, but that could be on my tablet in general, its not a high grade one, but I am worried by giving into demands, its gonna make people want more. Just work on your game itself, listen to ideas on how to improve actual game play elements, not how to improve chat.

But if you wanna improve chat, you can do as twitch does, and I believe youtube does, and give the option for players to type in words they dont wanna hear in addition to the profanity filter. I dont know how hard that would be to implement into the game, but then people could block out Trump, and the such. Just an Idea.

FWIW, Calvin Sprocket, I do actually appreciate that you added your point of view here. Incarnate asked for feedback and I've been thumping for it here and in the game so that we get different voices in here. I might not actually want the names of Australian politicians filtered out - but I do want hear from people who will explain why such things are not a good idea.

[100]<Roda Slane> @Calvin: /join 666
[666]<Roda Slane> @Calvin: go to hell
[100]<Roda Slane> @Calvin: Be civil, or /leave 100
[666]<Roda Slane> @Calvin: Don't like what you see in 666? /leave 666, get the f out

You do not have the right to be offensive in sector, system, /msg, or sub 666 channels.

Anything you don't like in 666, you should /leave 666.

Everyone has every right to be offended at anything they see in 666 and up, with no real expectation that anyone will do anything about it. 666 and up, has no promises, one way or the other.

Guild software has not conceded me these points, but neither have I heard them object.

Again, Inc has asked for suggestions. Let's not get dug in on one perspective over another here.

Looks to me like Incarnate is digging in. There will be a safe place for civil people.

I am trying to make a place for the rest of us.

Let us not forget who I am.

"[100]<Roda Slane> @Calvin: /join 666
[666]<Roda Slane> @Calvin: go to hell
[100]<Roda Slane> @Calvin: Be civil, or /leave 100
[666]<Roda Slane> @Calvin: Don't like what you see in 666? /leave 666, get the f out

You do not have the right to be offensive in sector, system, /msg, or sub 666 channels.

Anything you don't like in 666, you should /leave 666.

Everyone has every right to be offended at anything they see in 666 and up, with no real expectation that anyone will do anything about it. 666 has no promises, one way or the other.

Guild software has not conceded me these points, but neither have I heard them object."

What are you on about? I wasnt just focused on one channel there, I was saying all channels from 1-666 as an example, I am not really sure what you are trying to say here. I really dont understand what you are on about at all. O.o Is your point that people are going to be offended no matter what? Yeah that was kinda the point I have been making. Hence why I was saying it should be up to the individual player to /ignore or /block players they dont wanna hear from. If you dont want to see curse words they use the profanity filter. Please explain your point if I missed it, pretty sure I did.

Whistler thank you. I appreciate your feed back on here, see you on VO in channel 100 where I will be a gud boi. Not gonna do nuffin wrong. XD

Ronda Now that I know who you are, I dont care if i got you message wrong, you are good peoples in my book and like the way you think. I read the whole Ban you thread. That was a great laugh. Fantastic. Yeah you dont deserve to be banned.

Gentlemen: stick to the topic and the arguments, not each other.

Guild software has not conceded me these points, but neither have I heard them object.

Relax, Roda, I'm not going to instantly say "I DO PROCLAIM THAT WE SHALL DO IT THUSLY!" on your suggestions, I'm just trying to hear input from people. I think you're making a lot of useful points. I also have my own opinions, which I'm stating, and which don't necessarily exclude your points either. Obviously my opinions have the weight of being.. mine, but that doesn't make them un-assailable, as I'm clearly willing to consider and respond to other perspectives. This is a "Request For Comments" type thread after all.

I would like to make one final point, what if someone /joins every channel, like say 1-666, then they get mad at what they are seeing in one of the other channels, and more people hear about it and join that channel and get angry about it. You gonna put chat restrictions on those channels too? Cause people can easily do that.

I'm aware that could happen, it just isn't likely to matter very much, in practice. We thoroughly discussed the reason for all of this earlier in the thread:

- The "s**tposting" and toxicity in 100 is grating on a lot of existing players, causing them to leave 100 (and disconnect with the game community), and gives a terrible impression to newbies (toxicity of game chat has become a frequently mentioned issue in reviews by new players; it wasn't always so).

- If we ban specific types of activity on 1 and 100, the only default-subscribed channels, but not elsewhere, and maybe it continues on all the other channels.. that has little impact on a) newbies, because they won't join those channels by default, and b) people who would otherwise leave 100, but instead stay tied to the community.

- But, ironically, I think it won't go that far, because a lot of the "s**tposting" is only done for the benefit an audience. Remove the audience, you probably cut down the "s**tposting" as well.. which goes to my next point.. quoted from the previous chat clips:

pews, sandbox space game, and watching people get triggered is the highlight of my day...not necessarily in that order

See, that's the challenge. I'm definitely into supplying the pews and the sandbox space game. But the third one I really have an issue with: people who aren't here to play the "game", but rather the "meta-game" of "triggering people over the interwebs". Or, as I defined it in the OP:

2) Somewhat subtle trolling and manipulative behaviour designed to "get a rise" out of targeted people and rile them up.

That's kind of BS, and I don't need that here. I most definitely don't need it on 100 and 1. And I don't need players whose primary entertainment revolves around that, so in response to..

Maybe all the so called "toxic" players should just unsub and quit. Anyone that says anything not game related in 100 should just leave the game then. I mean if thats what you clearly want then fine I can get behind that, I will happily spend my $10 a month on some other game. Wont loose any sleep over it either.

It depends on what behaviour you're referring to here, I'm not trying to paint everyone with the same brush. Some people just act-out after having a bad day. But, if you mean people whose main, persistent goal is to troll, trigger and bait other players using the chat system, for the purposes of being entertained by the resulting anger or emotional reaction of their target, I'll try to respond candidly:

I would certainly prefer if people with degrees of troll-like behaviour choose to adapt and improve their behaviour, within the framework of whatever rules we roll out.

But, if they cannot, or will not improve their behaviour, and mainly want to troll and trigger angry reactions in others, I think it's best they leave VO and go do that somewhere else.

I am worried by giving into demands, its gonna make people want more.

I appreciate that, but keep in mind, I've been at this a long while. I already get spurious demands all the time, from people who file tickets because "someone blew up my ship!" and other fairly inane issues. I speak to that in the OP.

These proposed updates may result in a change in demands, and it may evolve in different ways. The only guarantee is that it won't go entirely to plan (nothing ever does, when lots of people are involved), but the reason for this kind of thing is to "improve" the situation, and not an expectation of perfection. Having the "/report" tools that I lay out in the OP should go a long way to making the process of enforcement much simpler and more transparent, and effective.

FWIW, Calvin Sprocket, I do actually appreciate that you added your point of view here. Incarnate asked for feedback and I've been thumping for it here and in the game so that we get different voices in here.

I'd like to add my appreciation to Whistler's. These posts have instructive value, and I appreciate Calvin taking the time to engage and write about it from his perspective.

It also helps crystallize some of the challenges we're dealing with here. I tried to call it "negativity and trolling" or something in the OP, but the concept of "s**tposting" is maybe simpler and easier to understand. Let me unpack that a little..

There is a misconception that players in favor of these changes must be rule-oriented, domineering, over-sensitive types who have their delicate dispositions ruined by "s**tposting" behaviour. This is not accurate.

The problem isn't people taking offense, the problem is the "exhausting" nature of the s**tposting, day-in, day-out, over and over and over again. It's always been around to some extent, but it's become commonplace to a point where it's a grind of stupid crap flowing by for much of the day.

It can't really be "/ignored", because someone you actually want to hear from will still end up responding to the "s**tposting", and then you have to watch their one-sided argument, which continues to be annoying. That's what leads to people leaving 100, and the channel becoming increasingly quiet over the last few years (despite the online player count remaining the same).

But how the hell do you limit s**tposting? It's kind of hard to quantify, and thus specifically "ban", as I laid out in the OP.

Well, one way to try to limit it, suggested by the players back in 2017, is to limit the total content to being game-related on default-public, default-subscribed channels.

That's really what the thread is about, and that's the idea that started it.

If anyone new wants to weigh in on these issues, please start by reading the actual original post, so we don't have to keep re-explaining why we're here, over and over again. It helps keep the content more relevant and less repetitive.

I would like to take this time to point out that I have been playing since 2002, and have always thought there should be a little bit more of a wrist slap every now and again. Has my attitude got worse in recent years? Yes, undoubtedly yes.

Am I an adult and should I know better? Sure should! I do not play a game to be an adult though and in recent years this seems to have devolved into being a ranty child, but at least I still try keep it game related. 100 has got so bad with RL (E-Penis) stuff that sometimes even I feel like leaving 100 (or the entire game) and sometimes I do. This is actually quite sad as fun used to follow me around in VO. That is not just me saying this either, lots of players over the years thought "oh wow, yoda is always having pvp and fun, lets be like him!" - truth be told, back in 2004 - 2009 things were kind of like the direction Incarnate is now trying to push things. Sure, me and Bojan had our wars, me and Ecka had our spat fests, me and CLM fell out and more. Most of this was seen as conflict, but at least it was all game related.

Even I have fallen into the trap of just trolling for the sake of getting a rise, because this is just what is done now. My bad, and I apologise. Regardless of the outcome of this thread I will do my best to play the way I used to - maybe I can get some to follow, you never know!

I would certainly prefer if people with degrees of troll-like behaviour choose to adapt and improve their behaviour, within the framework of whatever rules we roll out.

But, if they cannot, or will not improve their behaviour, and mainly want to troll and trigger angry reactions in others, I think it's best they leave VO and go do that somewhere else.

^This is exact kind of behavior happens in other ways in game BEYOND chat. Indeed, when said behavior happens through normal gameplay (i.e. through certain players persistently abusing exploits or otherwise griefing other players through intended mechanics or through mechanics players aren't yet aware of), it is at a minimum equally infuriating, if not much MORE infuriating, than dealing with toxicity in 100. And it most certainly is a driving factor in causing people to chat ABOUT it, toxically.

I realize this discussions scope is narrowly focused on chat, but I think all troll like behavior is related, and feeds itself. This game, in its design, implicitly allows for people to be !!TOTAL F*CKING D*CKS!! without even typing a word in chat. I've basically already said this and you dismissed my point by saying "it used to not be this bad". Ok, but WHY does that seem to be?

What is the cause? I would assume you are interested in the most effective way to address the problem, and I'm concerned you are are trying to treat the symptoms and not the problem. You might be able to throw efforts at silencing the resulting toxicity in chat, but the factors that drive people to be "SH*TC*CK"-speakers in 100 will still linger and persist.

You will still have newbies being CONSTANTLY griefed into losing their standing or whatever and then quitting. You will still have those same players who expertly and persistently troll others through non-bug gameplay mechanics. You will still have player conflicts that give rise to VERY heated tensions. As you add more "unfinished content" (like the Trident was and is) you will have ever more trolly/exploitative behaviors that take advantage it.

Even if we took out the whole "Trump Effect", as it were, and the divisiveness that pervades our society (speaking for the US, at least), you still have a game that is fertile ground for the kind of behavior that is blooming right now.

I understand you are seeking improvement and not perfection. But perhaps looking at ways of drawing the playbase's attention elsewhere, giving us something to actively do as a break from the mind-numbing grind, something all levels of players can commonly and easily pursue, something that could not only subdue toxicity but improve things for the game overall, is ALSO worthwhile. I don't know if you have ever noticed, but when there are giant furballs happening, people aren't sh*tc*cking in 100. They are fighting eachother and having fun. It's usually when there is nothing to do but sit in a station, or stare into space as you travel slowly and uneventfully across the universe, or sit at a WH, that the toxicity starts to brew.

There probably isn't just ONE thing that has driven this, but there are certainly notable factors (perceived player retention dropping and resulting lack of PVP, slowed development pace, increased exploitability of game as more "work in progress" features are introduced, american politics, etc) that track along with the toxicity uptick that mitigating through the proposed reporting and chat policing won't affect at all.

@greenwall:

I can see your point, that some toxicity, is actually on topic, and about game play, and a symptom, of a deeper game related root cause.

But with so much trivial toxicity floating around, adding toxicity to a real game related issue is just watering it down. If you want the real game related issues to be seen in stark contrast, strip the toxicity from everything, and see what remains.

Real game related issues, will remain real game related issues, even after the toxicity is removed. But at least then they won't be buried in a mountain of unnecessary, unrelated, trivia.

Real game related issues, will remain real game related issues, even after the toxicity is removed. But at least then they won't be buried in a mountain of unnecessary, unrelated, trivia.

You are forgetting that the account holders who play in game are human.

could you be a little bit more specific?

What is the cause? I would assume you are interested in the most effective way to address the problem, and I'm concerned you are are trying to treat the symptoms and not the problem.

The reason why I keep this thread laser-focused on the "chat" topic, is because that's an issue I don't know how to address. I mean, obviously I have some ideas, and some have been provided by the userbase, but it's new territory and a major problem.

Existing gameplay and design issues, generally speaking, I know I can fix. I'm already well aware of many issues, and have plans for them, but if you want to be helpful on that subject, then..

Start a new thread listing exploits and issues that you think contribute to toxic behaviour and frustration, and then list how to fix them point-by-point. Or, create a meta-thread that links to other threads specifically on the different topics.

I'll compare them to what I have. I do not want to delve into that in this thread, because obviously we're on 7 pages of chaos, just while trying to stay on "chat" as a topic. If we try and cover too much in one place, it turns into a lot of useless yelling that becomes impossible to parse for helpful input, I lock the thread and go do something else. That doesn't serve anyone.

(The rest of this, greenwall, should not be taken as an answer to you specifically, but is rather to a lot of aggregated people who have raised a lot of similar points, so don't take it personally..)

While all of the above technically answers your question, it doesn't answer the frustration behind your question, which is basically: "Why haven't you fixed all these issues?!?"

And the answer to that, that no one wants to hear, is "Because my development resources have been very limited, and have been required for more critical projects, both for the future of the game and the present existence of the company."

People read that, and some believe it (or do for awhile), but some who are really embittered do not, and think I'm either some myopic idiot, or worse, they build some Dumbass Conspiracy Theory about my no longer caring about the game, because they haven't seen sufficient progress to "justify" their belief in what I'm saying.

Case in point, this is a recent one-star Play Store review posted by a fairly well-known player, back in late January (before I started this RFC thread):

Don't get this game. I have played it for 3 years and spent $250 dollars on this for basically nothing. It was supposed to be a tech demo in 2002. This game has slow development with devs who care not for the community. The game has not changed in years, the interface looks like it was integrated from windows XP, and the mobile controls are disgustingly bad. The devs just use their fancy custom engine to get grants from Samsung and other billion dollar companies. Do not install. Not worth it.

So, we can basically learn a few things from this:

1) This person is now so embittered and angry, they want to actually hurt me and Ray, and the game, and directly reduce our chance of attracting new users, by posting angry reviews on public sites.

2) This person believes that we no longer care about actively developing the game, and we only do unrelated development to make money from third-party companies.

Point #2 is a fairly popular conspiracy theory, and one (other) player in particular has gone out of his way to try to convince others that we're basically lying to our users about all our development work and plans, and that all we really care about is finding the next "grant" from some giant corporation. This has been a really harmful, toxic falsehood. And a really insulting falsehood, given the personal sacrifices we've been making.

Of course, the opposite is true. If we wanted to actually behave this way, we could have abandoned VO much more successfully years ago, for offers made then, and reiterated by new parties basically every year since. We're a proven MMO developer, and there's a ton of money out there in making games for publishers for some random license. Who knows, maybe they want Barbie PlayHouse Builder The MMO, or Lord of the Rings for Watches, it doesn't matter. What's important is they'll throw a million dollars at a company like us, which in case you can't imagine it, would be life-changing for us.

But, we haven't done that. Instead, we've continue our life-shortening, burnout-inducing lift on pushing VO to the point where we can actually ship an expansion, and market it, and perhaps have the game grow into something we all want it to be. But doing that requires a lot of work, that's behind the scenes and has ****-all to do with visible content changes. And with our resources as limited as they are, it takes forever.

In the meantime, people have become increasingly embittered. In 2018, I tried to push more Newsletters, and do a as much "visible" bugfixing as we could, and try to go after some hot-button topics, like spotter-bots and such (something we actually had a big impact on, but obviously isn't entirely resolved), but frankly, some people are just too far gone and have become so toxically angry that I have to deal in some way with the reality of who they have become, and the type of behaviour that they both engage in themselves, and encourage in others.

And thus, here we are, trying to address the symptom. So, no, I'm not an idiot. But I have to deal with the reality that exists, and not the reality I wish existed. For instance:

I understand you are seeking improvement and not perfection. But perhaps looking at ways of drawing the playbase's attention elsewhere, giving us something to actively do as a break from the mind-numbing grind, something all levels of players can commonly and easily pursue, something that could not only subdue toxicity but improve things for the game overall, is ALSO worthwhile.

You need to come to terms with a really pragmatic and brutal reality. We have a choice of either:

1) We can work on a next-generation version of VO, with a Universe Redux and massive gameplay and content enhancements that aim to make good on the many RFCs and goals of the past, combined with a re-launch on PC, a marketing campaign, and distribution through new channels to attract more players.

OR!

2) We can do periodic enhancements to the game to mollify a relatively small group of existing players.

Which do you want, because you may only have ONE? We do not have the resources to do both. I either have to be laser-focused on the former, or I have to give up on the future of VO, and do the latter.

I know, you "want" it to be true that I could do both, people are just desperate to self-righteously justify how that "must" be true, and Inc is just lazy and short-sighted! He could do one for a while, and then the other! No, I can't, because then we would never accomplish either! I actually know what I'm doing.

I used to be able to do "both", or something closer to it, when I had more programmers. But I cannot anymore. And, I've decided we're working on next-gen VO. So, in the meantime, ****-all happens in visible progress. Until, all of a sudden, a s**tload of stuff is going to happen and change all at once, and you can all then be pissed at me about something entirely new, like not agreeing with new changes or whatever. I actually alluded to this in the end of the last Newsletter in December, when I said:

Players have been waiting for big changes in Vendetta Online for a long time; at this point, I hope they're prepared for the reality of that actually happening.

But for now, we need to figure out how to deal with the problem of "people who are asshats when they're bored, and all the other people they attract", because "adding stuff to VO".. while it might mitigate some symptoms, is not an actual long-term solution to the problem of toxicity, and it fundamentally creates a required "pace" of content-drops that I just cannot keep up with. Not with our little dev-team, there's no ****ing way.

The other reason why I've been militant on shutting down these conversational segues, is that we've already discussed this stuff. I know you've read it before. Perhaps you didn't subscribe to my explanations then, and perhaps you won't now. Regardless, I don't see any purpose in beating the dead horse. Some people are convinced that I'm stunningly obtuse about why users are frustrated (I'm not), other are convinced that I'm lying to everyone while laughing and driving my ferrari filled with bags of money and leaving clouds of dollar-bills fluttering behind (hahah.. god no).

No, actually, I'm just trying to get through this. This whole process is a crushing expenditure of human energy, and demonstration of will; but I have no way of "showing" that to you guys, other than writing words like these.. which some people just choose not to believe.

In past years I've been very apologetic about lack of progress and stuff, I've done lots of mea-culpas and so on, lengthy threads of yore that people can choose to dig up if they like. I've stopped doing that, because I don't think I've actually done anything wrong. Like, don't misunderstand, lots of sh*t has gone awry in the last three years, but it was mostly stuff that I would have had a really hard time predicting.

We're so resource-limited, but we're so focused, and we're so organized, and we're making good time, but it just ain't what you want, or more accurately, what you think you want; ultimately you want it all and now. But, we don't have a "live team" (developing "live" content drops), we don't have a "marketing team" or a "player engagement team" or a "can run Dev Events every weekend" team. We just have some dudes in Milwaukee who work 80 hours a week and can't add more stuff to our plates without losing our minds.

So, seriously, let's keep it focused on chat content in this thread.

If you, greenwall, or someone else, wants to make a new thread or an aggregation-thread of other gameplay issues and their potential solutions.. hey, that's super cool. I'll compare it to my existing TODO list. It would be helpful. If it devolves into a name-calling dumpster-fire, I will lock it, so please try to avoid that.

Let's come back to the functionality of /report.

I've noticed that currently users often say that they're voting, or pretend to flub /vote, but they don't actually do it (as evidenced by 0 votes). I imagine some are unable, but I'm interested in why others do not vote when something's going on that is clearly annoying people in the moment. Why is that?

Also: Who will be able to /report? Will all account types be able to use all /reports?

Also: Who will be able to /report? Will all account types be able to use all /reports?

I'm expecting /report to be generally available to all. The secondary "vote mute"-style functions of using a /report with a "spam" category could utilize the current premium-vs-f2p weighting scheme.

But the general concept of "/report" with the deferred "administrative action upon validation" process on the back-end, will be available to all equally.

/report could be a request for administrative review of long term options, and /vote mute is to get it done now, with some overlapping functionality, in case players are not synchronized on a method.
Making the mutually exclusive could reduce abuse, insisting on one before the other could increase or decrease the number of reports, both together could mean something extra, and the order could be taken into account, /report alone counts as half a /vote, /vote alone x1, /vote before /report x1.5, and /report before /vote x2. (guessing at how players will instinctively behave depending on the situation. Could review how it really ends up working to see if the guess is good.)