Forums » Suggestions
proposed CUP blaster changes
drop the grid to 12 and up the velocity to 210. it only does 3333 DPS which is substantially lower than any neutron blaster and ~500 lower than both the AAP and hive.
for comparisons sake I have added some common 3 small port ship load outs with the CUP compared to other popular load outs. Single shot damage assumes only one of each weapon in a load out hits the target at a time as sustained fire on an opponent is uncommon in regular pvp, single shot is in parenthesis
CUP + dual sunflare 6,333 dps (4000) vs law + dual sunflare 7,885 dps (3635)
CUP + dual sunflare 6,330 dps (4000) vs dual law + sunflare 10,770 dps (2700)
CUP + dual sunflare 6,330 dps (4000) vs AAP + dual sunflare 9810 dps (3800)
CUP + dual sunflare 6,330 dps (4000) vs dual AAP + sunflare 9120 dps (3100)
CUP + dual laws 13,102 dps (2270) vs tri laws 14,665 dsp (1905)
CUP + dual AAP 10,953 dps (2600) vs law + dual aap 12,505 dps (2235)
CUP + dual AAP 10,953 dps (2600) vs dual laws + AAP 13,580 dps (2070)
CUP + dual AAP 10,952 dps (2600) vs tri AAP 11,430 dps (2400)
for fun I also ran the numbers with the grid at 8 allowing dual CUPs
Dual CUP + sunflare 8,166 dps (3500) vs dual law + sunflare 10,770 dps (2700)
Dual CUP + law 11,551 (2635) vs tri laws 14,665 dsp (1905)
Dual CUP + law 11,551 (2635) vs law + dual aap 12,505 dps (2235)
Dual CUP + law 11,551 (2635) vs dual laws + AAP 13,580 dps (2070)
Dual CUP + AAP 12,476 (2800) vs law + dual aap 12,505 dps (2235)
Dual CUP + AAP 12,476 (2800) vs tri AAP 11,430 dps (2400)
so the CUP + anything always loses the dps battle and wins the single shot battle (except in the case of tri aaps) which I think is a fair trade off I think these changes would make it a more worth while option to consider outside of its niche role.
for comparisons sake I have added some common 3 small port ship load outs with the CUP compared to other popular load outs. Single shot damage assumes only one of each weapon in a load out hits the target at a time as sustained fire on an opponent is uncommon in regular pvp, single shot is in parenthesis
CUP + dual sunflare 6,333 dps (4000) vs law + dual sunflare 7,885 dps (3635)
CUP + dual sunflare 6,330 dps (4000) vs dual law + sunflare 10,770 dps (2700)
CUP + dual sunflare 6,330 dps (4000) vs AAP + dual sunflare 9810 dps (3800)
CUP + dual sunflare 6,330 dps (4000) vs dual AAP + sunflare 9120 dps (3100)
CUP + dual laws 13,102 dps (2270) vs tri laws 14,665 dsp (1905)
CUP + dual AAP 10,953 dps (2600) vs law + dual aap 12,505 dps (2235)
CUP + dual AAP 10,953 dps (2600) vs dual laws + AAP 13,580 dps (2070)
CUP + dual AAP 10,952 dps (2600) vs tri AAP 11,430 dps (2400)
for fun I also ran the numbers with the grid at 8 allowing dual CUPs
Dual CUP + sunflare 8,166 dps (3500) vs dual law + sunflare 10,770 dps (2700)
Dual CUP + law 11,551 (2635) vs tri laws 14,665 dsp (1905)
Dual CUP + law 11,551 (2635) vs law + dual aap 12,505 dps (2235)
Dual CUP + law 11,551 (2635) vs dual laws + AAP 13,580 dps (2070)
Dual CUP + AAP 12,476 (2800) vs law + dual aap 12,505 dps (2235)
Dual CUP + AAP 12,476 (2800) vs tri AAP 11,430 dps (2400)
so the CUP + anything always loses the dps battle and wins the single shot battle (except in the case of tri aaps) which I think is a fair trade off I think these changes would make it a more worth while option to consider outside of its niche role.
I think the whole point is that it's 18 grid so it's special and not just a better AAPB. If it was 16 or less you could just use a CUP and one AAPB.
I think it really needs a buff but not in terms of grid. Either increase the firing rate, maybe 0.2, or increase the velocity to 215m/s.
It's way too weak for a single port weapon in my opinion.
I think it really needs a buff but not in terms of grid. Either increase the firing rate, maybe 0.2, or increase the velocity to 215m/s.
It's way too weak for a single port weapon in my opinion.
What do you think about 16 grid? I like the velocity change you suggested.
Even making it 16 grid would allow you to have 2 posis so in the end you just have an upgraded AAPB. I see it as the counterpart to thw Widowmaker so I think keeping it at 18 gris is fine. But the weapon is really weak in my opinion. I would personally prefer both the 215m/s and a 0.2 delay at the same time but if I had to pick one I would probably go with a lower delay.
16 is the ideal grid. This means if a pilot wishes to equip two weapons, they will not be able to equip an IHDPC.
Even if you have two weapons it's still not good because the CUP isn't really strong and you're better off with just using two AAPs.
You should make the weapon good instead of being able to equip a better weapon alongside an underperforming one. There isn't really a need for a second weapon if one of them isn't very useful, you would much rather have two good weapons or a single good one instead of a good and a bad weapon at the same time.
Changing the grid doesn't make the weapon any better but I think it really needs a buff. If the grid was 10 or lower it would be a different story but at that point you just made a better AAP and they will become obsolete. Then again the access to CUPs is pretty limited so it could potentially be considered. But even with two weapons the fire rate and velocity is way too low to be useful.
In my opinion the CUP needs at least a delay of 0.2 seconds and a velocity of 215m/s or higher. Another possibility is to make it a real special weapon: Keep the delay at 0.3 but give it a really high velocity, something like 250m/s or higher but I'm not sure how it would turn out in actual PvP. Going lower than 0.2 would come close to being a neut and Posis are known and used for the high damage in combination of high velocity and having a low rate of fire as a trade-off.
So I suggest either massively increasing the velocity and keeping the old delay or increasing the speed to 215m/s and giving it 0.2 delay.
You should make the weapon good instead of being able to equip a better weapon alongside an underperforming one. There isn't really a need for a second weapon if one of them isn't very useful, you would much rather have two good weapons or a single good one instead of a good and a bad weapon at the same time.
Changing the grid doesn't make the weapon any better but I think it really needs a buff. If the grid was 10 or lower it would be a different story but at that point you just made a better AAP and they will become obsolete. Then again the access to CUPs is pretty limited so it could potentially be considered. But even with two weapons the fire rate and velocity is way too low to be useful.
In my opinion the CUP needs at least a delay of 0.2 seconds and a velocity of 215m/s or higher. Another possibility is to make it a real special weapon: Keep the delay at 0.3 but give it a really high velocity, something like 250m/s or higher but I'm not sure how it would turn out in actual PvP. Going lower than 0.2 would come close to being a neut and Posis are known and used for the high damage in combination of high velocity and having a low rate of fire as a trade-off.
So I suggest either massively increasing the velocity and keeping the old delay or increasing the speed to 215m/s and giving it 0.2 delay.
why does it matter if they can equip a CUP +2 weapons with an IHDPC? you realize that every common load out I have compared the CUP to is able to be used with an IHDPC just fine. The marauder class ships are the only ones that can infiturbo (excluding the cormaud) and they top out at 200m/s so its not like they can chase and use this as an advantage.
+1 to Heini's suggestions. Keep the grid as-is, and boost velocity and/or reduce delay.
@heini I have making the velocity 210 in my initial post, its in the first sentence. However 215 would also be good since IIRC thats what a megaposi is, however i am fine with it losing some velocity due to being a small port weapon