Forums » Suggestions
the turret arc change recently made it possible to fire all four trident turrets at a target in front of a trident (or 2x from a goliath). Using four free accounts and a plugin, it is possible to control those turrets and fire an unlimited amount of 4x caprails with zero energy cost to the pilot. That's 40k damage every 2.5 seconds, forever.
Prior to the arc change, the non-energy cost was less of an issue since all four turrets were never able to first energy weapons on a single point. Now they can, and it's overpowered. Not only is it OP, but it's exclusivity to those running 5 clients and a 3rd party plugin lend an overwhelmingly unfair advantage.
While I do think the capability to hunt capital ships is something we need, the exclusivity of such overwhelming firepower to such a small group of individuals is too much. Additionally, firing energy weapons while piloting a ship has ALWAYS had an energy cost. I don't see why capital ships should be any different.
While we wait for enhanced, built in / game supported pilot control of turrets, I think it is apt that there is an energy usage implemented to reign in this imbalance of firepower.
There is a right way to do this and quick way to do this. I suggest the quick way until the right way is ready (which could easily be never). The right way would be to have it drain from the main powercell. The quick way is to have each turret have it's own independent energy level. Such as (per turret):
2000 capacity
100/s recharge
The idea allowing a limited amount of shots to be fired before requiring a recharge to that of traditional rails in traditional weapons ports. This way 2 full volleys of 4x caprails could be issued before a recharge would be required, according to the current listed (but not functional) energy cost (1000).
It would also have a limiting factor on individual caprail usage generally -- limiting it's defensive capability, which is also not a horrible idea because its also very OP.
*note that the neutron blaster turrets should also have a drain, but the recharge proposed would basically negate it... this is mostly aimed at curbing the imbalance of firepower offered by caprails now
Prior to the arc change, the non-energy cost was less of an issue since all four turrets were never able to first energy weapons on a single point. Now they can, and it's overpowered. Not only is it OP, but it's exclusivity to those running 5 clients and a 3rd party plugin lend an overwhelmingly unfair advantage.
While I do think the capability to hunt capital ships is something we need, the exclusivity of such overwhelming firepower to such a small group of individuals is too much. Additionally, firing energy weapons while piloting a ship has ALWAYS had an energy cost. I don't see why capital ships should be any different.
While we wait for enhanced, built in / game supported pilot control of turrets, I think it is apt that there is an energy usage implemented to reign in this imbalance of firepower.
There is a right way to do this and quick way to do this. I suggest the quick way until the right way is ready (which could easily be never). The right way would be to have it drain from the main powercell. The quick way is to have each turret have it's own independent energy level. Such as (per turret):
2000 capacity
100/s recharge
The idea allowing a limited amount of shots to be fired before requiring a recharge to that of traditional rails in traditional weapons ports. This way 2 full volleys of 4x caprails could be issued before a recharge would be required, according to the current listed (but not functional) energy cost (1000).
It would also have a limiting factor on individual caprail usage generally -- limiting it's defensive capability, which is also not a horrible idea because its also very OP.
*note that the neutron blaster turrets should also have a drain, but the recharge proposed would basically negate it... this is mostly aimed at curbing the imbalance of firepower offered by caprails now
+1
I assumed this update was already a thing.
I assumed this update was already a thing.
Its actually possible for four friends man the turrets as well. I've seen that before. You should try it, its fun.
About the energy, you may have a point about ships llke the Atlas and Moth, but capital ships do have a 200MW reactor that should be able to power energy weapons.
About the single point, it happens to be a single point beyond 1000m. Closer or father from that point, and the pellets spread a lot. Its not easy to line up a shot if the target is moving a lot.
I think the real issue is that turrets can't be destroyed while a capital ship is piloted. Fix that, and things will become more "fair".
About the energy, you may have a point about ships llke the Atlas and Moth, but capital ships do have a 200MW reactor that should be able to power energy weapons.
About the single point, it happens to be a single point beyond 1000m. Closer or father from that point, and the pellets spread a lot. Its not easy to line up a shot if the target is moving a lot.
I think the real issue is that turrets can't be destroyed while a capital ship is piloted. Fix that, and things will become more "fair".
The only exclusivity is commitment or friends. Group fire is available on voupr and even works when you have newbs manning the turrets.
FYI I use 5 paid accounts :D
With your habit of "tactically retreating" at 30% what does it matter?
Quite honestly its no more of an advantage than a singke pilot being able to fire auto tracking capswarm colleys at a single target without having to reaquire said target upon switching turrets.
FYI I use 5 paid accounts :D
With your habit of "tactically retreating" at 30% what does it matter?
Quite honestly its no more of an advantage than a singke pilot being able to fire auto tracking capswarm colleys at a single target without having to reaquire said target upon switching turrets.
Being available on VOUPR does not mean it's accessible to everyone who plays the game.
And regardless, it still doesn't make any sense that it should be possible to fire energy weapons from the pilot seat and incur no energy cost. They already have unlimited ammo, after all.
I know you don't want people to mess around with your 40k damage supersonic superweapon, but you've had enough fun. Time to dial things back to more balanced gameplay.
And regardless, it still doesn't make any sense that it should be possible to fire energy weapons from the pilot seat and incur no energy cost. They already have unlimited ammo, after all.
I know you don't want people to mess around with your 40k damage supersonic superweapon, but you've had enough fun. Time to dial things back to more balanced gameplay.
+1
not based on the values, but in general such a drain would make sense (values to be discussed)
not based on the values, but in general such a drain would make sense (values to be discussed)
"And regardless, it still doesn't make any sense that it should be possible to fire energy weapons from the pilot seat and incur no energy cost"
Not fired from the pilots seat, fired by the gunner. Get your facts straight please.
Funny how none of you were up in arms when capswarms got a damage buff and can be fired without aiming a turret and have no energy cost.
There is now a counter tactic to the stay in front of the target and keep firing capswarms backwards in safety tactic you all employ and now it's not fair? Fuck off.
Not fired from the pilots seat, fired by the gunner. Get your facts straight please.
Funny how none of you were up in arms when capswarms got a damage buff and can be fired without aiming a turret and have no energy cost.
There is now a counter tactic to the stay in front of the target and keep firing capswarms backwards in safety tactic you all employ and now it's not fair? Fuck off.
Wash has a good point. Rails are not autoaim. If the target is not in front of where the turret is aiming, then there is no way to get hit. Cap swarms on the other hand are fire and forget (they will track until they run out of fuel or hit something). If anything, capwarms are OP. With cap rails, just learn to strafe, and you won't have a problem.
I saw some video from the other day where someone with capswarms was able to kill all the turrets in a capstation without ever leaving their ship. You can't do that easily with cap rails.
I saw some video from the other day where someone with capswarms was able to kill all the turrets in a capstation without ever leaving their ship. You can't do that easily with cap rails.
-1
Not even close to OP unless you can't move.
Not exclusive since anyone can be a Gunner; and anyone can even set up multiple accounts if they're inclined; and the plug-in isn't exactly a secret.
If Anything, capswarms are the OP weopon on capships. Any dipsh*t with a finger can fire swarms from a capship over and over without ever stopping or pausing.
Not even close to OP unless you can't move.
Not exclusive since anyone can be a Gunner; and anyone can even set up multiple accounts if they're inclined; and the plug-in isn't exactly a secret.
If Anything, capswarms are the OP weopon on capships. Any dipsh*t with a finger can fire swarms from a capship over and over without ever stopping or pausing.
-1
I would rather make turrets where you can destroy them instead of the indestructible ones we have now.
I would rather make turrets where you can destroy them instead of the indestructible ones we have now.
making them destroyable would promote people to use fighters to disable their target's capship before bringing their own capship into killing range. a vanguard force, if you will. having nonshielded turrets therefor would benefit groups of pilots with capships and those who dont have capships at all (cause its fairly easy to evade or just run off as a fighter), while only really crunching on those who try to push other pilots away from them.
And I don't see any issue with that. We should be encouraging group combat and recruitment for such.
And I don't see any issue with that. We should be encouraging group combat and recruitment for such.
Not even close to OP unless you can't move.
Spamming 40k damage every 2.5 seconds for eternity with zero cost to the powercell of the ship you are flying isn't OP? Please tell me another weapon that even sets foot in the same universe of power, I must have missed it in the 10 years I have played VO. Try again.
The concern is not against small nimble ships -- it is as an anti-capship weapon. Capships are much larger targets who obviously cannot "strafe" to avoid incoming fire.
Capswarms aren't OP for several reasons, despite their higher damage: they can be outrun easily; you know when they are coming at you; they have a much smaller range; you can force their lock to drop by undocking or docking, etc etc. Complaints about being able to fire homing weapons can kindly be stuffed back up the ass they came out of. Homing weapons are part of the game and will continue to be so.
I think making turrets destroyable is a good idea as well, but it doesn't counter the danger posed by four synced caprail guns.
I have seen zero argument as to why they shouldn't have the drain that they are described IN GAME to have. I'm ok with unlimited ammo, but not unlimited energy. Too OP.
Spamming 40k damage every 2.5 seconds for eternity with zero cost to the powercell of the ship you are flying isn't OP? Please tell me another weapon that even sets foot in the same universe of power, I must have missed it in the 10 years I have played VO. Try again.
The concern is not against small nimble ships -- it is as an anti-capship weapon. Capships are much larger targets who obviously cannot "strafe" to avoid incoming fire.
Capswarms aren't OP for several reasons, despite their higher damage: they can be outrun easily; you know when they are coming at you; they have a much smaller range; you can force their lock to drop by undocking or docking, etc etc. Complaints about being able to fire homing weapons can kindly be stuffed back up the ass they came out of. Homing weapons are part of the game and will continue to be so.
I think making turrets destroyable is a good idea as well, but it doesn't counter the danger posed by four synced caprail guns.
I have seen zero argument as to why they shouldn't have the drain that they are described IN GAME to have. I'm ok with unlimited ammo, but not unlimited energy. Too OP.
Why are you ok with magical unlimited ammo?
Clearly I killed one of your alts capships.
+1
Turrets should have a consumption on ship resources and it's entirely realistic that such consumption would have an impact to ship propulsion.
Turrets should have a consumption on ship resources and it's entirely realistic that such consumption would have an impact to ship propulsion.
Capswarms: Auto Aim, Auto tracking, can be fired rapidly using binds, require no gunners for use by the pilot -
CapRails: Manual Aim, no auto tracking, require gunners in turret to be effective, require strategic maneuvering to land all 4 at once (which is what you are basing your argument on) or even a single hit
" Capships are much larger targets who obviously cannot "strafe" to avoid incoming fire"
Your statement is equally true trying to keep the nose aligned on a target to land shots. As you are clearly not basing your argument on first hand experience I invite you to try and land 4 simultaneous caprail shots on a moving target from anything but point blank range.
I'd say that is plenty balanced.
CapRails: Manual Aim, no auto tracking, require gunners in turret to be effective, require strategic maneuvering to land all 4 at once (which is what you are basing your argument on) or even a single hit
" Capships are much larger targets who obviously cannot "strafe" to avoid incoming fire"
Your statement is equally true trying to keep the nose aligned on a target to land shots. As you are clearly not basing your argument on first hand experience I invite you to try and land 4 simultaneous caprail shots on a moving target from anything but point blank range.
I'd say that is plenty balanced.
Right, forgot this suggestion was about energy at first; I *DO* think they should use energy, but I always assumed turrets would have their own local energy pool, even if it is supplied grid by the capship. thus, while all four could continue to fire independently, they still need to balance their own rate of fire with their energy.
/shrugs/
/shrugs/
Capswarms: Auto Aim, Auto tracking, can be fired rapidly using binds, require no gunners for use by the pilot -
-cannot be fired rapidly because of the delay limit
CapRails: Manual Aim, no auto tracking, require gunners in turret to be effective, require strategic maneuvering to land all 4 at once (which is what you are basing your argument on) or even a single hit
These weapons are in no way equivocal dude. Caprails fire at 500% the speed of swarms, which more than makes up for the lack of ability to "auto aim" and "auto track" capships. "Strategic maneuvering" is arguable, since it's only required if your target capship is on the move -- which isn't always the case. And even then it's not an argument that overcomes the unfair exclusivity of being only available to someone with a 3rd party plugin and the knowhow to utilize it.
" Capships are much larger targets who obviously cannot "strafe" to avoid incoming fire"
Your statement is equally true trying to keep the nose aligned on a target to land shots. As you are clearly not basing your argument on first hand experience I invite you to try and land 4 simultaneous caprail shots on a moving target from anything but point blank range.
I'd say that is plenty balanced.
Just because landing shots is made more difficult by a target being in motion doesn't make the weapon use method any less OP. You can simply hold down "fire" and keep issuing 40k-damage shot after 40k-damage shot, every 2.5 seconds, hoping you land it without ANY energy drain. That's not how energy weapons have ever worked from the pilot seat, and by "pilot seat" I mean initiated by the pilot through a plugin remotely controlling the gunners' triggers.
-cannot be fired rapidly because of the delay limit
CapRails: Manual Aim, no auto tracking, require gunners in turret to be effective, require strategic maneuvering to land all 4 at once (which is what you are basing your argument on) or even a single hit
These weapons are in no way equivocal dude. Caprails fire at 500% the speed of swarms, which more than makes up for the lack of ability to "auto aim" and "auto track" capships. "Strategic maneuvering" is arguable, since it's only required if your target capship is on the move -- which isn't always the case. And even then it's not an argument that overcomes the unfair exclusivity of being only available to someone with a 3rd party plugin and the knowhow to utilize it.
" Capships are much larger targets who obviously cannot "strafe" to avoid incoming fire"
Your statement is equally true trying to keep the nose aligned on a target to land shots. As you are clearly not basing your argument on first hand experience I invite you to try and land 4 simultaneous caprail shots on a moving target from anything but point blank range.
I'd say that is plenty balanced.
Just because landing shots is made more difficult by a target being in motion doesn't make the weapon use method any less OP. You can simply hold down "fire" and keep issuing 40k-damage shot after 40k-damage shot, every 2.5 seconds, hoping you land it without ANY energy drain. That's not how energy weapons have ever worked from the pilot seat, and by "pilot seat" I mean initiated by the pilot through a plugin remotely controlling the gunners' triggers.
+1 BigNasty
+1