Forums » Suggestions
Deneb Instant Action
This is aimed at two perceived issues: new pilots sometimes feel training and tutorials can be a chore and the Deneb conflict can be somewhat devoid of players.
The simple idea is to allow recruits to remotely pilot a risk-free "drone" fighter ship that will be automatically injected into the Deneb conflict at any time. The drone should be something very basic: not what a career military pilot would bring to the front line. I suggest an EC-107 with dual Phase Blasters and a Light Powercell.
When this "Instant Action" option is accessed, the pilot will find him/herself launching from a capital ship in a real Deneb skirmish. The drone fighter will have its warp drive gutted and will not be allowed to leave the sector. Furthermore, if the drone fighter leaves radar range of all non-drone ships it will initiate a self-destruct sequence canceled only by re-entering radar range (no "spacing out"). Docking with a capital ship will automatically repair and relaunch the drone (no manning turrets - this is mostly to prevent players from jamming the enemy's cargo hold). Kills and other positive stats will show up under the pilot's real name; deaths will not count toward decreasing a side's victory bar (no target dummies), but would ideally still show up as kills for the opposing pilot. Rather than PKs, perhaps an entirely new category endemic to the Deneb conflict would be invented: "drone kills".
When the drone fighter dies, the pilot will find him/herself back wherever s/he initiated the "Instant Action" from. UIT pilots would not be able to partake in Instant Action, I think, until they voluntarily choose a side at Combat 3.
I had initially imagined the mission board to be the most logical place for such an option to exist, but it could be anywhere; the idea is that new pilots raring for actual, epic combat be given that opportunity as soon as they embark on the training sector. It is risk-free, but has the potential to have some impact and will track the pilot's performance without encroaching on the career path of pilots who bring more serious rigs to the Deneb front line.
Lastly, lest any think I aim to devalue the process of the Training missions: this is meant as a meaningful diversion, something which can be done alongside progressing down the Training path for Itani and Serco pilots (who are at war). It would be obvious as such under the interface. I exclude UIT pilots in the beginning because I think choosing an ostensibly neutral trading nation would incline one less toward battle action and this avoids the dilemma of choosing a side until the pilot has the option of doing so at Combat 3.
The simple idea is to allow recruits to remotely pilot a risk-free "drone" fighter ship that will be automatically injected into the Deneb conflict at any time. The drone should be something very basic: not what a career military pilot would bring to the front line. I suggest an EC-107 with dual Phase Blasters and a Light Powercell.
When this "Instant Action" option is accessed, the pilot will find him/herself launching from a capital ship in a real Deneb skirmish. The drone fighter will have its warp drive gutted and will not be allowed to leave the sector. Furthermore, if the drone fighter leaves radar range of all non-drone ships it will initiate a self-destruct sequence canceled only by re-entering radar range (no "spacing out"). Docking with a capital ship will automatically repair and relaunch the drone (no manning turrets - this is mostly to prevent players from jamming the enemy's cargo hold). Kills and other positive stats will show up under the pilot's real name; deaths will not count toward decreasing a side's victory bar (no target dummies), but would ideally still show up as kills for the opposing pilot. Rather than PKs, perhaps an entirely new category endemic to the Deneb conflict would be invented: "drone kills".
When the drone fighter dies, the pilot will find him/herself back wherever s/he initiated the "Instant Action" from. UIT pilots would not be able to partake in Instant Action, I think, until they voluntarily choose a side at Combat 3.
I had initially imagined the mission board to be the most logical place for such an option to exist, but it could be anywhere; the idea is that new pilots raring for actual, epic combat be given that opportunity as soon as they embark on the training sector. It is risk-free, but has the potential to have some impact and will track the pilot's performance without encroaching on the career path of pilots who bring more serious rigs to the Deneb front line.
Lastly, lest any think I aim to devalue the process of the Training missions: this is meant as a meaningful diversion, something which can be done alongside progressing down the Training path for Itani and Serco pilots (who are at war). It would be obvious as such under the interface. I exclude UIT pilots in the beginning because I think choosing an ostensibly neutral trading nation would incline one less toward battle action and this avoids the dilemma of choosing a side until the pilot has the option of doing so at Combat 3.
since the EC107 is tied to a badge and is an elite ship and all, why not make a new variant specific to deneb with lower stats? They are going to be free after all. Also, the mission should mention (every time it is taken) that these are free ships for this purpose, and that they should work on their skills so they can come in a real ship. on top of that, since its "instant action" and all, it shouldnt reward as much as standard training or other missions.
the only other issue I see is pilots with weak devices complaining about their framerate, which is really their own fault, but still. I dunno how small of a skirmish the devs would want, so I'd leave that decision up to them.
however, +1 overall, though I still think new pilots must have completed at least Tutorial II before doing anything.
the only other issue I see is pilots with weak devices complaining about their framerate, which is really their own fault, but still. I dunno how small of a skirmish the devs would want, so I'd leave that decision up to them.
however, +1 overall, though I still think new pilots must have completed at least Tutorial II before doing anything.
+1
I personally think letting them take control of an IBG or SVG (depending on faction) wouldn't be too over-kill. I mean, these ships are not configurable nor can they be kept, but they are ships that even a F2P player can get eventually. As for counting kills and new stats, my thoughts would be rather not. I mean, sure they can influence the outcome of the battle by killing ships, but no more than an NPC can and should not be tracked in any shape or form apart from in the score for that round. (No PK's for people killing them either, they should count as bot kills)
You really do not want to give any rewards combat-wise, apart from the experience of the fight and the instant fun factor. Otherwise what is to make people actually participate in the real battle? If there is a "stat" to grind, it will be ground. But apart from that I've long thought something like this should be in-place, like the Wing Commander "simulator" suggestion from long ago, but using Deneb? Hell yeah.
I personally think letting them take control of an IBG or SVG (depending on faction) wouldn't be too over-kill. I mean, these ships are not configurable nor can they be kept, but they are ships that even a F2P player can get eventually. As for counting kills and new stats, my thoughts would be rather not. I mean, sure they can influence the outcome of the battle by killing ships, but no more than an NPC can and should not be tracked in any shape or form apart from in the score for that round. (No PK's for people killing them either, they should count as bot kills)
You really do not want to give any rewards combat-wise, apart from the experience of the fight and the instant fun factor. Otherwise what is to make people actually participate in the real battle? If there is a "stat" to grind, it will be ground. But apart from that I've long thought something like this should be in-place, like the Wing Commander "simulator" suggestion from long ago, but using Deneb? Hell yeah.
-1
This is a slippery slope. Once you allow people to teleport their consciousness across the universe instantly for deneb, they will start expecting to be able to do that in other areas of game.
This is a slippery slope. Once you allow people to teleport their consciousness across the universe instantly for deneb, they will start expecting to be able to do that in other areas of game.
+1 Phaserlight but with Yoda's Idea
I'm in support of instant teleporting to Deneb/Geira area stations if it's available to all players... Throwing a bone like this only to new players with all the proposed caveats (risk-free, no pk's if someone kills them, crap ship/weapons) is only at best a half-measure for player retention, and I doubt its effectiveness.
That said, I do agree generally that making changes to that game that are more in line with the minimized attention spans of the younger generations, but they can't/shouldn't be isolated to new players.
The problem is there is likely too much righteous clinging to immersion ideals for those changes to be made (assuming the resources existed to make such changes in the first place).
That said, I do agree generally that making changes to that game that are more in line with the minimized attention spans of the younger generations, but they can't/shouldn't be isolated to new players.
The problem is there is likely too much righteous clinging to immersion ideals for those changes to be made (assuming the resources existed to make such changes in the first place).
To be clear, I'm not suggesting this be available only to new players: just that it is available from the start for Itani/Serco, and from Combat 3 and on for UIT. I am also not suggesting pilots teleport per se; rather they would be temporarily remote-controlling a drone confined to a single space sector in which a battle is taking place.
Being severely outgunned is a balance measure against the convenience of being 'instantly there'. My suspicion is players wouldn't mind this too much; does anyone remember the teaser demo for X-Com: Terror from the Deep (one was given starter equipment against top tier foes)? By this suggestion, if a pilot wants to bring a more competitive/influential rig to the front line then s/he would need to fly it there.
At any rate it is mostly aimed at mitigating 'I bought a manual' type reviews; Vendetta has awesome scaled combat (by this I mean anything greater than 2v2 PvP), but it seems players who have gained their bearings in the universe at intervals do not get this aside from a scripted preview during the intro.
Being severely outgunned is a balance measure against the convenience of being 'instantly there'. My suspicion is players wouldn't mind this too much; does anyone remember the teaser demo for X-Com: Terror from the Deep (one was given starter equipment against top tier foes)? By this suggestion, if a pilot wants to bring a more competitive/influential rig to the front line then s/he would need to fly it there.
At any rate it is mostly aimed at mitigating 'I bought a manual' type reviews; Vendetta has awesome scaled combat (by this I mean anything greater than 2v2 PvP), but it seems players who have gained their bearings in the universe at intervals do not get this aside from a scripted preview during the intro.
Ok, so if it's available to all players, then the two most compelling reasons to engage in this feature would be to A) observe an active battle and B) to do recon and see if enemy targets are active.
A) is only of interest to new players
B) while a feature I've long wanted (the generic, and half-broken asterisk indicator is mostly useless), I think many would view this as highly exploitable. Too easy to click a button and see if it's worthwhile flying up to Deneb or switching over to an alt.
Questions that come to mind:
-Can drones dock with player-owned capships?
-Can drones damage same-nation ships, and incur consequences from doing so?
Even if they are subpar combat ships, they would still possess the ability to impact the battle positively or negatively for either side. Some might argue that allowing this ability (even if very handicapped) without any consequence is exploitable.
-Why would this instant-access drone technology only exist for Deneb and not other areas of the universe? Why would the drones not be available in more advanced designs / armaments?
Yes, I know there is no sound in space, etc., but it still bears considering -- especially when such kinds of insta-access to other areas would have very interesting and potentially beneficial effects on gameplay.
Why risk-free?
The newb sectors are acceptable from a gameplay perspective because they are essentially completely separate and inaccessible to the rest of the gameplay. There newbs are free to fuck around and do whatever they want (without any consequences) and they have no effect on the rest of us. Giving insta-access to a fully pilot-able, damage causing ship in Deneb crosses this line of separation. I think the moment you allow someone to impact the gameplay of others, a consequence of that impact needs to be possible.
A) is only of interest to new players
B) while a feature I've long wanted (the generic, and half-broken asterisk indicator is mostly useless), I think many would view this as highly exploitable. Too easy to click a button and see if it's worthwhile flying up to Deneb or switching over to an alt.
Questions that come to mind:
-Can drones dock with player-owned capships?
-Can drones damage same-nation ships, and incur consequences from doing so?
Even if they are subpar combat ships, they would still possess the ability to impact the battle positively or negatively for either side. Some might argue that allowing this ability (even if very handicapped) without any consequence is exploitable.
-Why would this instant-access drone technology only exist for Deneb and not other areas of the universe? Why would the drones not be available in more advanced designs / armaments?
Yes, I know there is no sound in space, etc., but it still bears considering -- especially when such kinds of insta-access to other areas would have very interesting and potentially beneficial effects on gameplay.
Why risk-free?
The newb sectors are acceptable from a gameplay perspective because they are essentially completely separate and inaccessible to the rest of the gameplay. There newbs are free to fuck around and do whatever they want (without any consequences) and they have no effect on the rest of us. Giving insta-access to a fully pilot-able, damage causing ship in Deneb crosses this line of separation. I think the moment you allow someone to impact the gameplay of others, a consequence of that impact needs to be possible.
At any rate it is mostly aimed at mitigating 'I bought a manual' type reviews; Vendetta has awesome scaled combat (by this I mean anything greater than 2v2 PvP), but it seems players who have gained their bearings in the universe at intervals do not get this aside from a scripted preview during the intro.
Then why not have a single, ongoing AI battle that only newbs can be teleported to engage in as you lay out? If they want to try the real thing they grind up their levels and trot over the Deneb in the traditional way.
Then why not have a single, ongoing AI battle that only newbs can be teleported to engage in as you lay out? If they want to try the real thing they grind up their levels and trot over the Deneb in the traditional way.
Briefly:
-Can drones dock with player-owned capships? - Yes, but they will be immediately repaired and relaunched (no controlling turrets or clogging cargo space).
-Can drones damage same-nation ships, - Yes
and incur consequences from doing so? - Only under the normal Deneb rules. A player who repeatedly does this might be barred from using the "Instant Action" feature for a time.
-why not have a single, ongoing AI battle that only newbs can be teleported to - Something like this has been hinted at for a long time and I expect the devs might end up going this route. However, it looks like an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone: make Deneb more alive and give new players more of that battle sequence they see in the intro. It's convergent rather than divergent if that makes any sense, although I don't see a reason both couldn't coexist.
-Giving insta-access to a fully pilot-able, damage causing ship in Deneb crosses this line of separation.
Yes, it would be a pretty big change. However, this seems like it would be possible to balance via available equipment; e.g. how big of a concern is something on the level of a EC-107 with two Phase Blasters and a Light cell? It could be tweaked as necessary. My hope would be to see dozens of players flying in Deneb skirmishes on average. One day, perhaps even hundreds. How many of these drones is one pilot flying advanced equipment worth? If the devs want to get really elaborate there could even be a selection of drone ships from which to choose.
While it does cross the training sector line of separation, the effects would be focused on Deneb. I could be totally off the beam, but it lines up too perfectly not to mention.
-Why would this instant-access drone technology only exist for Deneb and not other areas of the universe?
Deneb is a war zone; if in the expanded universe (VO 2.0 if you will) other star systems become war zones perhaps drone technology would be applied there as well. The important thing is that no goods can leave the sector via drones, and nothing can enter the sector via drones except the drones themselves.
-Why would the drones not be available in more advanced designs / armaments? - Balance
-Why risk-free? - These drones would be of low power, and anything that goes behind the Training process ought to be risk-free.
-Can drones dock with player-owned capships? - Yes, but they will be immediately repaired and relaunched (no controlling turrets or clogging cargo space).
-Can drones damage same-nation ships, - Yes
and incur consequences from doing so? - Only under the normal Deneb rules. A player who repeatedly does this might be barred from using the "Instant Action" feature for a time.
-why not have a single, ongoing AI battle that only newbs can be teleported to - Something like this has been hinted at for a long time and I expect the devs might end up going this route. However, it looks like an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone: make Deneb more alive and give new players more of that battle sequence they see in the intro. It's convergent rather than divergent if that makes any sense, although I don't see a reason both couldn't coexist.
-Giving insta-access to a fully pilot-able, damage causing ship in Deneb crosses this line of separation.
Yes, it would be a pretty big change. However, this seems like it would be possible to balance via available equipment; e.g. how big of a concern is something on the level of a EC-107 with two Phase Blasters and a Light cell? It could be tweaked as necessary. My hope would be to see dozens of players flying in Deneb skirmishes on average. One day, perhaps even hundreds. How many of these drones is one pilot flying advanced equipment worth? If the devs want to get really elaborate there could even be a selection of drone ships from which to choose.
While it does cross the training sector line of separation, the effects would be focused on Deneb. I could be totally off the beam, but it lines up too perfectly not to mention.
-Why would this instant-access drone technology only exist for Deneb and not other areas of the universe?
Deneb is a war zone; if in the expanded universe (VO 2.0 if you will) other star systems become war zones perhaps drone technology would be applied there as well. The important thing is that no goods can leave the sector via drones, and nothing can enter the sector via drones except the drones themselves.
-Why would the drones not be available in more advanced designs / armaments? - Balance
-Why risk-free? - These drones would be of low power, and anything that goes behind the Training process ought to be risk-free.
Well if a normal deneb-playing individual was low on armor and was killed by a lucky shot from a newb drone at an opportune moment (i.e. that could have turned the entire battle and then sent a war convoy off, or that could prevented normal deneb-playing individual from saving their capship, etc), said normal deneb-playing individual would be pissed. Restricting traditional deneb-playing individuals from getting PKs for eliminating potential newb drone threats (who can make much smarter decisions than the AI, regardless of the crappy ship and weapons at hand) doesn't seem right. Even if you took away the weapons a ship can be used to keep shields from regenerating by exploding or touching the hull. You know there are people who would exploit such things.
I think if you destroy a human-piloted craft it should count as a PK.
Also, it would seem that these drone players would be able to spawn in the sector far quicker than a traditional player would (who has to fly there from a station sector)... also possibly exploitable at opportune moments.
I think if you destroy a human-piloted craft it should count as a PK.
Also, it would seem that these drone players would be able to spawn in the sector far quicker than a traditional player would (who has to fly there from a station sector)... also possibly exploitable at opportune moments.
Then add a 1-minute reset time to these drones per pilot.
You got that goddamned right, greenwall! It would open up opportunities for spectacular exploitations at an unprecedented level!
This could trigger a sieger vs kierky kill count controversy all over again.
This could trigger a sieger vs kierky kill count controversy all over again.
+1
I do think that access to this feature should require being present at a training, barracks, or capital station owned by the nation whose military you have joined. There should also be immediate penalties to friendly fire in order to prevent abuse. If you land the killing blow or contribute more than 20% damage to a friendly, you should be instantly kicked out and banned from the feature for at least ten minutes. You can spend that time finishing the tutorials or practicing on the bots outside.
I do think that access to this feature should require being present at a training, barracks, or capital station owned by the nation whose military you have joined. There should also be immediate penalties to friendly fire in order to prevent abuse. If you land the killing blow or contribute more than 20% damage to a friendly, you should be instantly kicked out and banned from the feature for at least ten minutes. You can spend that time finishing the tutorials or practicing on the bots outside.
What happened to "don't stretch my immersion bro" Rin? I think an impostor is logged in...
If you want more combat, you're going to need more PC players. Even brand new players who start on PC are well above the ability to interact with the universe compared to other platforms.
It has less to do with all players thinking it is a chore, and the stark reality that a majority of those who login are playing with a severe input handicap(mouselook+USB inputs{keyboard/footpeddles} vs controller+touch).
Creating a window of exploitation, or further destroying "immersion" isn't going to help.
It has less to do with all players thinking it is a chore, and the stark reality that a majority of those who login are playing with a severe input handicap(mouselook+USB inputs{keyboard/footpeddles} vs controller+touch).
Creating a window of exploitation, or further destroying "immersion" isn't going to help.
I just don't think flooding Deneb with a bunch of noob ships that don't bear PKs helps the Deneb situation at all. It's not an improvement, and certainly wouldn't inspire me to participate there.
I just don't think flooding Deneb with a bunch of noob ships that don't bear PKs helps the Deneb situation at all. It's not an improvement, and certainly wouldn't inspire me to participate there.
This is one of extremely rare times that I actually agree with you, greenwall. It must be a cold day in hell.
This is one of extremely rare times that I actually agree with you, greenwall. It must be a cold day in hell.
"What happened to "don't stretch my immersion bro" Rin? I think an impostor is logged in..."
Immersion isn't quite the right word for why I normally object to things like this. Traveling is a key part of the game, something to be embellished, not eliminated. When you skip over the travel, you're skipping over chances to bump into other players and have fun interactions. Allowing people to teleport also undermines things like blockades, piracy, and territory control. (Yes, the home station mechanic already hurts this stuff, and I do feel we should find a solution for that sometime.)
I don't object to this particular suggestion because it seems like something that few people would use once they've progressed to the point that they're actually traveling outside their capital systems.
Immersion isn't quite the right word for why I normally object to things like this. Traveling is a key part of the game, something to be embellished, not eliminated. When you skip over the travel, you're skipping over chances to bump into other players and have fun interactions. Allowing people to teleport also undermines things like blockades, piracy, and territory control. (Yes, the home station mechanic already hurts this stuff, and I do feel we should find a solution for that sometime.)
I don't object to this particular suggestion because it seems like something that few people would use once they've progressed to the point that they're actually traveling outside their capital systems.