Forums » Suggestions
Re-Using old ship assets
Heya,
Lotsa players in vo are here for a very long time. Whilst the behaviour of the community occasionally lacks maturity *stifles a small giggle* it does seem the actual age of the players is not generally as young as a lot of games - some of us have been here ten years or more.
The reason i mention this is that over that time people become both accustomed and attached to the original ship meshes. I think for the most part the updates have been cool, looking better than originals, but certainly in the case of fighter ships it seems a shame to condemn those old models to oblivion.
So why not keep them in game? We could have one of two ways to do it...
1) use the old ship assets for all mk1 edition ships that have at least a mk2 version. This would logically appear as if it were really upgraded - no mk2 car is ever the exact same shape as the mk1.
2) create a nostalgia station, maybe under the guise of a scrap merchan maybe, selling all original mesh ships with all versions i.e. marks 1-4, but NOT special editions, those should use the newest updated mesh. A neutral hidden station with "unaligned" faction, somewhere that would definitely incite station mining and camping... But it would not matter, as its not gonna be the biggsst issue if it cant be accessed temporarily as it has been mined hehe
Either way... We have the superbus, and the wraith, both ships that appear to be a throwback to the old days, and i like this quaint remembrance... Why not do the same with all updated ship models?
Except maybe the Atlas... That shits ugly hehehehehe
Lotsa players in vo are here for a very long time. Whilst the behaviour of the community occasionally lacks maturity *stifles a small giggle* it does seem the actual age of the players is not generally as young as a lot of games - some of us have been here ten years or more.
The reason i mention this is that over that time people become both accustomed and attached to the original ship meshes. I think for the most part the updates have been cool, looking better than originals, but certainly in the case of fighter ships it seems a shame to condemn those old models to oblivion.
So why not keep them in game? We could have one of two ways to do it...
1) use the old ship assets for all mk1 edition ships that have at least a mk2 version. This would logically appear as if it were really upgraded - no mk2 car is ever the exact same shape as the mk1.
2) create a nostalgia station, maybe under the guise of a scrap merchan maybe, selling all original mesh ships with all versions i.e. marks 1-4, but NOT special editions, those should use the newest updated mesh. A neutral hidden station with "unaligned" faction, somewhere that would definitely incite station mining and camping... But it would not matter, as its not gonna be the biggsst issue if it cant be accessed temporarily as it has been mined hehe
Either way... We have the superbus, and the wraith, both ships that appear to be a throwback to the old days, and i like this quaint remembrance... Why not do the same with all updated ship models?
Except maybe the Atlas... That shits ugly hehehehehe
Wouldnt that increase the client size a bunch though? Incarnate had mentioned that as an issue in another thread, and while i wouldnt mind, i'm sure there must be some people out there who have issues with the game's size as it is.
Though, its only around 300mb, while other mmos generally sit around 4-5gb for the crappy ones, or 2-3 on android...
Though, its only around 300mb, while other mmos generally sit around 4-5gb for the crappy ones, or 2-3 on android...
It would and inc said he wouldnt do that (back when the vult changed) because of mobile users and what not.
I dont really mind, we have the original EC and wraith still kickin around, dont need every ships ugly cousin.
I dont really mind, we have the original EC and wraith still kickin around, dont need every ships ugly cousin.
This is just a copy paste from when i said this in another thread.
If there is one complaint I've never heard, it's 'oh wow, there's too many ship choices'. So don't remove the old ships, just add the others as new ships nearly statistically identical to the older ones.
I'll use the Rag for example, I'll just call it's replacement the Towel for right now.
In barracks and capitol stations, both the rag and the Towel will be available.
In research and commercial stations, only the newer towel is available.
In mining stations, only the older rag is available.
The only difference I'd make would be in costs. The Towel has been made cheaper to manufacture, so lower purchase price. The Rag, being of an older design, is cheaper to repair due to there being TONS of parts floating around. Maybe change around the weapon port locations too.
Something like that would actually be a net addition of content, unlike the change from the wraith to the revenant.
In addition, backwater stations, or the conquerable stations, could end up being the only places to get the older ships. The idea being, the original producers sold off the tooling to some smaller outfit.
Previously posted here:
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23670?page=2#295039
And earlier here:
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/23600#293755
If there is one complaint I've never heard, it's 'oh wow, there's too many ship choices'. So don't remove the old ships, just add the others as new ships nearly statistically identical to the older ones.
I'll use the Rag for example, I'll just call it's replacement the Towel for right now.
In barracks and capitol stations, both the rag and the Towel will be available.
In research and commercial stations, only the newer towel is available.
In mining stations, only the older rag is available.
The only difference I'd make would be in costs. The Towel has been made cheaper to manufacture, so lower purchase price. The Rag, being of an older design, is cheaper to repair due to there being TONS of parts floating around. Maybe change around the weapon port locations too.
Something like that would actually be a net addition of content, unlike the change from the wraith to the revenant.
In addition, backwater stations, or the conquerable stations, could end up being the only places to get the older ships. The idea being, the original producers sold off the tooling to some smaller outfit.
Previously posted here:
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23670?page=2#295039
And earlier here:
https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/23600#293755
nope let the old crappy design fade away.
+1 DeathSpores
There was a very similar thread in which Incarnate has stated:
"...The notion that I would ever imply that I will maintain any graphical assets.. forever, is ludicrous. Let me be clear: IF POSSIBLE, I WILL CHANGE EVERY PIXEL IN THIS GAME. I am not here to cater to a sense of nostalgia, nor am I here to keep dated assets around for some odd sense of differentiation and "oldschool superiority". There is no graphic I will not change, no dated thing I won't replace for the sake of improving the game. As far as I'm concerned, that violates neither the spirit, nor the words of my previous promises, and honestly.. it's my freaking mandate as head of development."
Furthermore, "We cannot keep all old assets around forever. Game download size directly impacts new user acquisition and other business well-being (and we've actually been bitten badly on this already). Visual consistency is nice too. Yes, we've kept things around in the past. No, we're not going to do that as much in the future."
Lastly, It's not like I sit around saying "everyone wants new gameplay changes, but instead we'll take a beloved ship and totally change it and piss people off! MUAHAHAH." I also don't sit around sticking my hand into a blender.
Stuff is going to change. You've all been asking for this for years, and despite the lack of recent evidence, it's my main goal.
All quotes taken from this thread.
In short, I think that's a fairly hard "no" from Inc.
In my own humble opinion, I can't see why people would want to keep around the old assets, yet still expect the game to grow both technically and expand its user base . Most of the original ship assets were amateurish at best, even in 2003. First impressions, especially in dealing with the public are largely based on visuals. VO essentially has a dedicated artist and the technology is in place to meet Incarnate's vision, so why not? It's 2017, if VO wants to earn the "Massive" in MMORPG it has to change visually, and not cater to a subset of vocal old-timers. That's just my two cents.
"...The notion that I would ever imply that I will maintain any graphical assets.. forever, is ludicrous. Let me be clear: IF POSSIBLE, I WILL CHANGE EVERY PIXEL IN THIS GAME. I am not here to cater to a sense of nostalgia, nor am I here to keep dated assets around for some odd sense of differentiation and "oldschool superiority". There is no graphic I will not change, no dated thing I won't replace for the sake of improving the game. As far as I'm concerned, that violates neither the spirit, nor the words of my previous promises, and honestly.. it's my freaking mandate as head of development."
Furthermore, "We cannot keep all old assets around forever. Game download size directly impacts new user acquisition and other business well-being (and we've actually been bitten badly on this already). Visual consistency is nice too. Yes, we've kept things around in the past. No, we're not going to do that as much in the future."
Lastly, It's not like I sit around saying "everyone wants new gameplay changes, but instead we'll take a beloved ship and totally change it and piss people off! MUAHAHAH." I also don't sit around sticking my hand into a blender.
Stuff is going to change. You've all been asking for this for years, and despite the lack of recent evidence, it's my main goal.
All quotes taken from this thread.
In short, I think that's a fairly hard "no" from Inc.
In my own humble opinion, I can't see why people would want to keep around the old assets, yet still expect the game to grow both technically and expand its user base . Most of the original ship assets were amateurish at best, even in 2003. First impressions, especially in dealing with the public are largely based on visuals. VO essentially has a dedicated artist and the technology is in place to meet Incarnate's vision, so why not? It's 2017, if VO wants to earn the "Massive" in MMORPG it has to change visually, and not cater to a subset of vocal old-timers. That's just my two cents.
Basically, no. As A-Dawg says:
First impressions, especially in dealing with the public are largely based on visuals.
We've been getting blasted in reviews frequently for years, for "make better graphics!". And that's on mobile, where you'd think the bar wasn't really that high anyway.
After I let the PCC give away the EC-88, I later had to go to some lengths to wrangle it off to a distant area and keep it out of the ship-list, because of immediate new-user reaction to seeing that as the first listed option.
I'm not going to be doing that for every other ship. We're improving things. Most of the time, people have been liking the new stuff better.. that's cool. But regardless, it's progress, and the new stuff is replacing the old stuff.
The biggest "nods" to nostalgia I'm willing to make are the fact that the new designs are strongly reminiscent of the old ones.
There are also sometimes technical challenges. Like the simplistic way we did a material effect for a ship.. 15 years ago, is not the "high-fidelity" way we do it now. But that means we still have to maintain old shader code for the old-ship that still uses the old-asset way of rendering. That increases maintenance, Q/A headache, etc.
Anyway, while I support the fond memories of historic battles and gameplay: No, I don't really want to do the OP suggestion.
First impressions, especially in dealing with the public are largely based on visuals.
We've been getting blasted in reviews frequently for years, for "make better graphics!". And that's on mobile, where you'd think the bar wasn't really that high anyway.
After I let the PCC give away the EC-88, I later had to go to some lengths to wrangle it off to a distant area and keep it out of the ship-list, because of immediate new-user reaction to seeing that as the first listed option.
I'm not going to be doing that for every other ship. We're improving things. Most of the time, people have been liking the new stuff better.. that's cool. But regardless, it's progress, and the new stuff is replacing the old stuff.
The biggest "nods" to nostalgia I'm willing to make are the fact that the new designs are strongly reminiscent of the old ones.
There are also sometimes technical challenges. Like the simplistic way we did a material effect for a ship.. 15 years ago, is not the "high-fidelity" way we do it now. But that means we still have to maintain old shader code for the old-ship that still uses the old-asset way of rendering. That increases maintenance, Q/A headache, etc.
Anyway, while I support the fond memories of historic battles and gameplay: No, I don't really want to do the OP suggestion.
Hehehehe i respect a strong opinion, and altho i disagree, you da boss :)
Whilst I agree with Inc that all old assets should be forgotten. I think the ec-88 is cool in the same way a VW campervan is cool and everyone should be able to buy one anywhere anytime they like (except in the training sectors) in that way It wouldn't be the first thing noobs see
Drevent, of course it would be the first thing - it was right up top of every station's list. I agree that its cool, but leaving it in a single sector's store is fine enough.