Forums » Suggestions
Add a time out for F2P guild demotions.
Just in regards to a little 100 chat I saw, and this has actually happened to one of my own accounts (not that I personally cared at the time). When a F2P account expires, it is still possible to log in (even on PC) and screw a guild up without realising it.
A few ideas could be implemented, I guess the easiest one is to simply let F2P users hold a guild position if they already have one but I guess this may take some much needed revenue away from GS; so one idea is to give them some time to rectify this situation.
Add a time out before the character is demoted to a regular member. I would suggest a week, as this gives a person plenty of time to re-sub if they need to. Warn them on every log in that this is the case, and remind them to re-new a subscription or they will lose their position. Might not be a perfect solution still, but should give F2P accounts a bit more of a warning before they kill a guild by pure mistake. Make this countdown start after the first time they log in after an account expiry, not on account expiry.
A few ideas could be implemented, I guess the easiest one is to simply let F2P users hold a guild position if they already have one but I guess this may take some much needed revenue away from GS; so one idea is to give them some time to rectify this situation.
Add a time out before the character is demoted to a regular member. I would suggest a week, as this gives a person plenty of time to re-sub if they need to. Warn them on every log in that this is the case, and remind them to re-new a subscription or they will lose their position. Might not be a perfect solution still, but should give F2P accounts a bit more of a warning before they kill a guild by pure mistake. Make this countdown start after the first time they log in after an account expiry, not on account expiry.
+1. I don't see why not.
I do fundamentally agree with the goal of improving this UX issue.
Make this countdown start after the first time they log in after an account expiry, not on account expiry.
Just to point out, this would have the same effect in terms of reducing revenue, as one would not need to maintain a subscription to serve as guild leadership (as long as they avoid logging in). Especially if one created the guild with trial accounts, or friend-keys or something. There seem to be a lot of accusations of "fake" guilds as it is.
Make this countdown start after the first time they log in after an account expiry, not on account expiry.
Just to point out, this would have the same effect in terms of reducing revenue, as one would not need to maintain a subscription to serve as guild leadership (as long as they avoid logging in). Especially if one created the guild with trial accounts, or friend-keys or something. There seem to be a lot of accusations of "fake" guilds as it is.
I agree that this idea is not the best, as I said above. But it could do with looking into, especially as the things you mention are already possible and do happen. (See the guilds TIT and ASS - both these guilds have council compromised of either inactive subscriptions or trials).
Do not worry people, I am not grassing anyone up, those are both my own guilds created with trial/old accounts that are both still perfectly healthy. It also seems if the commander never logs in, or the commander actually leaves the guild then the guild breakup countdown never starts either, so falling below 6 council also does not abort the guild like it should. If a PC players account "expires" this will also not currently cause a guild to fold, as the commanders/council cannot log in to trigger the demotions.
Anywho, this thread isn't really about all the nit pickings we could have with the current guild system, it is more of a band aid than a fix too, but like you have agreed this does need addressing. So if anyone has a better idea that does not involve GS losing income, it would be great if they could post it, it may just be the answer. Or maybe simply start the week timer as soon as expiry happens, and email the registered users email address? I don't know, but currently it is a lot harder for F2P account subscribers to maintain a guild than it is for PC accounts, no matter which way you look at it.
[edit]
Of course another solution would be to just make all accounts the same type (F2P) no matter how they sign up (past and future). Give accounts that sign up on the website an 8 hour PC trial as now, but after the trial ends bump them to the F2P tier (no PC access but F2P on other devices). This would probably involve (me presuming with no knowledge again) re-writing the sign-up or account creation process which is ancient code, but would put all players on an even keel when it comes to guild management.
Do not worry people, I am not grassing anyone up, those are both my own guilds created with trial/old accounts that are both still perfectly healthy. It also seems if the commander never logs in, or the commander actually leaves the guild then the guild breakup countdown never starts either, so falling below 6 council also does not abort the guild like it should. If a PC players account "expires" this will also not currently cause a guild to fold, as the commanders/council cannot log in to trigger the demotions.
Anywho, this thread isn't really about all the nit pickings we could have with the current guild system, it is more of a band aid than a fix too, but like you have agreed this does need addressing. So if anyone has a better idea that does not involve GS losing income, it would be great if they could post it, it may just be the answer. Or maybe simply start the week timer as soon as expiry happens, and email the registered users email address? I don't know, but currently it is a lot harder for F2P account subscribers to maintain a guild than it is for PC accounts, no matter which way you look at it.
[edit]
Of course another solution would be to just make all accounts the same type (F2P) no matter how they sign up (past and future). Give accounts that sign up on the website an 8 hour PC trial as now, but after the trial ends bump them to the F2P tier (no PC access but F2P on other devices). This would probably involve (me presuming with no knowledge again) re-writing the sign-up or account creation process which is ancient code, but would put all players on an even keel when it comes to guild management.
+1
Especially if one created the guild with trial accounts, or friend-keys or something. There seem to be a lot of accusations of "fake" guilds as it is.
No offense intended, but this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how fake guilds get formed and is an example of how the intended fix actually hurts the people that choose to throw money at you.
First, let's look at the easiest way to create a fake guild. A guild can only be created by a paid account, but accounts in trial status created from a PC can join a guild because they are neither F2P or Lite accounts. To create the fake guild, you need two things:
1) A unique email address
2) A second device capable of playing at the same time as your subscribed account.
Item 1 is easy to accomplish. Let's assume you have myemail@gmail.com. Gmail uses +aliasing. This means that myemail+anything@gmail.com always goes to myemail@gmail.com but for the purpose of Vendetta, it is a unique account. The user can log in to the site, create fake account for myemail+fake1@gmail.com, myemail+fake2@gmail.com etc until you get 9 accounts.
Item 2 is similarly easy to accomplish. With your paid account, log in on mobile. Using your non-mobile device, log in on the each of the trial accounts and send yourself an invite from your phone to the fake account. Accept. Rinse. Repeat.
Congratulations, you now have a fake guild.
Now, let's look at how this hurts legitimate players. Those trial accounts never lose their officer status. If they never log in again, they continue to be officers. By contrast, the real guilds who have officers with players who started mobile and then chose to subscribe risk disbanding because a legitimate player had a lapse in their subscription.
Yoda's suggestion, while admittedly not perfect, does address problem of trial accounts by making all accounts default to either FTP or Lite status. But it's still penalizing guilds that formed with players who chose to pay but for one reason or another unsubscribed. Their only crime is starting on a mobile device which is arguably VO's target state platform.
The better fix is as Yoda suggested, have some sort of grace period and guild notification to address the problem instead of ninja-nuking guilds with demoted officers.
Sorry to any fake guilds that get nuked if they fix the mechanics of fake guildery..
Especially if one created the guild with trial accounts, or friend-keys or something. There seem to be a lot of accusations of "fake" guilds as it is.
No offense intended, but this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how fake guilds get formed and is an example of how the intended fix actually hurts the people that choose to throw money at you.
First, let's look at the easiest way to create a fake guild. A guild can only be created by a paid account, but accounts in trial status created from a PC can join a guild because they are neither F2P or Lite accounts. To create the fake guild, you need two things:
1) A unique email address
2) A second device capable of playing at the same time as your subscribed account.
Item 1 is easy to accomplish. Let's assume you have myemail@gmail.com. Gmail uses +aliasing. This means that myemail+anything@gmail.com always goes to myemail@gmail.com but for the purpose of Vendetta, it is a unique account. The user can log in to the site, create fake account for myemail+fake1@gmail.com, myemail+fake2@gmail.com etc until you get 9 accounts.
Item 2 is similarly easy to accomplish. With your paid account, log in on mobile. Using your non-mobile device, log in on the each of the trial accounts and send yourself an invite from your phone to the fake account. Accept. Rinse. Repeat.
Congratulations, you now have a fake guild.
Now, let's look at how this hurts legitimate players. Those trial accounts never lose their officer status. If they never log in again, they continue to be officers. By contrast, the real guilds who have officers with players who started mobile and then chose to subscribe risk disbanding because a legitimate player had a lapse in their subscription.
Yoda's suggestion, while admittedly not perfect, does address problem of trial accounts by making all accounts default to either FTP or Lite status. But it's still penalizing guilds that formed with players who chose to pay but for one reason or another unsubscribed. Their only crime is starting on a mobile device which is arguably VO's target state platform.
The better fix is as Yoda suggested, have some sort of grace period and guild notification to address the problem instead of ninja-nuking guilds with demoted officers.
Sorry to any fake guilds that get nuked if they fix the mechanics of fake guildery..