...after having had a goli for quite a while now, I'd like to say some things about it. And player controlled capships in general.

IMO: there's no reason for dent, goli, and any future player controlled capships to be limited to just 1L port weapon for the pilot. These ships turn slow enough that having 1S 2L ports for the pilot would be balanced by these ships already incredibly slow turn rate. And if a goli/dent with 1s 2L could deshield another goli/dent just increase the shield capacity or regen rate so the DPS of 1S 2L can't crack other player controlled capships shields (certainly seems the devs want to have pc capships not able to crack other pc capships shields). Queen is the smallest 'bot' capship - queen shield would be appropriate for pc capships IMO, and it's currently impossible to break that shield with 1s 2L

Goli docking bay: needs to be larger. I see something like keeping the height, but extend the bottom of the docking bay toward the rear, effectively making for a larger hole (kind of trident style dock where it's top and bottom are at different spots along the length of the ship)

And capship docks... why on earth are there only 4 or 5 in the whole universe? (itan, sol, dau, odia, latos m7). IMO there should be a capship dock in every system, even if only at a single station in each system. Or at least a capship dock every other system.

So, in summary:
1s 2L ports for all player controlled capships
enlarge goli docking bay
more capship docks in the vo 'verse

I wouldnt mind more ports specific to capships.

but you cant raise sheilds, because then it becomes more difficult to deshield one from a bomber.

docking bay is...adequate, but maybe it could be enlarged. I think it allready was though.

More capship docks? devs are allready working on that I beleive.

The dock on the Goli is a bit small and hard to get into with an xc.

Cargo capacity needs to be separate from the docking bays or docking needs to be rejected if the cargo bay is short on space. The ability to trade 300 cus of storage for a docking port and visa versa would be a good feature to look at and cut down on the number of actual variants needed.

Transferring cargo between the Cappie and docked ships needs to be looked at. Launching , dropping the cargo then docking to run over it is a bit of an exercise and seems rather silly.

+1 to more large docking ports for the cappies. Absolute minimum is every other system. Adding an unaligned cappie parking garage in a few systems would also be a consideration. I think this is on the short list already.

Recent discussions involving comments from incarnate are that more ports for capships are planned. In fact, they appear to be a prerequisite for other changes incarnate intends to make regarding capships- particularly in reference to persistence iirc.

Other input from incarnate suggested that separating cargo and docking space is not intended, though he does seem to indicate a willingness to tweak capacity at some point.

I do agree that we need at least 2 large ports for the trident as well as trident specific large port addons.

but you cant raise sheilds, because then it becomes more difficult to deshield one from a bomber.

Well, if we had good bombers, that wouldn't be an issue...

I suspect the ports are set at one large because the capacity of the capship cells enable players to Deshield levis and Conies with ease

Not massively fussed with capships just having 1 large port, though it does seem ridiculous in many ways.

+1 to everything else - bigger dock on Goli, and an XC still regularly sticks and spins on launching from a dent, etc etc

-1

I believe player owned and pilotable caships were added in VO prematurely, probably out of necessity at some point in history.
None of them are ready to play any meaningful role in the game.
Until such time that all requirements are met that those ships can actually play a meaningful role as player pilotable ships I propose they be removed from the game.
Just leave them in players inventory until you can work out what you want them to be.

Cue public outcry of everyone using xc overstuffed capships to make money...

Yeah I know, you all like to stuff 6 xcs in your trident, move stuff and make money.
If you like it so much then tridents are exactly what you want them to be - big cargo barges and they do not need any upgrading.
If not, my 2c on this apply.

The ideal purpose of a capital ship should be everything that every other ship does but on a larger, more expensive scale. Combat, Mining, Trading, Piracy, Hauling, if VO's current roster of capital ships cannot achieve this, the developers should find a way for each of these ships to compete in these roles.

Starting with Capital Combat.

Actually, I think Inc is good with the over stuffing with XC's for the 1200 cu volume. He's already taken steps to reduce the capacity at least once that I am aware of. And there are a number of ways he could immediately restrict the capacity further. This isn't to imply he has no intention of further adjusting the the capacity. So my take on it is that for now, this is intended at least in the short term. I think this is balanced by the cumbersome nature of loading and offloading as well as that most stations do not have cap ship docks.

Now I don't disagree with the sentiment for separating docks and cargo space, but I consider that topic settled until I forget what inc said and bring it up again ;)

Yes, tridents are 'premature'. But they are also good for the game in driving traffic and competition. They provide something needed in the game imo, which is something for players to work towards. As long as the requirements aren't stupid, I fully intend to build a Goliath when they come out on my phone character- who as of now hasn't even bought a temporary one. We need more and diverse projects like this for players to work towards.

Edit: Just so you guys / gals have a reference if you aren't familiar with the previous discussion...

https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/33129?page=2#389184

Inc is not cool with over-stuffing. I mentioned it in a discussion with him some time ago, and he called it something along the lines of "stupid tardis-boxing".

Yes, he says he thinks it's silly in the thread I referenced. It is the capacity overstuffing provides that he seems ok with for the time being. Which is in the range that I think a trident should provide. I'm not a fan of overstuffing myself.

Just to look at it from a different perspective, I think it makes perfect (RP) sense that the main way to transport cargo in a capship is by stuffing it with XC's: see them as a sort of container ships, with XC's being containers with an outboard motor attached so they can dock/undock themselves.

Especially for larger capships the docking bay infrastructure would be extremely expensive, and I can imagine that stations are actually not too happy to have a shielded battle station within their docks. So, each nation needs some capital docks to service capships, but commercial stations would probably be perfectly happy with capship owners parking outside and using their containers/barges to transfer goods.

(of course, the tardis thing is still weird, but that seems a matter of tweaking numbers...)

This could easily be managed by separating cargo and docking space. Let 2 docking bays accommodate 300 cu each for behemoths and the other two reduce to the size of a ragnerok or smaller. I suggested something along these lines years ago, but alas, not in the cards per incarnate.

When I say easily, I mean theoretically. Actual coding might be quite involved.

Edit: In my opinion this would also mandate finally being able to transfer cargo between trident cargo and onboard ship cargo similar to how we do in stations- or better.

"And if a goli/dent with 1s 2L could deshield another goli/dent just increase the shield capacity or regen rate so the DPS of 1S 2L can't crack other player controlled capships shields"

Currently one mp on a capship is enough to deshield a goli. Two mps will currently deshield a trident.

"queen shield would be appropriate for pc capships IMO, and it's currently impossible to break that shield with 1s 2L "

This is completely incorrect.

Faille wrote:
Inc is not cool with over-stuffing. I mentioned it in a discussion with him some time ago, and he called it something along the lines of "stupid tardis-boxing".

This is what he said about it in January:
Guys, if I had wanted to fix the XC over-stuffing thing, I could have gotten rid of it long ago. I haven't fixed it, precisely because some of the other factors needed to "correctly" balance the cargo capacity, in a meaningful way, weren't ready yet; and it wasn't really doing any harm (silly as it is).