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Claiming Sectors
"should my character suffer a death even though there was no way he could have known the station was going to be destroyed and couldn't have done anything to stop it?"
Yep! Should've docked in a more secure station! ;) Actually, I was thinking of having them returned to whatever station they have set as their home (with a popup message telling them), or their nation's capital if they were homed there. Also, it'd be awesome if an air raid siren or something went off when the station was attacked, notifying the people in it so they could undock and defend it (or run away)...
Yep! Should've docked in a more secure station! ;) Actually, I was thinking of having them returned to whatever station they have set as their home (with a popup message telling them), or their nation's capital if they were homed there. Also, it'd be awesome if an air raid siren or something went off when the station was attacked, notifying the people in it so they could undock and defend it (or run away)...
True, but logging onto other nations is no more exploitable than any of the myriad of other team-switching exploits. In fact, it's far less damaging than, say logging onto another nation and mining the flag when they plan to cap.
As regards the arbitrary nature of capturing stations, I invite you to think about it this way: Capturing stations reduces traffic. Less traffic=Less profit=Bad news for the local economy. Capturing a station is essentially an invasion. They accept your presence because you have shown force in their sector, and they can't do much against you. If you up and leave, they're gonna get frisky and reclaim their profits.
As regards the arbitrary nature of capturing stations, I invite you to think about it this way: Capturing stations reduces traffic. Less traffic=Less profit=Bad news for the local economy. Capturing a station is essentially an invasion. They accept your presence because you have shown force in their sector, and they can't do much against you. If you up and leave, they're gonna get frisky and reclaim their profits.
well destroying stations would be a great thing to see, but in the long run, it would create too many different factors and problems, that it's not worth the effort in trying that option.
Taking my second option and phaserlights first suggestion, Each station would have 3 control units. 3 players from the same team would have to simultaniously have their ship within a 10m radius of the control units. At the same time turrest will be guarding each control unit not to mention human players will also be allowed to guard it. The turrets will be the best AI in the universe (considering the use of turrets) which will make it very hard and will require some skill to get to the control unit. Once all 3 have been breeched, the sector, assuming all stations (if more than one) in the sector have been controlled by that team, will be controlled by the team.
The people inside the station that has been controlled will experience nothing except the change in prices for cargo, ships and repairing, etc. The station menu will read "Sector # Station - Under (Team)'s Control. This will tell the pilot that the outside enviroment is hostile.
To become even more advanced. Before they leave the station if they don't want to be fired upon, they can press exit, then a pop up will appear and it will ask "Are you hostile or not?" and a yes or no option. If the pilot chooses yes, their weapons will be online and they will be vulnerable to outside attack. If they say no, their weapons will be disabled and a sheild will be put upon them. Those will wear off either after 10 minutes or if they leave the sector.
Well i think i'm done for now
Note: These would just be for sectors that have stations, other sectors that have no stations in them will be permanent neutral sectors.
Ctishman: Whether or not a sector is controlled, there is always the possibility of a hostile player in it. Maybe if the player isn't looking to control the station, the control units could be far enough away from the docks so the guarding turrets don't harm the incoming players.
Taking my second option and phaserlights first suggestion, Each station would have 3 control units. 3 players from the same team would have to simultaniously have their ship within a 10m radius of the control units. At the same time turrest will be guarding each control unit not to mention human players will also be allowed to guard it. The turrets will be the best AI in the universe (considering the use of turrets) which will make it very hard and will require some skill to get to the control unit. Once all 3 have been breeched, the sector, assuming all stations (if more than one) in the sector have been controlled by that team, will be controlled by the team.
The people inside the station that has been controlled will experience nothing except the change in prices for cargo, ships and repairing, etc. The station menu will read "Sector # Station - Under (Team)'s Control. This will tell the pilot that the outside enviroment is hostile.
To become even more advanced. Before they leave the station if they don't want to be fired upon, they can press exit, then a pop up will appear and it will ask "Are you hostile or not?" and a yes or no option. If the pilot chooses yes, their weapons will be online and they will be vulnerable to outside attack. If they say no, their weapons will be disabled and a sheild will be put upon them. Those will wear off either after 10 minutes or if they leave the sector.
Well i think i'm done for now
Note: These would just be for sectors that have stations, other sectors that have no stations in them will be permanent neutral sectors.
Ctishman: Whether or not a sector is controlled, there is always the possibility of a hostile player in it. Maybe if the player isn't looking to control the station, the control units could be far enough away from the docks so the guarding turrets don't harm the incoming players.
Well today the blue team was having fun taking over the universe by positioning people in each sector and acting like it was theirs. Well this got me thinking, there should be a system to signify what sector is under what teams control. If you look at the game PlanetSide, which has 10 different Islands and whoever controls the most bases on the Island gains control over it. Well we have 2 options that I know of right now to do something like this.
Note: On the map in the lower middle of the screen, the sector would be in the color of the dominant team at that moment.
Options:
1) Have Larger Sectors with more than one station. Each station would have a control unit in which a certain type of a player would have to gain access to and control. It would be guarded by turrets from the team that controls it at that time. If no one controls it, then they will be neutral turrets until someone does. All the pilot has to do is run into the control unit (it will probably look just like the current flags) and stop on it, this will gain the control of the station, and if that team controls the others, the sector will become theirs. This is a big option with a lot of work to be done i would assume. Plus this is just a fairly rough draft of my idea, many other factors would be put into it.
2) This is a much simpler option which probably would not take too long to accomplish. Each sector would a program, e.g. "SectorBot". You would give money to the bot, and depending on what team you are from it will deposit it into that nations account. The more money from that team that goes into that sectors "SectorBot" the higher it will go. Now there will be a limit, and once that team reaches the limit, the sector becomes theirs, until another team goes up to the next limit. The controling team can not put anymore money into it until it is again controlled by another nation. This would prevent the same nation from controlling the sector for too long.
Those are the 2 ideas, if they are hard to understand, i'm not surprised, but you should get the gist of em. Now the advantage of having controlled sectors would be cheaper cargo, ships and etc for that sector. This way there is an incentive to actually control the sectors.
Now I do have other ideas but they aren't completely thought out yet, so I'll keep putting them together. Most of them are the same as these with better things to it.
Anyway feel free to comment or add to this.
Note: On the map in the lower middle of the screen, the sector would be in the color of the dominant team at that moment.
Options:
1) Have Larger Sectors with more than one station. Each station would have a control unit in which a certain type of a player would have to gain access to and control. It would be guarded by turrets from the team that controls it at that time. If no one controls it, then they will be neutral turrets until someone does. All the pilot has to do is run into the control unit (it will probably look just like the current flags) and stop on it, this will gain the control of the station, and if that team controls the others, the sector will become theirs. This is a big option with a lot of work to be done i would assume. Plus this is just a fairly rough draft of my idea, many other factors would be put into it.
2) This is a much simpler option which probably would not take too long to accomplish. Each sector would a program, e.g. "SectorBot". You would give money to the bot, and depending on what team you are from it will deposit it into that nations account. The more money from that team that goes into that sectors "SectorBot" the higher it will go. Now there will be a limit, and once that team reaches the limit, the sector becomes theirs, until another team goes up to the next limit. The controling team can not put anymore money into it until it is again controlled by another nation. This would prevent the same nation from controlling the sector for too long.
Those are the 2 ideas, if they are hard to understand, i'm not surprised, but you should get the gist of em. Now the advantage of having controlled sectors would be cheaper cargo, ships and etc for that sector. This way there is an incentive to actually control the sectors.
Now I do have other ideas but they aren't completely thought out yet, so I'll keep putting them together. Most of them are the same as these with better things to it.
Anyway feel free to comment or add to this.
Just give stations an insanely high number of HP (100 million or something), give them repair bots (repair maybe 1000 HP per minute), and make an insanely expensive ship that can permanantly deploy into a station (with upgradable turrets, etc.). Of course, the numbers would have to be tweaked, but it would make things a lot more realistic...
Cool sounding as they are, there are a *lot* of problems with destructable stations in a persistent universe, discussed at length in several different threads.
I don't think the same problems would apply to a station that you can "take over" and this would be a lot of fun, but it should be a lot more difficult to gain control of the station than just running over the "control unit" imo. Perhaps there could be five different control units around the station that would have to be activated simultaneously (ala Ender's Game), and each would only activate after a ship of a certain nation had been sitting on it for a full minute.
Also, what happens to players of other nations docked at this station when it gets taken over? What happens if the universe gets completely taken over by a particular nation that blocks other ships from docking and trading?
I don't think the same problems would apply to a station that you can "take over" and this would be a lot of fun, but it should be a lot more difficult to gain control of the station than just running over the "control unit" imo. Perhaps there could be five different control units around the station that would have to be activated simultaneously (ala Ender's Game), and each would only activate after a ship of a certain nation had been sitting on it for a full minute.
Also, what happens to players of other nations docked at this station when it gets taken over? What happens if the universe gets completely taken over by a particular nation that blocks other ships from docking and trading?
Phaserlight, you mean that there would eventually be no stations? I sort of imagined the repair bots fixing that. Also, in the final game, there won't be anywhere near as high a sector to station ratio. It'll probably be more like one out of every ten sectors has a station, mainly in strategic locations. Also, the stations would have defense forces, so a sustained attack of that length would require a significant fleet.
Gaining Control:
To gain control of a station, the nation wishing to control must have more than ten people online, and bring at least 75% of their online population into the sector and have it in space. When this condition is met, the station daemon say_sector messages that they will accept your nation's protection for the time being.
Maintaining Control:
Once control of a station has been gained, the controlling nation must maintain a military presence in the sector to maintain control. By this I mean that at least five players must remain in space in the sector. Not docked, but in space, flying around.
Losing Control:
Should the number of nation-players online fall below 10, or the number of nation-players in the sector fall below 5 at any time, the sector will revert to neutrality, and must be re-captured.
Stealing Control:
To steal control of a sector, a challenging nation must again have more than 10 people on, and bring 75% of those into the sector to be stolen. Being as both forces are in space fighting, conflicts of exactly-matched forces will solve themselves sooner or later in battle. Until that point, sector control remains with the original nation.
To gain control of a station, the nation wishing to control must have more than ten people online, and bring at least 75% of their online population into the sector and have it in space. When this condition is met, the station daemon say_sector messages that they will accept your nation's protection for the time being.
Maintaining Control:
Once control of a station has been gained, the controlling nation must maintain a military presence in the sector to maintain control. By this I mean that at least five players must remain in space in the sector. Not docked, but in space, flying around.
Losing Control:
Should the number of nation-players online fall below 10, or the number of nation-players in the sector fall below 5 at any time, the sector will revert to neutrality, and must be re-captured.
Stealing Control:
To steal control of a sector, a challenging nation must again have more than 10 people on, and bring 75% of those into the sector to be stolen. Being as both forces are in space fighting, conflicts of exactly-matched forces will solve themselves sooner or later in battle. Until that point, sector control remains with the original nation.
to ctishman, yea its easy for blue to have more than 10 people on at a time but more difficult for us. your idea only focuses on your p.o.v. for an example, its not very often that more than 10 golds are on at the same time and even if there were over 10, 75% of them probably wouldnt be in the same sector.
Well, I'm Serco through and through, and I know what you mean about numbers. However, the system I propose would require a constant garrison to maintain, thus providing a diversion for the huge amounts of players the Itani have. If they wanted to get a capping fleet together, it would mean balancing tactically between maintaining conquered systems and other activities. The short attention span of the average player would mandate short terms for occupations in systems further away from the homeworld.
Why capture a system, you ask?
Repairs won't be free forever, but they could be much cheaper on a captured station. Eventually dying will have an even greater cost (rescue operations and medical attention), and these costs could be reduced for an occupied system.
Why capture a system, you ask?
Repairs won't be free forever, but they could be much cheaper on a captured station. Eventually dying will have an even greater cost (rescue operations and medical attention), and these costs could be reduced for an occupied system.
ctishman, I don't think that 75% rule would work too well. 1) It could easily be hijacked by having players of other nations log on to the controlling nation, and *not* entering the captured sector. 2) IMHO it seems kind of arbitrary that you win the *stations* by just flying around in the sector.
Pyro: "Phaserlight, you mean that there would eventually be no stations? I sort of imagined the repair bots fixing that."
Not at all, this is merely a problem of balance, and could be fixed. There are far more perplexing problems that pop up for which there don't seem to be any non-convoluted workarounds. For example, what happens if I dock at a station, log off, and the next time I log in (however unlikely) I find the station has been destroyed? Should my character suffer a death even though there was no way he could have known the station was going to be destroyed and couldn't have done anything to stop it? If not, does he and his inventory get transported to the nearest friendly station? Does he find himself floating in space in his ship? This would be very confusing/frustrating, and there is no logical explanation for it.
These problems are only the tip of the iceberg. UncleDave had a very good thread on player-owned stations. A slightly different topic, but there was some good discussion on the ramifications of destructable stations. Celebrim as usual had some very well thought out posts:
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=1912&page=17
I agree destructable stations would be cool, but they would have to be *very* carefully implemented to avoid a host of problems in a persistent MMORP universe.
Pyro: "Phaserlight, you mean that there would eventually be no stations? I sort of imagined the repair bots fixing that."
Not at all, this is merely a problem of balance, and could be fixed. There are far more perplexing problems that pop up for which there don't seem to be any non-convoluted workarounds. For example, what happens if I dock at a station, log off, and the next time I log in (however unlikely) I find the station has been destroyed? Should my character suffer a death even though there was no way he could have known the station was going to be destroyed and couldn't have done anything to stop it? If not, does he and his inventory get transported to the nearest friendly station? Does he find himself floating in space in his ship? This would be very confusing/frustrating, and there is no logical explanation for it.
These problems are only the tip of the iceberg. UncleDave had a very good thread on player-owned stations. A slightly different topic, but there was some good discussion on the ramifications of destructable stations. Celebrim as usual had some very well thought out posts:
http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com/?action=msgboard&thread=1912&page=17
I agree destructable stations would be cool, but they would have to be *very* carefully implemented to avoid a host of problems in a persistent MMORP universe.
I couldnt read all of this cause school teachers and all, but i remember someone telling me that the stations will have their own defense system and be deystroyable by the end of this game. i dunno if it was true but i decided to see if people were into starting up a station take over. i had various players pay 10c for info on what to do, and it was refundable at any time. (which reminds me that i owe quite a load of people (itani in general) about 10c each...) the basic idea in the beginning was to protect the s4 station, then move to an outward sector and take over that station. the basic hope was to control the station and keep it running for traders of your nation while attacking and defending the station from hostile nations.
after i joined gold i kinda gave up on it. not to mention that i figured it would be a long time till something lke that is introduced.
-io
nice idea Jm
after i joined gold i kinda gave up on it. not to mention that i figured it would be a long time till something lke that is introduced.
-io
nice idea Jm
There should definatly be some form of sector control when the game gets larger - something you can invest money into to defend, and in turn would beinifit you in some way... Other wise trading to earn money is only good to a certain point, at some point you'll have enough money and it just won't matter...
Perhaps have permanant stations in the core sectors that can't be taken. Also core sectors can't be mined. Then have outter sectors where players can build their own stations by buying a construction bot, and supplying needed materials. Then stations can have levels, lower levels have no station defense and only produce cheaper products while higher stations have defenses that can target ememies or simply protect from against attack. These would also produce more expensive products - which the constucting player can take for free.
These outter sectors could be mined for defense and mines last longer - days or weeks instead of minutes. Then you'd have to add sector scanners to scan the sectors before you enter and mine disruption missles.
Could also add "cleaning" bots that would travel major trade routes and remove mines so people could still travel major space lanes freely.
Yet another thing that could be done is that players ships do not disapear when they log off - they remain at the station they were in or float in space where they logged off. If they chose to stay in space they are easy prey, if they stay in a station they are destroyed only if the station is destroyed - so creating a station creates a safe haven away from the home sector. If a player is destroyed they are brought back to the home sector and restarted next time they log on. Only players with below a certain exp level can stay at the home or safe sector stations making it nessasary for advanced players to make stations. Then there could be cloaking devices made for when people log off so they aren't as easy prey in open sectors.
Keep in mind that these are ideas for when there are hundreds of sectors - they don't work on the current limited universe.
Perhaps have permanant stations in the core sectors that can't be taken. Also core sectors can't be mined. Then have outter sectors where players can build their own stations by buying a construction bot, and supplying needed materials. Then stations can have levels, lower levels have no station defense and only produce cheaper products while higher stations have defenses that can target ememies or simply protect from against attack. These would also produce more expensive products - which the constucting player can take for free.
These outter sectors could be mined for defense and mines last longer - days or weeks instead of minutes. Then you'd have to add sector scanners to scan the sectors before you enter and mine disruption missles.
Could also add "cleaning" bots that would travel major trade routes and remove mines so people could still travel major space lanes freely.
Yet another thing that could be done is that players ships do not disapear when they log off - they remain at the station they were in or float in space where they logged off. If they chose to stay in space they are easy prey, if they stay in a station they are destroyed only if the station is destroyed - so creating a station creates a safe haven away from the home sector. If a player is destroyed they are brought back to the home sector and restarted next time they log on. Only players with below a certain exp level can stay at the home or safe sector stations making it nessasary for advanced players to make stations. Then there could be cloaking devices made for when people log off so they aren't as easy prey in open sectors.
Keep in mind that these are ideas for when there are hundreds of sectors - they don't work on the current limited universe.
It's too bad the archives are gone. We've had some good discussions of this very thing, but they were nearly a year ago.
Yep. &^%#$ing C.H.U.D.s...
/me laughs at ctishman... weren't you one of them?
CHUDS! We eat threads, wooooo!