If somebody hits the station with a weapon (regardless of whether they're in an NFZ), they should receive a 15-minute Temp-KOS that does not expire with death. After all, the purpose of the NFZ is to protect the station from collateral damage by discouraging nearby combat, but right now we're not penalized for actually hitting the station, only each other. That's silly. Not only should we be penalized for hitting the station, but the penalty for doing so should be worse than the one for hitting each other, since we've now actually done the thing they're worried about.

This should ignore damage caused by bumping and ship explosions, although I have no problem with it counting ship explosion damage if the ship exploded due to the pilot's choices (/explode, crashing, or their own splash damage).

Vo has never been very good about keeping the different damage causes separate...

As long as its a temp with no effect on perm standing and its limited to weapons fire ..
+1

+1

Heh

The purpose of the NFZ is not to protect the station itself.

-1 unless stations can be actually damaged and/or destroyed.

The gameplay purpose is something to do with an irrational concern regarding shooting people near the station where they could just dock anyway to magically become safe, but the RP reason is that the stations want to discourage fighting nearby to avoid taking damage. The fact that we cannot actually damage them (yet!) is irrelevant. My suggestion enhances the mechanic's ability to serve both ends -- it boosts immersion and further discourages fighting near the station, potentially hitting attackers (like me!) with a penalty that they can't just /explode to clear. It would certainly make me think twice about picking a fight with somebody near a station I'm planning to use over the next fifteen minutes, whereas the existing Temp-KOS is something I usually just ignore entirely unless I'm actively trying to dock with a cargo ship (and sometimes even then).

And don't discount that "yet!" either -- Inc has said many times that he wants to eventually add station-building, and station-building implies station-destruction. So this would also be one of the many, many things that will eventually need to be added anyway in order to support that. I've already said how I think it improves things, and I don't see how it would hurt anything, so I don't see any reason it should be required to wait until stations are actually able to be damaged.

+1

While I usually oppose changes for the "safer", this just makes sense.

+1

-1 I often shoot the stations when I'm bored.

+1

As long as a ship's explosion doesn't trigger the kos.

-1 stations are indestructible and this could overall ruin everybody's experience playing vo. Nfz is to protect players..and when noobs don't know the rules they accidentally or for fun shoot the station and die they get insta-ported to. odia m-14 where they will be griefed until they leave vo. Or some sss farmer like me on my mobile device has his finger slip onto the blue button and then I lose my sss, my tung mar, ihdpcs or lord knows what else.

Hellcat, this suggestion would ensure shooting at the station would alleviate any boredom pretty certainly.

Tripod, NFZ is there to protect the STATION, not players. It even says so in the tutorials. Shooting things "for fun" SHOULD have consequences. Pretty sure if you shot up someone's shop/home/garage IRL the owner would be displeased with you. Learn to control you weapons and ship.

NFZ is there to protect the STATION, not players. It even says so in the tutorials.

Doesn't matter what it says in the tutorials. This suggestion leans too heavily on a RP explanation in lieu of any actual significant gameplay consideration.

The NFZ exists to protect players, particularily new players and those who want some degree of "safe harbor" from danger. It does not exist (gameplay-wise) to "protect the station". All stations already have the ultimate protection: invinciblity. Stuff incarnate has "planned" is irrelevant because "soon(TM)". Changes in game should make sense for the gameplay that exist NOW if those changes have significant ramifications on the gameplay of current users. Further, no where else in this game do you get penalized for shooting things that take no damage. In every penalty situation there is something that stands to be gained, be it potential kills or cargo. In the case of stations getting hit by weapons there is no opportunity for gain because of their invincibility.

Rin paints this suggestion as an improvement, particularly for those wanting safety in NFZs. But how much safer will people be? I truly don't think 15 unclearable minutes of no docking and SF at your tail are really going to make any significant difference in your tactics overall if hunting people in the NFZ is part of your game, especially for experienced aggressors. Providing the potential for increased general safety on the rare occasion experienced aggressors want to be able to dock or have some degree of safety themselves is drops in the bucket compared to the amount of newbs who will accidentally trigger their own destruction, get rehomed far away, and get their standing tanked, and then potentially quit the game because of the setback/confusion. This would open up new avenues of griefing, such as being able to draw homing missiles into stations and luring newbs to shoot in the direction of the station. We can already do this now with NPCs but they are much smaller, mobile, and impermanent targets compared to stations.

I don't believe this will force Rin (or others) to alter their tactics in any significant way *that adds to other's safety*. Experienced aggressors will carry on as usual aside from the rare situations they themselves need immediate and safe access to NFZ space. Newbs, on the other hand, will be less likely to adapt to this change and more likely to feel bigger setbacks earlier in the game, causing confusion and dissatisfaction with the experience overall. I don't see that as a worthwhile outcome. [paragraph reworded for clarity]

But will noobs pay attention to that rule? I think a fine of like 2,500 creds should be ok, longer you wait to pay it, it gets bigger and standing won't increase till you pay it. +1 to the penalty but no kos.

"Doesn't matter what it says in the tutorials."

So WRONG! It SPECIFICALY says they exist to protect stations. If it "Doesn't matter what it says in the tutorials", then why have them? Ignoring the tutes is a noob attitude, Green, and you know it. What is irrelevant is whether the stations can be damaged or not. The NFZ is MEANT to protect the station. Hitting the station SHOULD be worse than hitting a Station Guard.

I may have been unclear. I don't mean to imply that all tutorial info doesn't matter. I only meant to point out that just because the tutorial says the NFZ is there to protect the station, it doesn't change the fact that stations don't need protection because they are invicible. Any reasonable person understands the primary (/only) purpose of the NFZ is to offer some limited protection (via risk to aggressors) to those with favorable standing as they conduct their business in close proximity to the station. Taking it to LITERALLY mean the station itself is simply going too far.

Perhaps by the word "station" in the tutorial, they meant "access into, out of, and around the station"? I don't know I haven't read a tutorial in ages.

I'm unconcerned about newbies shooting stations. Why? Because it is obvious that you shouldn't shoot at friendly stations, just like it's obvious that you shouldn't shoot at friendly ships. You especially shouldn't do so within a no-fire-zone that the game helpfully informs you about with big red letters any time you enter it or fire your weapons within it. The tutorial would also be updated to inform the newbie that shooting friendly stations carries a penalty.

I'm not worried about the missile issue either, since the penalty I proposed is temporary. If people don't want to risk a 15 minute Temp-KOS, they should simply not fire guided weapons in the vicinity of stations. If they're a little dumb and don't realize that at first, then they'll learn. It's not the end of the world to get a Temp-KOS.

Perhaps some of those people are also so psychologically fragile that they'd quit the game over it, but if so, it's very likely that they'd have gone on to make some other stupid mistake and quit over that instead. This is obviously not a game for fragile people; it is named Vendetta and rated T for Teen. We don't need to treat people like they're porcelain idiots.

It's not the end of the world to get a Temp-KOS.

It is if you are newb in nation space. You will die and be transported far away into greyspace, where you risk getting your ass shot repeatedly while you limp back to where you came from. I understand your contempt for people who don't read the rules, but I can't understand how you think giving a penalty for shooting an invicible station justifies adding that much extra risk for new players, whether they are stupid or not. Non-stupid people make simple mistakes all the time. You might think it's a great opportunity to learn, but I obviously would disagree.

We don't need to treat people like they're porcelain idiots.

Managing the complexity of the new player experience is an important concern, whether or not you think it should be. Like it or not, many (most?) players don't read the entire tutorial, nor do they have photographic memories of every word and concept as they set out into the universe. Will they have setbacks and make mistakes? Of course. Do we need to add more opportunity for them to do so, for the mild benefits you state? I don't think so.

At most give people a warning for shooting the station, just like you get when you fire weapons in the NFZ; in either case zero harm occurs. Anything more at this point is excessive.

+1 greenwall, noobs don't know any better rin..why should they get penalized for something so insignificant.

I think you are missing my point, Green. The stations invulnerability is irrelevant, and certainly does not mean the NFZ is "clearly" for the protection of nearby ships. The game says they are for the protection of the station. Whether the station needs that protection remains irrelevant. The stations don't need the GTS ads either, especially given most pilots can't read GTS, and NPCs get their programing direct from the source. Like the stations invulnerability, that's irrelevant.

The NFZ is there because it should be there. Because space stations in the VO universe would have NFZs. I'd be willing to bet, if damage to stations could be efficiently implemented, GS would have done it already. A penalty of some kind for damage to a station (even if it can't actually take damage) is fitting.

Perhaps, to alleviate the "careless newb gets KoS-ported to Odia" issue, rather than a standing hit, a "fine" consummate to the damage that was delivered. Accidentally blatt off a few blasts of your freegun? Couple hundred credit fine. Nuke it with an Av? Million credit (or more) fine. No existing ingame "fine" mechanics? Make it a bounty...

I totally see the merit in this idea and all. It probably makes sense.

But -1 since it just isn't fun. We're not gonna lose any players because they quit over the station not penalizing it when you hit it.

Once the day comes where stations can be destroyed we can talk about that again.