I think the protected newbie sectors should be deeper into nation home territory than the flag. That way we can cap like we used to, but newbies will be protected.

Asp

The Defbots are there for 3 reasons.
1.) Protect the newbies.
2.) Prevent cheap flag capping by swarming a nation with only one or two defenders.
3.) Test the AI.

1.)They've succeeded at objective one.
2.)They've failed miserably at objective two since it is now impossible to cap unless there are no defenders on.
3.) Objective 3 is going strong.

My solution to objective 2:
A.) Put the newbie sector behind the flag sector as Kuvagh said. Guard this newbie sector with a gauntlet of frig turrets just outside the wormhole. Or better yet, put a frig in there that mercilessly rapes non-nation members. No non-nation member should ever get more than a glimpse of this sector before being blown to bits. (Of course, give 'em a warning before they open the wormhole.)
B.) Set it up so that there are 6 defbots in the flag sector. For every undocked player of that nation with a score above 10k within a 3 sector radius (the n00b sector doesn't count,) subtract one defbot.

Point B is so complicated in order to prevent abuse. By putting up a score limit, we prevent the cappers from sending in people to just sit there and eliminate the bots. The n00b sector is also exempted so that these people can't create a botting character in anticipation of a cap. And there doesn't need to be a station in the flag sector, so that isn't an issue.

Well, we need a farthar reaching, harder hitting gun for that. But still, we need to protect the newbies, not the flag. The expert players of that nation protect the flag. The defbots are there to protect the newbies. I'm thinking maybe some large turrets on either side of the wormhole exit. But then agian, such an uberweapon would take away all the fun.

I loved pre-defbot vendetta.
The added responsibility of the newbs to the vets just made it so much more fun

/me agrees w/ojok2! Like I said, it was like shepherd and sheep, it gaves vets a lot more responsibility. You would sometimes hear things like "oh s***, Icarus is in s6 raping n00bs, get him!" Most of the time, however, there would be at least one gold vet patrolling s6 while botting.

Hmm, but those experienced players arn't always in the home sectors are they? I say use that same score requirement, but only take away the defbots when those players are in the home sectors.

or have it so the farther away the players were from the homesector, the more defbots that would be spawned, and I think the score should be 30k

Ou! Ou! How about this!
Defbots are gone, but instead you have a pair of super-armored turrets either side of the flag to shoot at invaders. Oh, and some more by the station! They don't move of-course, but are rather hard to kill.
Great concept, eh?

I like the turret idea. We could have turrets and a force field generator :D

Or maybe just having an armed cap ship in each home sector that drops the flag when it dies like Magus said. o.0

"You'ld never know when you would be botting and then a greifer would come out of nowhere and kill you."

Heh, Icarus did this do me after I had been playing for about half an hour. I heard this noise ....fffFFFFF and then *bam* I was dead. When there were no defbots it was up to the veteran players to protect the noobs. I actually thought it was kinda fun, (it was kinda like playing sheep, wolf, and shepherd) but I obviously can't speak for everyone.

There are two possible solutions:

1) Just have the defbots in the "outer" sector of each nation (s4, s6, s12), but not the home sector.

2) Magus proposed an idea which I think is a very good one: the number of defbots spawned is inversely proportional to the number of experienced players of that nation online. E.g. if there are five players of a particular nation with a score of over 10,000 online, then there would be no defbots spawned. Four players over 10k, one defbot, three players, two defbots and so on.

Of course the "force field" idea could be implemented without taking out the defbots, but the defbots would have to be toned down to balance the added challenge.

Picture this...

The defbots are gone, but the flag is protected by a force field.

Each nation's home sector station would be designed so that there is an enclosed space you can fly into. The flag is located inside this space, but the only way in is guarded by a force field. In order to gain access to the flag, a capping team must knock out the force field generator located somewhere on the station. The generator would be fairly tough, and would take about 10-20 direct avalon hits before being knocked out. Once the generator is out, the force field will remain down for about a minute. During this time, the fighters can fly through the station Return of the Jedi-style and nick the flag. If the force field came back up while the fighters were still inside they would be trapped and fried by the station's defense systems. There would be a small entry dock for friendly fighters in case they got trapped inside as well.

I know this would be a lot to implement, but I think it would be fun as heck. You would have to organize capping fleets into bombers to take out the generator and maneuverable fighters to fly in and grab the flag. It would also place more emphasis on player vs. player combat since the defbots would be gone, but capping would still be a challenge because you would have to first take down the generator while dodging the station's defenses and other defending players.

I thought ctf was going away eventually. Second I don't like the idea of using 20 avalons for 1 min of shield down time. I mean that would back ctf impossible unless you had 10 people with 2 hours to waste. If there was defenders it would be impossible all together

durgia is rite thats just too much avalons but maybe have hit points for the generator, maybe about 20000 and have 2 or three generators and the generators can regenerate and heal itself so that means their will be needed at least a minimum of three players to take the generators out and it will take at least 1min. 20sec. to comeback for the generators.

It would basically be like taking down a frigate. I like the idea, it sounds really fun. But why not just put a Frigate in the home sector and have it drop a flag when you blow it up? Alas, it will never happen. CTF is going away soon and the defbots are only being used as a way to test vulnerabilities in the AI.

2 rags can carry 16 avalons between them, and I was thinking the generator would be closer to the 10 avalon end than the 20 avalon end.

I seriously doubt it would take 10 people or 2 hours. A team of four or five could do it in minutes, and without the defbots it would be much easier than it is now.

But fine, the hp of the generator could be tweaked obviously. Say 5 or 8 avalon hits for 1 min of shield down. I also like Trigger's idea. As far as CTF going away, I know it's not going to be in the final version, but do we really know when the devs plan to take it out? Right now it's one of the fun things you can do in the test besides trading, fighting and racing.

"but do we really know when the devs plan to take it out?"

-Once a solid mission and guild system is in place. Which is what they are going to start working on after the dynamic economy is tweaked.

No, whatever you do, do not ask for the defbots to be gone. The bots are there to protect the newbies from the greifers. If you take the bots out, might as well say byebye to any newcomers.

The newbies arn't going to be able to seek shelter in a force feild very well because they don't quite understand the game quite yet.

In fact the defbots are the only reason I came back. Before, it was a hazerd to be a newbie even in your home sector. You'ld never know when you would be botting and then a greifer would come out of nowhere and kill you.