Forums » Suggestions
Giving suns some "hate" would be more beneficial for the game as a whole. If suns are slightly nerfed (keeping their original damage and ammo count, but bringing speed and splash range down to be equal to ices/stars), people would be more inclined to fly a variety of ships instead of relying so fucking much on the armor of valks and proms.
Please do NOT increase the safety lockout for Star-flares! Sure, I blow myself up with them a lot, but they are the only flares you can actually rocket ram with since the safety prox was introduced.
The mass of them is perfect, the ammo is perfect, the speed is perfect (just so you know, rockets fire with + the speed of the ship, so if you want them to move 10m/s faster, MOVE 10m/s faster!!!!)
If you change my beloved stars I will cry. Sure, other people may not use them as much as Sun-flares, but that does NOT mean nobody uses them. Other people just do not appreciate their beauty.
Ice flares are kind of cute too, it's funny to challenge someone to a bus duel and then ice-flare them to death. In the right hands they can actually be quite deadly.
Fix the instant logout thing before you tweak flares. Suggest new rockets, but do not change my beloved Stars!
The mass of them is perfect, the ammo is perfect, the speed is perfect (just so you know, rockets fire with + the speed of the ship, so if you want them to move 10m/s faster, MOVE 10m/s faster!!!!)
If you change my beloved stars I will cry. Sure, other people may not use them as much as Sun-flares, but that does NOT mean nobody uses them. Other people just do not appreciate their beauty.
Ice flares are kind of cute too, it's funny to challenge someone to a bus duel and then ice-flare them to death. In the right hands they can actually be quite deadly.
Fix the instant logout thing before you tweak flares. Suggest new rockets, but do not change my beloved Stars!
-1 to this whole thread. This kind of hand-wringing over minor balance tweaks is an utter waste of time considering where VO is (or rather, isn't).
Fix the instant logout thing before you tweak flares. Suggest new rockets, but do not change my beloved Stars!
"Fixing the instant logout thing" is like a week of development (EDIT: I thought you were talking about the target-logout thing). Changing the flares is 5 minutes of development.
But, yeah, I'm not overwhelmingly concerned about any of these issues either. Still, if there are small changes I can make quickly, that'll make people happier and improve the game, I'll try to do so. I'm not sure that this is one of them, though.
"Fixing the instant logout thing" is like a week of development (EDIT: I thought you were talking about the target-logout thing). Changing the flares is 5 minutes of development.
But, yeah, I'm not overwhelmingly concerned about any of these issues either. Still, if there are small changes I can make quickly, that'll make people happier and improve the game, I'll try to do so. I'm not sure that this is one of them, though.
Lecter, there is really no need to rub in everyone's faces what kind of whiny, pompous brat you are. Everyone knows already.
Yoda, you are a VO icon, I think you deserve a proper tribute like having rockets named after you. How about current stats starflares get renamed to 'yoda ramflares' and we still get some tweaks to star and ice?
Lecter, there is really no need to rub in everyone's faces what kind of whiny, pompous brat you are. Everyone knows already.
Joyless.. while I don't find Lecter's (common) response to be very useful, yours is even less so. You need to seriously stop addressing other people directly in Suggestions, and just speak to the ideas on the table.. or not post at all.
Joyless.. while I don't find Lecter's (common) response to be very useful, yours is even less so. You need to seriously stop addressing other people directly in Suggestions, and just speak to the ideas on the table.. or not post at all.
that'll make people happier and improve the game
The problem with these balance tweaks is that they're not this kind of thing. They will annoy, roughly speaking, about as many people as they please. I'm not sure whether it's good or bad that the level of annoyance and pleasing are both going to be pretty Goddamn low for this sort of thing: you've pleased some people, but not very much; it's annoying to others, but only a little. Hope no more than 5 minutes of total attention span was required for the entire process!
Any improvement to the game is pretty hard to gauge when the metric is "gee, how perfectly balanced (whatever the fuck that means) are our various weapon selections." Plus, relatively speaking, balance tweaks are a rounding error worth of improvement to the game compared to actually adding content.
So, as I said, screw this thread.
The problem with these balance tweaks is that they're not this kind of thing. They will annoy, roughly speaking, about as many people as they please. I'm not sure whether it's good or bad that the level of annoyance and pleasing are both going to be pretty Goddamn low for this sort of thing: you've pleased some people, but not very much; it's annoying to others, but only a little. Hope no more than 5 minutes of total attention span was required for the entire process!
Any improvement to the game is pretty hard to gauge when the metric is "gee, how perfectly balanced (whatever the fuck that means) are our various weapon selections." Plus, relatively speaking, balance tweaks are a rounding error worth of improvement to the game compared to actually adding content.
So, as I said, screw this thread.
Lecter, if I remember correctly, you exclusively use dual sunflares. I don't see you getting too much fussed about starflares or iceflares getting some minor tweaks.
This is really a very low priority suggestion and one very easy to implement if found valid.
Probably none of the VO vets will get annoyed or upset about this and, who knows, lower level newer players trying new weapons would find starflares and iceflares fun to play with instead of blowing themselves up with them because of their nasty backsplash and never giving them another try.
Is this really such a bad thing if, as Inc said, it takes 5 min of his time?
This is really a very low priority suggestion and one very easy to implement if found valid.
Probably none of the VO vets will get annoyed or upset about this and, who knows, lower level newer players trying new weapons would find starflares and iceflares fun to play with instead of blowing themselves up with them because of their nasty backsplash and never giving them another try.
Is this really such a bad thing if, as Inc said, it takes 5 min of his time?
Like most people post-Suns nerfing, I go back and forth between Suns and Stars. Though since I've largely gotten out of the valk and prom scene, flares are much less relevant to what little piloting I do. When I do get into B8 to fuck around, I'm generally more interested in rails these days...rails are great because you have a constant excuse for dying (which I was probably going to do anyway given the rust) and occasionally get to watch a very annoyed opponent vanish in a cloud of omfgwtfwasthatshit!?
Annnnnyway...if all you want to do is buff Stars/Ice, buff away (though as Yoda proves, "buffing" can be a bit tricky to define). But as this thread shows, invariably someone feels like nerfing some other shit is necessary because Balance. And it just gets annoying.
Annnnnyway...if all you want to do is buff Stars/Ice, buff away (though as Yoda proves, "buffing" can be a bit tricky to define). But as this thread shows, invariably someone feels like nerfing some other shit is necessary because Balance. And it just gets annoying.
Rails need fixing well before suns too, tweaks include removing the power requirements per shot.
Suns should get some competition in the form of combat modifying flares such as flares that drain power or flares that add weight temporarily to enemies hit and such.
Suns should get some competition in the form of combat modifying flares such as flares that drain power or flares that add weight temporarily to enemies hit and such.
This is a separate thread, but I'm not sure rails can ever really be fixed - to my mind, that would be making them into a longer range sniping weapon. They could be made more dangerous by upping ammo counts, upping damage, upping velocity, and/or lowering energy per shot, but the real problem with them is that accuracy over 1000m+ distances just doesn't seem to work with how VO handles projectiles and vectors.
/threadjack
/threadjack
Yes, I agree Lecter. The suns really do need their speed is fine, but I think the "LockoutDistance" of the suns need to be closer to stars.
If you want to use the more powerful weapons you gotta be more careful.
There is not as much taken away from using suns as there is from using any other rockets. This puts suns as the obvious favorites.
I think the license requirements are pretty arbitrary. I don't know that the suns are the defined top-tier small port rockets, as they have a completely different name. So comparing the suns vs stars vs ices is not the same as comparing the plasma mki to plasma mkiii.
Those are defined by their name as having different level tiers. This distinction does not exist among rockets.
The flares weapon set NEEDS to be balanced. Not an incredibly high priority as I think that Lecter has a point in saying new content is what EVERYONE wants. But yea, like Incarnate said, tweaking the flare stats until something reasonable is reached wouldn't even be something I would classify as real development time.
If you want to use the more powerful weapons you gotta be more careful.
There is not as much taken away from using suns as there is from using any other rockets. This puts suns as the obvious favorites.
I think the license requirements are pretty arbitrary. I don't know that the suns are the defined top-tier small port rockets, as they have a completely different name. So comparing the suns vs stars vs ices is not the same as comparing the plasma mki to plasma mkiii.
Those are defined by their name as having different level tiers. This distinction does not exist among rockets.
The flares weapon set NEEDS to be balanced. Not an incredibly high priority as I think that Lecter has a point in saying new content is what EVERYONE wants. But yea, like Incarnate said, tweaking the flare stats until something reasonable is reached wouldn't even be something I would classify as real development time.
[edit!]
"This kind of hand-wringing over minor balance tweaks is an utter waste of time considering where VO is (or rather, isn't)."
^
"This kind of hand-wringing over minor balance tweaks is an utter waste of time considering where VO is (or rather, isn't)."
^
tweaking the flare stats until something reasonable is reached...that happened TEN YEARS AGO.
The flares set is balanced, and has been since sometime in the latter half of 2005. Ten years later, that things feel like maybe they would be more fun for some people if they were different is no reason to think those changes would be net improvements, much less needed to balance an unbalanced weapon-set.
but I think the "LockoutDistance" of the suns need to be closer to stars
Be careful what you wish for; against evenly-matched armor classes, that would make the suns user more vulnerable. But if I'm flying a SCP, I'll take the extra damage for a better chance of scoring a hit on a cent that has gotten up close: I can afford the damage, the tin-can can't.
The flares set is balanced, and has been since sometime in the latter half of 2005. Ten years later, that things feel like maybe they would be more fun for some people if they were different is no reason to think those changes would be net improvements, much less needed to balance an unbalanced weapon-set.
but I think the "LockoutDistance" of the suns need to be closer to stars
Be careful what you wish for; against evenly-matched armor classes, that would make the suns user more vulnerable. But if I'm flying a SCP, I'll take the extra damage for a better chance of scoring a hit on a cent that has gotten up close: I can afford the damage, the tin-can can't.
It's rare, but I agree with a bojan-suggestion. But I'll have to get into detail with what I specifically agree on.
+1 to making the safety range 30m (same as flares)
However, I think simply buffing up the speed to the same isn't enough. We could actually fill a niche with those 2 launchers if we give them some special stat that only they have, thus making them a legitimate alternative to Sunflares, not only for newbs but even to veteran players. I propose the following:
Iceflares:
Buff the speed to 95 m/s
Reduce the delay to 0.8 s
Reason: Iceflares are very light and do little damage. Upping the speed to 10 m/s higher than sunflares make them a dangerous alternative to them, despite them not packing a punch as big as sunflares do. Reducing the delay a bit allows for quicker flare juggling options (new players can learn the ropes a bit easier then...)
Starflares:
Buff the speed to 90 m/s
Increase the damage to 1100
Increase the weight to 700kg
Reason: Starflares are not as light as Iceflares but hit harder. They should be put into a damage-alternative to the Sunflare that only flies a bit faster than Suns but still does reasonable damage.
The 100kg extra weight is supposed to be a tradeoff for the damage increase.
P.S: Leave the Sunflares alone. They're fine as they are. Stop blaming the weapon for your incompetence at proper dodging. Not aiming this at anyone specifically, but I felt it was needed as ideas to nerf Sunflares were brought up...
+1 to making the safety range 30m (same as flares)
However, I think simply buffing up the speed to the same isn't enough. We could actually fill a niche with those 2 launchers if we give them some special stat that only they have, thus making them a legitimate alternative to Sunflares, not only for newbs but even to veteran players. I propose the following:
Iceflares:
Buff the speed to 95 m/s
Reduce the delay to 0.8 s
Reason: Iceflares are very light and do little damage. Upping the speed to 10 m/s higher than sunflares make them a dangerous alternative to them, despite them not packing a punch as big as sunflares do. Reducing the delay a bit allows for quicker flare juggling options (new players can learn the ropes a bit easier then...)
Starflares:
Buff the speed to 90 m/s
Increase the damage to 1100
Increase the weight to 700kg
Reason: Starflares are not as light as Iceflares but hit harder. They should be put into a damage-alternative to the Sunflare that only flies a bit faster than Suns but still does reasonable damage.
The 100kg extra weight is supposed to be a tradeoff for the damage increase.
P.S: Leave the Sunflares alone. They're fine as they are. Stop blaming the weapon for your incompetence at proper dodging. Not aiming this at anyone specifically, but I felt it was needed as ideas to nerf Sunflares were brought up...
I see where you are going with this Sieger but... I think the current mass/damage ratio of all flares is set perfectly.
Sunflares need to remain the top tier rockets and star flares and ice flares can be an alternative for lighter ship/weapons load outs for players who prefer going 'lighter' over packing more punch.
Also they need to provide a viable rocket use experience for lower level players/newbies.
As yoda and I, pointed out earlier - the speed of flares is not very significant (in this 5-10 m/s difference range). Changing this stats would probably have more of a psychological value for unexperienced players who check the stats and have to decide if speed is more important then damage ratio.
I like the stats you proposed - I would gladly use ice and star with those stats in various combinations but I am also afraid that this makes the obvious gap between available flare variants smaller.
Ice and star are low level weapons and imho the gap between them and the powerful sunflares should remain significant as it is.
Sunflares need to remain the top tier rockets and star flares and ice flares can be an alternative for lighter ship/weapons load outs for players who prefer going 'lighter' over packing more punch.
Also they need to provide a viable rocket use experience for lower level players/newbies.
As yoda and I, pointed out earlier - the speed of flares is not very significant (in this 5-10 m/s difference range). Changing this stats would probably have more of a psychological value for unexperienced players who check the stats and have to decide if speed is more important then damage ratio.
I like the stats you proposed - I would gladly use ice and star with those stats in various combinations but I am also afraid that this makes the obvious gap between available flare variants smaller.
Ice and star are low level weapons and imho the gap between them and the powerful sunflares should remain significant as it is.
Mmh. It would probably kick them off their role as lower-tier rockets in comparison to the oldschool sunflares. But what's so bad about that? Alternatives don't hurt. But a bigger counter argument is probably the level requirements being too low considering what you could do with them after the buff.
Suppose I may suggest them as Mk2 variants another day. :P
Suppose I may suggest them as Mk2 variants another day. :P
Start the thread! We need more flare variations!
Changed my mind again
Change nothing! The stats are fine! (except copy the firefly trailing fire effect to sunflares)
Change nothing! The stats are fine! (except copy the firefly trailing fire effect to sunflares)