Forums » Suggestions
I will still blow people up because they're blue little shits or I don't like them. But yeah, not the worst idea.
Logging out while being engaged by a PC enemy is not cheating since there is no rule given by Guild Software stating so. STOP projecting your gameplay preferences upon other people. This is an ONLINE game, and thus connecting and disconnecting are an inherent part of gameplay. People can disappear just as easily as they can appear.
Are people complaining about the ability of people to leave alts stationed in specific areas in order to log on easily and play from those particular sectors? No they aren't, despite it being just as annoying.
What you have here is a small group of frustrated pirates who don't like how the game doesn't shape itself to their every whim.
Rather than asking the devs to display the private decision making of players (i.e. displaying if they are logging out), you should instead be asking for better ways of demanding payment that remove the guessing game of "whether or not they are typing or logging".
I would MUCH prefer giving people with S-I-U KOS the ability to request/demand payment with a clickable pop-up than for the logout status to be revealed. I shall make a suggestion to this extent.
Are people complaining about the ability of people to leave alts stationed in specific areas in order to log on easily and play from those particular sectors? No they aren't, despite it being just as annoying.
What you have here is a small group of frustrated pirates who don't like how the game doesn't shape itself to their every whim.
Rather than asking the devs to display the private decision making of players (i.e. displaying if they are logging out), you should instead be asking for better ways of demanding payment that remove the guessing game of "whether or not they are typing or logging".
I would MUCH prefer giving people with S-I-U KOS the ability to request/demand payment with a clickable pop-up than for the logout status to be revealed. I shall make a suggestion to this extent.
Draugath, I also think targets logging off in front of someone breaks the immersion. Maybe logging off should be limited to empty sectors and if the sector you were in is not empty when you go to log on, you log on in the next adjacent empty sector.
It's a much smaller immersion break than the meta that was requested in the original post.
Yeah, I do like letting them logoff with a warning that they'll persist more than just preventing them outright. Useful if they're just hanging out in space with their non-guild friends and want to log out without having to move first.
@Greenwall: It is, in fact, cheating, and no amount of ranting will change that. It is very clear that the devs do not intend for people to be able to magically escape from danger by logging out -- if that were not the case, they wouldn't have implemented the logout timer or the various ways of interrupting or extending that timer. The scenario we are addressing here is simply an area they missed, not an intended method of escape. This is all very obvious; please stop insulting everybody's intelligence with your claims to the contrary. I don't know why you're so obsessed with having the ability to magically vanish in the middle of an encounter to the extent that you would propose a far more disruptive alternative to the various fixes suggested here, but you need to get over it.
@Greenwall: It is, in fact, cheating, and no amount of ranting will change that. It is very clear that the devs do not intend for people to be able to magically escape from danger by logging out -- if that were not the case, they wouldn't have implemented the logout timer or the various ways of interrupting or extending that timer. The scenario we are addressing here is simply an area they missed, not an intended method of escape. This is all very obvious; please stop insulting everybody's intelligence with your claims to the contrary. I don't know why you're so obsessed with having the ability to magically vanish in the middle of an encounter to the extent that you would propose a far more disruptive alternative to the various fixes suggested here, but you need to get over it.
Greenwall right now:
I LOL'ed at this line:
Rather than asking the devs to display the private decision making of players (i.e. displaying if they are logging out) ...
Sometimes I kinda want to dissect greenwall's brain - it's wired in very strange ways.
I LOL'ed at this line:
Rather than asking the devs to display the private decision making of players (i.e. displaying if they are logging out) ...
Sometimes I kinda want to dissect greenwall's brain - it's wired in very strange ways.
@rin
I'm strongly against the idea of "trapping" people in game to satisfy the gamebreaking bloodlust of a handful of people who keep trying to find reasons to forget that VO simply doesn't have the kind of population you want.
I agree with some of the frustration voiced in the preceding bug post. The mechanics of how to disrupt someone's logoff timer is clearly janky, unclear, and evidently buggy.
The two main supporters here (yoda and rin - who, it's important to note, play pirates as their main characters), have said their primary concern is not being able to distinguish between people logging out and people "figuring out" how to /givemoney, or perhaps even respond in chat. I can empathize with this frustration, and, as a show of support of the pirate RP, I suggested finding a different way to help differentiate between those two situations. Funny how it addressed their "main concern" but failed to gain their support.
It is an absurd idea to address a piracy issue by revamping the logout mechanics for people across the entire game, affecting many scenarios of gameplay that have absolutely NOTHING to do with piracy, let alone nothing to do with PvP.
@joyless
You'll never understand how my brain works because your brain isn't smart enough. Your only ability is to function as a heckler in the peanut gallery.
I'm strongly against the idea of "trapping" people in game to satisfy the gamebreaking bloodlust of a handful of people who keep trying to find reasons to forget that VO simply doesn't have the kind of population you want.
I agree with some of the frustration voiced in the preceding bug post. The mechanics of how to disrupt someone's logoff timer is clearly janky, unclear, and evidently buggy.
The two main supporters here (yoda and rin - who, it's important to note, play pirates as their main characters), have said their primary concern is not being able to distinguish between people logging out and people "figuring out" how to /givemoney, or perhaps even respond in chat. I can empathize with this frustration, and, as a show of support of the pirate RP, I suggested finding a different way to help differentiate between those two situations. Funny how it addressed their "main concern" but failed to gain their support.
It is an absurd idea to address a piracy issue by revamping the logout mechanics for people across the entire game, affecting many scenarios of gameplay that have absolutely NOTHING to do with piracy, let alone nothing to do with PvP.
@joyless
You'll never understand how my brain works because your brain isn't smart enough. Your only ability is to function as a heckler in the peanut gallery.
+1 to OP, and +1 to persistent ships if a player is disconnected. Disconnect should punish only the player disconnecting, as there is no way to distinguish between legitimate and intentional DC. If you DC while flying with a samo or dent parts (or other expensive cargo), you should lose them. It's that simple. -1 TO SENDING PLAYERS TO A STATION IF THEY LOG OFF/GET DC'D IN SPACE. This has "exploitable" written all over it.
Greenwall, why suggest something that will never be implemented? Adding an interface for hails/demanding money that makes it easier to pay sounds nice, but it is just unrealistic, at least in the near future. All we're asking for is for one event to be added (PLAYER_LOGGING_OUT or something, it may even already exist) and a message to be displayed when this event is triggered by another player in your vicinity. It is a very reasonable request with the minimum amount of extra features/changes I can think of, and it completely solves the problem. ANY method of differentiating between whether your target is logging out or trying to pay has the same effect, why choose the hard way when there's an easy way to accomplish the same thing?
Edit:
Also, the logout timer won't change, it will still be 10 seconds. The fact that it *already is* 10 seconds is FOR THIS EXACT REASON: so you can't exploit it. Notifying nearby players seems very much in line with the original intention of the mechanic, IMHO.
Greenwall, why suggest something that will never be implemented? Adding an interface for hails/demanding money that makes it easier to pay sounds nice, but it is just unrealistic, at least in the near future. All we're asking for is for one event to be added (PLAYER_LOGGING_OUT or something, it may even already exist) and a message to be displayed when this event is triggered by another player in your vicinity. It is a very reasonable request with the minimum amount of extra features/changes I can think of, and it completely solves the problem. ANY method of differentiating between whether your target is logging out or trying to pay has the same effect, why choose the hard way when there's an easy way to accomplish the same thing?
Edit:
Also, the logout timer won't change, it will still be 10 seconds. The fact that it *already is* 10 seconds is FOR THIS EXACT REASON: so you can't exploit it. Notifying nearby players seems very much in line with the original intention of the mechanic, IMHO.
What if, instead of having a notification for a player logging off, the notification would just be for when a player is disconnected? Make it a line of text in the chat bar broadcasted to everyone within 1000m like the notifications for when a ship jumps to another sector.
Then when someone logs off in space, have their ship persist for an extra 10 seconds after the disconnect, giving someone in the immediate vicinity plenty of time to destroy the ship before it poofs away.
Then when someone logs off in space, have their ship persist for an extra 10 seconds after the disconnect, giving someone in the immediate vicinity plenty of time to destroy the ship before it poofs away.
meridian, I like your suggestion as well and it might be the best in the thread. I think the ships should persist at least a few minutes after logging out, though. This suggestion would allow us to get rid of the logout timer altogether. Nobody should be forced to watch their ship go boom. ;)
Supporters of this idea should remember that the devs have made intentinal changes to prevent us from knowing whether or not someone is online. It only makes sense that this privacy is extended to the initiation of the log out process.
That's like saying because we don't get a notification when anyone jumps anywhere in the whole universe, we shouldn't be able to see where they are jumping when we are within 1000m. Just because you don't want something to happen doesn't mean it shouldn't.
No its not like saying that.
Supporters of this idea should remember that the devs have made intentinal changes to prevent us from knowing whether or not someone is online.
False. The only change devs made was how the guild page works. It's absurd to expect privacy regarding who's online in-game, since you instantly know who's online as soon as you're in the same sector, as well as anyone else this person chooses to notify. How exactly does the logout notification in-sector further violate anyone's privacy?
It's hilarious that this is coming from a staunch TGFT supporter, especially after how your guild released a privacy-shattering plugin that secretly turns all users into spies.
False. The only change devs made was how the guild page works. It's absurd to expect privacy regarding who's online in-game, since you instantly know who's online as soon as you're in the same sector, as well as anyone else this person chooses to notify. How exactly does the logout notification in-sector further violate anyone's privacy?
It's hilarious that this is coming from a staunch TGFT supporter, especially after how your guild released a privacy-shattering plugin that secretly turns all users into spies.
The only change devs made was how the guild page works.
False. We used to able to see who was online. We used to be able to send a message to someone to check if they were online. Go back to your peanut gallery.
False. We used to able to see who was online. We used to be able to send a message to someone to check if they were online. Go back to your peanut gallery.
Avoiding replying to what I said about no privacy in-sector, I see. I'll repeat it again for you since your reading skills seem... Below average for lack of a more polite term.
There is already no privacy when you're in the same sector as someone else in-game. Their presence tells you instantly that they are online. Likewise, when they disappear from a sector without jumping, you know instantly that it means they logged. It follows that in-sector activity is NOT private by intentional design.
There is already no privacy when you're in the same sector as someone else in-game. Their presence tells you instantly that they are online. Likewise, when they disappear from a sector without jumping, you know instantly that it means they logged. It follows that in-sector activity is NOT private by intentional design.
"I can empathize with this frustration, and, as a show of support of the pirate RP, I suggested finding a different way to help differentiate between those two situations. Funny how it addressed their "main concern" but failed to gain their support."
It failed to gain my support because it's a bad idea. I do like how it would simplify payments and avoid the confusion we've complained about, but giving people the ability to throw a popup in other people's faces (even with frequency limits) is too exploitable. That would cause a lot more harm to the game than simply tweaking the logout mechanics.
The OP is one of the least harmful ways to achieve the goal. The only people it harms are those who think logging out should be a valid escape mechanism. Yet you keep claiming it would affect "many scenarios of gameplay." How? What gameplay does a local logout notification affect?
It failed to gain my support because it's a bad idea. I do like how it would simplify payments and avoid the confusion we've complained about, but giving people the ability to throw a popup in other people's faces (even with frequency limits) is too exploitable. That would cause a lot more harm to the game than simply tweaking the logout mechanics.
The OP is one of the least harmful ways to achieve the goal. The only people it harms are those who think logging out should be a valid escape mechanism. Yet you keep claiming it would affect "many scenarios of gameplay." How? What gameplay does a local logout notification affect?
+1 to OP.
My objections regarding widespread non-piracy scenarios was primarily in regards to restricting log out if another PC is within a certain proximity, and, for example, would affect the following non-piracy scenarios:
-the ability to log out of: PvE group combat situations (queen, levi, botting, etc)
-the ability to log out of a busy sector (i.e. station sector, or B8, etc) if you aren't docked
My objection to the public logout indicator was less scenario based and more centered on the general privacy issues, and, yes, additionally that it is a valid escape mechanism (assuming the timer remains in place). People shouldn't be able to know if I've decided to initiate logging out any more than they should know any other number of decisions I'm making (giving money to another player, plotting nav coordinates, etc). I'm surprised that's not something you agree with Rin, given your various stances in the past. I guess since you see it as cheating you are willing to look past it.
@joyless
Since you asked: I'm avoiding replying to various things you say because they are stupid. Sometimes I enjoy replying to stupid things you say, but sometimes it dilutes the intelligent conversation the rest of us are trying to have.
-the ability to log out of: PvE group combat situations (queen, levi, botting, etc)
-the ability to log out of a busy sector (i.e. station sector, or B8, etc) if you aren't docked
My objection to the public logout indicator was less scenario based and more centered on the general privacy issues, and, yes, additionally that it is a valid escape mechanism (assuming the timer remains in place). People shouldn't be able to know if I've decided to initiate logging out any more than they should know any other number of decisions I'm making (giving money to another player, plotting nav coordinates, etc). I'm surprised that's not something you agree with Rin, given your various stances in the past. I guess since you see it as cheating you are willing to look past it.
@joyless
Since you asked: I'm avoiding replying to various things you say because they are stupid. Sometimes I enjoy replying to stupid things you say, but sometimes it dilutes the intelligent conversation the rest of us are trying to have.
