Forums » Suggestions
Faction standing|NFZ|Rehoming requirements|capital ships
Starting off with, people have seen this problem before some noob goes and homes in corvus then is mad when he gets camped and cannt get out.
First off: -------------------------------------------------
---Disallow any homing to any station outside capital systems & nation space when the player has less than combat lv 3.
Ie, Itani can only home in Itan, UIT in Dau ext...
Than for less than combat level 5 disallow homing in anyplace outside nation space.
This fixes:
*Noob camping (vets can be still camped, they should know better by then)
*Possibly slow the stat padding of PKs, as one would have to have the bots travel 3km and jump before pk can be recorded. Also given nation space faction penalties / requests for forgive would slow down this process even more.
Second: -------------------------------------------------
---Warning signs for when a player attempts a jump into grey space. They must click accept/continue to pass through the WH.
This should be a warning for all players. Included at combat level 3+ is a checkbox that says don't annoy me with this crap again. (or ignore this message from now on)
*This fixes: We all heard it, especially in famy, the little rants that little noobs have when we shoot them in grey. Grey is supposed to be dangerous. But they need to be told that first. This is where the frustration of most noobs is, they don't have the warning sign that they are about to enter hostile space.
Third:-------------------------------------------------
---Do away with the NFZ attack force in all but grey space. Replace with turrets armed with capital railguns fired at 5km/s with a range of 5km. They can do either of 2 things, concussive or damage.
Concussive will make it difficult for the attacker to get a bead on the victim and the damage will actually be somewhat useful compared to the NFZ Orun force as it is.
Capital systems ofcourse have beefed up turrets, while non nation/capital systems have weaker versions of the turret.
*This fixes:
Makes the NFZ actually a real NFZ. So the victim cannot be nearly insta-destroyed and the attacker goes out without a scratch.
& see below
Forth:-------------------------------------------------
---15 minute KOS timer doesn't expire when the player dies.
This was inspired by my experience in EVE. If you are going to play the pirate, then you need to be treated like a pirate. Which means you will be known for being a pirate not just after one goes and suicides in an EC.
*this fixes:
Enforces NFZ and makes faction standing actually worth while
Removes EC suicide to get around 15 min penalty.
Fifth:-------------------------------------------------
----Remove re-homing if you attack a player in your homed station. only rehome when you become permanently KOS.
Again inspired by Eve, if you where stupid enough to attack a player while in nation space and be homed in the same area, then you deserve to be station camped for 15 minutes (and destroyed about 2 seconds later by the turrets) Perhaps in that 15 minutes one will reflect on attacking someone in faction space.
This fixes:
Makes attacks in home stations have consequences
Ties in with 4
Sixth Seventh Eighth & Ninth (all interlinked):
Sixth:-------------------------------------------------
----Money in VO needs to have value
The only reason to have money is to buy ships & equipment or buy stuff to make more money.
Seventh:-------------------------------------------------
----Capital ships need to have value
Capital ships are just that, capital. they need to be big, blundering, slow, Ineffective against small targets, massively damaging to targets of their size.
Likewise small ships should be ineffective against large capital ships. Why is it that a single rag can take out a capital ship?
Eighth:-------------------------------------------------
----Capital ships need to be possible to purchase and trade. (with accommodating weapons)
*This fixes:
Again inspired by EVE, Capital ships are big and bad, but are crappy against small ships and expensive to buy, expensive to build. Makes making money all the worth while.
Battleships fitted with large battleship type weapons are absolutely useless against small targets like frigates. But against smaller ships such as frigates they dominate. However a pack of frigates can easily hound a battleship to rubble.
Battleships are also expensive. Frigates to a degree. Super capital ships are very very very expensive. Everything is of-course manufacture able, however the bigger the item the more time and material it takes (up to the point that its value in materials is its cost of buying it outright)
To put a price in VO terms, how-bout
Frigates (including type M) = 50mill
Destroyer = 100mill
Battleship = 500mill
To get that battleship, your going to have to get money and/or money is going to be of value no?
Especially when your battleship runs into another players battleship and goes boom.
Ninth:-------------------------------------------------
----Capital ships should have some measurable resistance to small ships
See above
It doesn't make it worth having if the ship can be blown up in 30 seconds by 3 bots right?
Tenth:-------------------------------------------------
----Building requirements shouldn't take months to complete
It shouldn't take 10 minutes either, that will kill the value of money and bring us right back to where we are at now.
For effort taken to complete, lets say when you work your ass off:
Frigates: 1 week
Destroyer: 2 weeks
Battleships: 2 months
Eleventh (Only if 6-10 is implemented):-------------------------------------------------
----Capital ships do not get 'insured' / replaced by paying a type of cheap insurance. If it goes boom you have to pay the full price.
*6-11 Fixes
This gives something of value of vo money. It also gives something to work for, something to build and possess that might get an edge over your opponent.
This will help in peoples attempts to use exploits to give themselves an edge over their opponents
This will help give people something to do in VO, and once that big ship goes boom, well you have to start all over again.
Twelve: (only if 11 is implemented)-------------------------------------------------
----Capital ship components should be manufacturer everywhere, at 5-10x the cost (materials/taxes/time) of-course.... Only specific player owned stations should be able to manufacture at the base prices (thus making them worth fighting for)
*Fixes:
Gives everyone the ability to manufacture (and sell) even if at extraordinary prices.
Thirteen:-------------------------------------------------
----Noob system with one way WH
The system contains bots, roids, hoops (to fly through) all for a little noob to enjoy themselves. and to practice and learn the game. To exit, they go through a one way worm hole. This WH being one way only will negate the ability for players to go and attempt to harass the noobs before they even know what VO stands for.
*fixes:
Self explanatory
So lets see...
First off: -------------------------------------------------
---Disallow any homing to any station outside capital systems & nation space when the player has less than combat lv 3.
Ie, Itani can only home in Itan, UIT in Dau ext...
Than for less than combat level 5 disallow homing in anyplace outside nation space.
This fixes:
*Noob camping (vets can be still camped, they should know better by then)
*Possibly slow the stat padding of PKs, as one would have to have the bots travel 3km and jump before pk can be recorded. Also given nation space faction penalties / requests for forgive would slow down this process even more.
Second: -------------------------------------------------
---Warning signs for when a player attempts a jump into grey space. They must click accept/continue to pass through the WH.
This should be a warning for all players. Included at combat level 3+ is a checkbox that says don't annoy me with this crap again. (or ignore this message from now on)
*This fixes: We all heard it, especially in famy, the little rants that little noobs have when we shoot them in grey. Grey is supposed to be dangerous. But they need to be told that first. This is where the frustration of most noobs is, they don't have the warning sign that they are about to enter hostile space.
Third:-------------------------------------------------
---Do away with the NFZ attack force in all but grey space. Replace with turrets armed with capital railguns fired at 5km/s with a range of 5km. They can do either of 2 things, concussive or damage.
Concussive will make it difficult for the attacker to get a bead on the victim and the damage will actually be somewhat useful compared to the NFZ Orun force as it is.
Capital systems ofcourse have beefed up turrets, while non nation/capital systems have weaker versions of the turret.
*This fixes:
Makes the NFZ actually a real NFZ. So the victim cannot be nearly insta-destroyed and the attacker goes out without a scratch.
& see below
Forth:-------------------------------------------------
---15 minute KOS timer doesn't expire when the player dies.
This was inspired by my experience in EVE. If you are going to play the pirate, then you need to be treated like a pirate. Which means you will be known for being a pirate not just after one goes and suicides in an EC.
*this fixes:
Enforces NFZ and makes faction standing actually worth while
Removes EC suicide to get around 15 min penalty.
Fifth:-------------------------------------------------
----Remove re-homing if you attack a player in your homed station. only rehome when you become permanently KOS.
Again inspired by Eve, if you where stupid enough to attack a player while in nation space and be homed in the same area, then you deserve to be station camped for 15 minutes (and destroyed about 2 seconds later by the turrets) Perhaps in that 15 minutes one will reflect on attacking someone in faction space.
This fixes:
Makes attacks in home stations have consequences
Ties in with 4
Sixth Seventh Eighth & Ninth (all interlinked):
Sixth:-------------------------------------------------
----Money in VO needs to have value
The only reason to have money is to buy ships & equipment or buy stuff to make more money.
Seventh:-------------------------------------------------
----Capital ships need to have value
Capital ships are just that, capital. they need to be big, blundering, slow, Ineffective against small targets, massively damaging to targets of their size.
Likewise small ships should be ineffective against large capital ships. Why is it that a single rag can take out a capital ship?
Eighth:-------------------------------------------------
----Capital ships need to be possible to purchase and trade. (with accommodating weapons)
*This fixes:
Again inspired by EVE, Capital ships are big and bad, but are crappy against small ships and expensive to buy, expensive to build. Makes making money all the worth while.
Battleships fitted with large battleship type weapons are absolutely useless against small targets like frigates. But against smaller ships such as frigates they dominate. However a pack of frigates can easily hound a battleship to rubble.
Battleships are also expensive. Frigates to a degree. Super capital ships are very very very expensive. Everything is of-course manufacture able, however the bigger the item the more time and material it takes (up to the point that its value in materials is its cost of buying it outright)
To put a price in VO terms, how-bout
Frigates (including type M) = 50mill
Destroyer = 100mill
Battleship = 500mill
To get that battleship, your going to have to get money and/or money is going to be of value no?
Especially when your battleship runs into another players battleship and goes boom.
Ninth:-------------------------------------------------
----Capital ships should have some measurable resistance to small ships
See above
It doesn't make it worth having if the ship can be blown up in 30 seconds by 3 bots right?
Tenth:-------------------------------------------------
----Building requirements shouldn't take months to complete
It shouldn't take 10 minutes either, that will kill the value of money and bring us right back to where we are at now.
For effort taken to complete, lets say when you work your ass off:
Frigates: 1 week
Destroyer: 2 weeks
Battleships: 2 months
Eleventh (Only if 6-10 is implemented):-------------------------------------------------
----Capital ships do not get 'insured' / replaced by paying a type of cheap insurance. If it goes boom you have to pay the full price.
*6-11 Fixes
This gives something of value of vo money. It also gives something to work for, something to build and possess that might get an edge over your opponent.
This will help in peoples attempts to use exploits to give themselves an edge over their opponents
This will help give people something to do in VO, and once that big ship goes boom, well you have to start all over again.
Twelve: (only if 11 is implemented)-------------------------------------------------
----Capital ship components should be manufacturer everywhere, at 5-10x the cost (materials/taxes/time) of-course.... Only specific player owned stations should be able to manufacture at the base prices (thus making them worth fighting for)
*Fixes:
Gives everyone the ability to manufacture (and sell) even if at extraordinary prices.
Thirteen:-------------------------------------------------
----Noob system with one way WH
The system contains bots, roids, hoops (to fly through) all for a little noob to enjoy themselves. and to practice and learn the game. To exit, they go through a one way worm hole. This WH being one way only will negate the ability for players to go and attempt to harass the noobs before they even know what VO stands for.
*fixes:
Self explanatory
So lets see...
Individual suggestions should be posted into their own threads and not lumped together.
What draugath said.
1) This topic has been recently discussed here https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/30560
2) Better warnings also recently discussed. I have no objection to the suggestion, but given the vulnerability of UIT inside it's own borders, it seems to me that this should be fixed first.
3) -1 While I want greater protection within UIT space for newer players, there should still be the opportunity for piracy at stations. Particularly F6 in Nyrius. I would also reiterate that there should be sub faction stations sprinkled in Serco and Itani space to encourage piracy there as well as potential trade improvements
4) 0 Repeat killings incur stronger or rather longer penalties. However, I have long argued that VO needs more and better consequences for player actions so I'm not rejecting this kind of solution out of hand.
5) I don't get what you are trying to describe here.
6) Credits do have value. The problem is that getting them is too easy and from mostly safe and lazy methods.
7) I agree that a trident should be able to do serious harm to another trident while being relatively ineffective against smaller ships offensively. The trident isn't a real capital ship, it's more of a midrange. Look at the connie or hac in Deneb for a comparison. Those are capital vessels. And a rag can take out a trident's shields because it is a bomber. It takes a group of rags to take down anything larger.
8) They could, but they don't need to. Personally, I like that they are manufactured only. I wish there was more of that in VO. I do however wish that they were less tedious to build.
9) This issue has been dealt with for the short term. Hopefully it will be fully resolved when those bots are reintroduced to the game.
10) Again, I sort of agree that building tridents should be easier. In fact I think pretty much every manufactured item should have the requirements nerfed. However, the insurance to rebuy makes the effort mostly worth while in the end since you can replace a lost trident without having to endure the grind of rebuilding it- even in a lesser fashion.
11) No objection if the dependent suggestions are implemented.
12) -1 I still prefer that tridents are manufactured. I still maintain that the crucial items of ffsa and fcp should be manufacturable at non conquerable stations.
13) +1 I have always thought that players should be able to choose their nation at the point of being released from the training sector. This would put all new players together in one area where they could meet before venturing out into the wider game as well as introduce them to the different aspects of the game and it's dangers. Let them run some of the beginner missions beyond just learning to pilot their ships.
1) This topic has been recently discussed here https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/30560
2) Better warnings also recently discussed. I have no objection to the suggestion, but given the vulnerability of UIT inside it's own borders, it seems to me that this should be fixed first.
3) -1 While I want greater protection within UIT space for newer players, there should still be the opportunity for piracy at stations. Particularly F6 in Nyrius. I would also reiterate that there should be sub faction stations sprinkled in Serco and Itani space to encourage piracy there as well as potential trade improvements
4) 0 Repeat killings incur stronger or rather longer penalties. However, I have long argued that VO needs more and better consequences for player actions so I'm not rejecting this kind of solution out of hand.
5) I don't get what you are trying to describe here.
6) Credits do have value. The problem is that getting them is too easy and from mostly safe and lazy methods.
7) I agree that a trident should be able to do serious harm to another trident while being relatively ineffective against smaller ships offensively. The trident isn't a real capital ship, it's more of a midrange. Look at the connie or hac in Deneb for a comparison. Those are capital vessels. And a rag can take out a trident's shields because it is a bomber. It takes a group of rags to take down anything larger.
8) They could, but they don't need to. Personally, I like that they are manufactured only. I wish there was more of that in VO. I do however wish that they were less tedious to build.
9) This issue has been dealt with for the short term. Hopefully it will be fully resolved when those bots are reintroduced to the game.
10) Again, I sort of agree that building tridents should be easier. In fact I think pretty much every manufactured item should have the requirements nerfed. However, the insurance to rebuy makes the effort mostly worth while in the end since you can replace a lost trident without having to endure the grind of rebuilding it- even in a lesser fashion.
11) No objection if the dependent suggestions are implemented.
12) -1 I still prefer that tridents are manufactured. I still maintain that the crucial items of ffsa and fcp should be manufacturable at non conquerable stations.
13) +1 I have always thought that players should be able to choose their nation at the point of being released from the training sector. This would put all new players together in one area where they could meet before venturing out into the wider game as well as introduce them to the different aspects of the game and it's dangers. Let them run some of the beginner missions beyond just learning to pilot their ships.
stopped reading after a while and so will most people
do what draugath said next time
do what draugath said next time
tl;dr
Also. If you're so inspired by eve, go play eve and stop trying to turn vo into it.
Also. If you're so inspired by eve, go play eve and stop trying to turn vo into it.
We all heard it, especially in famy, the little rants that little noobs have when we shoot them in grey
This is actually my favorite part of being in famy. Those little rants make me keep coming back for more. Their reactions are so priceless. I don't want to give them less reasons to go on rants. So, -1
This is actually my favorite part of being in famy. Those little rants make me keep coming back for more. Their reactions are so priceless. I don't want to give them less reasons to go on rants. So, -1
"---Disallow any homing to any station outside capital systems & nation space when the player has less than combat lv 3."
Disallowing homing outside the capital system is way too overprotective, even to completely fresh newbs, and requiring combat 5 before homing in greyspace is also too harsh. Allowing all of nation-space from the get-go and grey starting at combat 3 would be more appropriate.
But I'd still prefer it to be standings based instead. That way they have to actually unlock it with each individual faction, which would be a more engaging process. Also, that way if you tank your standing a bit (but not all the way down to hated) you may lose homing privileges. Right now there isn't much differentiation in the disliked/neutral/respected range other than access to a few bits of equipment, so adding this as a penalty at low standing would be a nice way to add more of an escalation preceding Hated.
"---Do away with the NFZ attack force in all but grey space. Replace with turrets armed with capital railguns fired at 5km/s with a range of 5km. They can do either of 2 things, concussive or damage."
-1. That would be overdoing it by a long shot. Also, any suggestion to get rid of the SF rather than supplement them is automatically bad -- keep in mind that the SF can maneuver. Turrets are stationary. It is possible sometimes to find spots in the station geometry where turrets cannot reach you -- but the SF will follow you in.
"----Remove re-homing if you attack a player in your homed station. only rehome when you become permanently KOS. "
-1. I understand where you're going with this, but no. You're neglecting that if I am camping somebody, I should not be able to respawn right there to continue camping them once they (or the defenses) finally manage to kill me. (Remember that I don't take permanent penalties for killing them unless they're in good enough standing, so just because I'm camping them doesn't mean I have become properly KOS.)
I'm not going to read your capship suggestions. When you have unrelated suggestions, put them in different threads. Otherwise discussion gets too muddled.
Disallowing homing outside the capital system is way too overprotective, even to completely fresh newbs, and requiring combat 5 before homing in greyspace is also too harsh. Allowing all of nation-space from the get-go and grey starting at combat 3 would be more appropriate.
But I'd still prefer it to be standings based instead. That way they have to actually unlock it with each individual faction, which would be a more engaging process. Also, that way if you tank your standing a bit (but not all the way down to hated) you may lose homing privileges. Right now there isn't much differentiation in the disliked/neutral/respected range other than access to a few bits of equipment, so adding this as a penalty at low standing would be a nice way to add more of an escalation preceding Hated.
"---Do away with the NFZ attack force in all but grey space. Replace with turrets armed with capital railguns fired at 5km/s with a range of 5km. They can do either of 2 things, concussive or damage."
-1. That would be overdoing it by a long shot. Also, any suggestion to get rid of the SF rather than supplement them is automatically bad -- keep in mind that the SF can maneuver. Turrets are stationary. It is possible sometimes to find spots in the station geometry where turrets cannot reach you -- but the SF will follow you in.
"----Remove re-homing if you attack a player in your homed station. only rehome when you become permanently KOS. "
-1. I understand where you're going with this, but no. You're neglecting that if I am camping somebody, I should not be able to respawn right there to continue camping them once they (or the defenses) finally manage to kill me. (Remember that I don't take permanent penalties for killing them unless they're in good enough standing, so just because I'm camping them doesn't mean I have become properly KOS.)
I'm not going to read your capship suggestions. When you have unrelated suggestions, put them in different threads. Otherwise discussion gets too muddled.