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Sharing Tridents
Back when tridents were first introduced there was some talk about players being able to share them in some capacity. Is that something that is still planned? It's been a while since I've looked at the key I've issued for my trident, but I believe it has both an owner and a user license.
I would suggest allowing players who have been issued an owner license to take control of the trident in the absence of the primary owner / builder. Primary ownership could be retained by the builder revoking the owner license which would either immediately expel the player in possession of the trident or not allow them to take control / redock after they have undocked from the ship.
Also, if the trident is destroyed, then only the builder would be allowed to rebuild it through the insurance.
I would suggest allowing players who have been issued an owner license to take control of the trident in the absence of the primary owner / builder. Primary ownership could be retained by the builder revoking the owner license which would either immediately expel the player in possession of the trident or not allow them to take control / redock after they have undocked from the ship.
Also, if the trident is destroyed, then only the builder would be allowed to rebuild it through the insurance.
I like the idea. It would make it easier for someone to transfer the ship between alts though.
+1
This would create a market for rented capships, which I think is a great idea.
This would create a market for rented capships, which I think is a great idea.
+1
+1 I'd like the ability to rent one, but I think if you rent one from the primary owner, you should get to use the owners insurance at your expense, not the owners. But, the owner should be able to take control when he likes.
+1
-1
This means that building tridents will become far too easy. Nobody will haul individual parts in XCs through grayspace anymore, reducing gameplay for pirates. There must be some difficulty and challenge to start owning a trident, and it shouldn't be just mindless grind. VO is a twitch based combat game, and that should reflect in a major part of the trident building process.
I do realize that existing trident captains already help those who don't have a trident yet to haul their pieces. I don't consider this too game breaking because the trident captain cannot be everywhere in the universe, and he cannot always stay logged on. There are often other things he'd rather to do than to haul for some android nooby ingrate.
This means that building tridents will become far too easy. Nobody will haul individual parts in XCs through grayspace anymore, reducing gameplay for pirates. There must be some difficulty and challenge to start owning a trident, and it shouldn't be just mindless grind. VO is a twitch based combat game, and that should reflect in a major part of the trident building process.
I do realize that existing trident captains already help those who don't have a trident yet to haul their pieces. I don't consider this too game breaking because the trident captain cannot be everywhere in the universe, and he cannot always stay logged on. There are often other things he'd rather to do than to haul for some android nooby ingrate.
+1
For what Joker said: if someone wants to rent a Trident, I am sure it will only be at an extroadinary cost considering the risks and inconvenience, as well as the prestige of someone else using your trident. Renting Tridents will not be for everybody.
For what Joker said: if someone wants to rent a Trident, I am sure it will only be at an extroadinary cost considering the risks and inconvenience, as well as the prestige of someone else using your trident. Renting Tridents will not be for everybody.
if someone wants to rent a Trident, I am sure it will only be at an extroadinary cost considering the risks and inconvenience, as well as the prestige of someone else using your trident. Renting Tridents will not be for everybody.
Extraordinary cost ... risks ... inconvenience?
Do you have any idea how the key system works right now for conq stations, JHX? There's no enforced cost associated with sharing keys. If this OP idea is implemented, if you wanted to, you could share a key with a real life friend newbie for free, letting him build his trident relatively quickly in a very low risk manner. Where's this "extraordinary cost" that you speak of?
High risks? Nope, not at all. If a borrower leads a trident to its destruction, either intentionally or unintentionally, the owner would only need to pay 500k to get a brand new trident instantly. Considering that with a XC in the right places, you can make about 1 million credits within a few minutes by moving things, that's not really a costly mistake.
Inconvenience? Tell me what about this word fits here at all. Right now, the only way to "borrow" a trident is to ask the captain to haul things for you. The whole point of this suggestion is to make tridents much more convenient to use for borrowers AND lenders. The owner can revoke the borrower's key at any time, and get it back instantly. The lender wouldn't need to be logged in while the borrower is flying it.
Extraordinary cost ... risks ... inconvenience?
Do you have any idea how the key system works right now for conq stations, JHX? There's no enforced cost associated with sharing keys. If this OP idea is implemented, if you wanted to, you could share a key with a real life friend newbie for free, letting him build his trident relatively quickly in a very low risk manner. Where's this "extraordinary cost" that you speak of?
High risks? Nope, not at all. If a borrower leads a trident to its destruction, either intentionally or unintentionally, the owner would only need to pay 500k to get a brand new trident instantly. Considering that with a XC in the right places, you can make about 1 million credits within a few minutes by moving things, that's not really a costly mistake.
Inconvenience? Tell me what about this word fits here at all. Right now, the only way to "borrow" a trident is to ask the captain to haul things for you. The whole point of this suggestion is to make tridents much more convenient to use for borrowers AND lenders. The owner can revoke the borrower's key at any time, and get it back instantly. The lender wouldn't need to be logged in while the borrower is flying it.
A) Costs
Not for friends obviously, for those who want to "rent" a trident, hence the word "rent". I am saying that Trident captains who are renting out their trident would most likely rent it for a high price, seeing as they are reasonably rare and useful. Obviously some people would give their friends owner keys for free but that is unavoidable.
B) Risks
Not so much in fairness.
C) Inconvenience
Say the Lender wished to use his/her trident in Sedina, but the Borrower is using it in Itan. Since Tridents, like other ships, do not teleport, I would say it is pretty inconvenient to have to make the return trip to Sedina as opposed to not lending it, and having it on hand.
Not for friends obviously, for those who want to "rent" a trident, hence the word "rent". I am saying that Trident captains who are renting out their trident would most likely rent it for a high price, seeing as they are reasonably rare and useful. Obviously some people would give their friends owner keys for free but that is unavoidable.
B) Risks
Not so much in fairness.
C) Inconvenience
Say the Lender wished to use his/her trident in Sedina, but the Borrower is using it in Itan. Since Tridents, like other ships, do not teleport, I would say it is pretty inconvenient to have to make the return trip to Sedina as opposed to not lending it, and having it on hand.
I am saying that Trident captains who are renting out their trident would most likely rent it for a high price, seeing as they are reasonably rare and useful. Obviously some people would give their friends owner keys for free but that is unavoidable.
Tridents are not as rare as they used to be. TGFT has tens of them, for example. What bothers me about letting players set their cost is that it encourages circle-jerking and favoritism among players. Is it really something that you want to see in game, newbies getting an unfair in-game advantage over other newbies purely based on their relationships with veteran players?
Before you argue that I'm just imagining about things that may never happen, look at conquerable stations. Can you honestly tell me that favoritism was never, ever practiced by anyone when they handed out keys after a capture? I mean beyond the normal roleplaying: serco vs itani nationalism and trader vs pirate stuff. If I had a single VO credit every time I saw some circle-jerking over conq station keys, I'd be richer than all of TGFT combined.
I would say it is pretty inconvenient to have to make the return trip to Sedina as opposed to not lending it, and having it on hand.
On the other hand, it's way too convenient for a borrower to be able to fly and load a trident as if it's his own without actually building one. The benefits that come with a trident are tremendous and they shouldn't be that easy to get, period.
Tridents are not as rare as they used to be. TGFT has tens of them, for example. What bothers me about letting players set their cost is that it encourages circle-jerking and favoritism among players. Is it really something that you want to see in game, newbies getting an unfair in-game advantage over other newbies purely based on their relationships with veteran players?
Before you argue that I'm just imagining about things that may never happen, look at conquerable stations. Can you honestly tell me that favoritism was never, ever practiced by anyone when they handed out keys after a capture? I mean beyond the normal roleplaying: serco vs itani nationalism and trader vs pirate stuff. If I had a single VO credit every time I saw some circle-jerking over conq station keys, I'd be richer than all of TGFT combined.
I would say it is pretty inconvenient to have to make the return trip to Sedina as opposed to not lending it, and having it on hand.
On the other hand, it's way too convenient for a borrower to be able to fly and load a trident as if it's his own without actually building one. The benefits that come with a trident are tremendous and they shouldn't be that easy to get, period.
" newbies getting an unfair in-game advantage over other newbies purely based on their relationships with veteran players?"
As if this would make any difference. Newbies get in game advantages all of the time over other newbies simply based on what guild they join or what friends they make- or whether they have a pre Windows 8 / Android computer experience and actually know how to work with a directory.
The funny thing is that in the week that I've been back from my break I recall seeing less than 5 tridents as I fly around running escort missions. Today I saw 1 which belonged to some IVGT guy and yesterday I saw a guild mates that I exchanged some items with at M7.
As if this would make any difference. Newbies get in game advantages all of the time over other newbies simply based on what guild they join or what friends they make- or whether they have a pre Windows 8 / Android computer experience and actually know how to work with a directory.
The funny thing is that in the week that I've been back from my break I recall seeing less than 5 tridents as I fly around running escort missions. Today I saw 1 which belonged to some IVGT guy and yesterday I saw a guild mates that I exchanged some items with at M7.
I don't mean to step on feelings here but the truth is that probably less than 20 player controlled Tridents are active right now. Most of the Captains quit.
So +1. It may just make the difference and make old Captains come back.
So +1. It may just make the difference and make old Captains come back.
You own a couple of tridents, don't you Captain Fluffy? Being a captain with tridents to loan out possibly for loads of money, you're not really being objective here. I get why there are many +1s here. I can see what people are thinking, and I'm not accusing of anyone of anything but good intentions.
However Fluffy your statement that unfair advantages don't really matter is a reflection of jade-ness that vets often experience. You forget what it's like to be a newbie, and what it takes to keep people playing. This change would make the endgame of building a trident seem even more pointless, reducing the number of things to do. We need more incentives and reasons for people to build tridents and stick around, not less.
However Fluffy your statement that unfair advantages don't really matter is a reflection of jade-ness that vets often experience. You forget what it's like to be a newbie, and what it takes to keep people playing. This change would make the endgame of building a trident seem even more pointless, reducing the number of things to do. We need more incentives and reasons for people to build tridents and stick around, not less.
Favourtism obviously exists. And this isnt an issue.
Obviously a newbie who makes no friends will be at a disadvantage to a newbie who has become friends will veterans, hence why newbies ever bother to join guilds.
The incentive will most certainly still remain, even if you can rent tridents. That sense of "ownership" will never be sated with a rented trident that the real owner can take away at any time. Would you not want your own car just because you can rent one? The fact that there are hardly any ACTIVE tridents left also means the incentive is still there.
The quicker the S and P tridents are released, the faster new incentive will enter the game.
Obviously a newbie who makes no friends will be at a disadvantage to a newbie who has become friends will veterans, hence why newbies ever bother to join guilds.
The incentive will most certainly still remain, even if you can rent tridents. That sense of "ownership" will never be sated with a rented trident that the real owner can take away at any time. Would you not want your own car just because you can rent one? The fact that there are hardly any ACTIVE tridents left also means the incentive is still there.
The quicker the S and P tridents are released, the faster new incentive will enter the game.
You make a valid argument Joylessjoker. I am not persuaded by it myself, but I think it has real merit.
You are mistaken in assuming credits are the reward that would entice me to lend out my trident. Rather, instead my benefit would be in being able to do other things in the game while still rendering aid to guildmates or other friends in game. As I've said elsewhere, I'm sick to death of hauling under the current methodology the game provides.
Obviously hauling isn't the only way newer or untridented players would beneift. Farming would become easier for them- again without me needing to be there doing the grunt work.
I want to be able to help people in the same way that I was helped while building my trident, but I'm tired of being sequestered away from the rest of the game in order to do so.
Being able to transition the trident between characters would be nice as well. I'd love to have a go with it up in Deneb to see how it helps or doesn't help.
You are mistaken in assuming credits are the reward that would entice me to lend out my trident. Rather, instead my benefit would be in being able to do other things in the game while still rendering aid to guildmates or other friends in game. As I've said elsewhere, I'm sick to death of hauling under the current methodology the game provides.
Obviously hauling isn't the only way newer or untridented players would beneift. Farming would become easier for them- again without me needing to be there doing the grunt work.
I want to be able to help people in the same way that I was helped while building my trident, but I'm tired of being sequestered away from the rest of the game in order to do so.
Being able to transition the trident between characters would be nice as well. I'd love to have a go with it up in Deneb to see how it helps or doesn't help.
Joylessjoker, Inc has said he has considered manufacturable turrets. This would introduce a cost to owning stations and other areas of space, but they better increase the turrets armor first. Currently a single rag can take one out....
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/29054#350024
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/29054#350024
That sense of "ownership" will never be sated with a rented trident that the real owner can take away at any time. Would you not want your own car just because you can rent one?
I'm not sure if this comparison is valid. Owning a real life car is absolutely a necessity for many people, to commute, etc. Have you played a game where you used a cheat to get unlimited money and resources, just to try that ultimate weapon or armor, then you find out it's not as cracked up as it seemed to be? Here's what usually happens when you use cheats in a game: you get tired of it quickly. The fun of working towards a goal is ruined now that you have had a taste of it. I fear that the same will happen with tridents - people will get to see what it's all about, instead of just dreaming about it. The dreaming is what drives people to build one. "Oh, it's just a big slow cargo ship with a few turrets. It's not really that great. Besides I can always borrow one whenever I feel like using one" says a newbie who just "cheated" and lost motivation to build one for himself.
The fact that there are hardly any ACTIVE tridents left also means the incentive is still there.
It seems that you're new around here. If you're not new, you would know that approximately 90% of the outspoken "new players" are in fact vet players starting yet another alt character. That's why many tridents seem to not be active right now - those vets are bored with their main characters so they are leveling up their alts. If this change is implemented, all of those vets will excitedly transfer their tridents to their alts, suddenly increasing the perceived number of active tridents.
I want to be able to help people in the same way that I was helped while building my trident, but I'm tired of being sequestered away from the rest of the game in order to do so.
I feel you. I like that you're eager to help newbs fit into the game. However, we need to think of ramifications in the bigger picture as well. I think that the current system is fine. The fact that you need to be sequestered away from the rest of game while helping someone else build their trident is a balancing factor that prevents them from getting helped too much. If they're helped too much and trident building becomes a painless and quick process, it won't be as gratifying when they finish it. The more active tridents there are, the less special and unique they are. Let's slow all of the building down a little. As Savet would argue, what would you find more enjoyable: a furious masturbation session or a slow, passionate fuck with your lover?
I'm not sure if this comparison is valid. Owning a real life car is absolutely a necessity for many people, to commute, etc. Have you played a game where you used a cheat to get unlimited money and resources, just to try that ultimate weapon or armor, then you find out it's not as cracked up as it seemed to be? Here's what usually happens when you use cheats in a game: you get tired of it quickly. The fun of working towards a goal is ruined now that you have had a taste of it. I fear that the same will happen with tridents - people will get to see what it's all about, instead of just dreaming about it. The dreaming is what drives people to build one. "Oh, it's just a big slow cargo ship with a few turrets. It's not really that great. Besides I can always borrow one whenever I feel like using one" says a newbie who just "cheated" and lost motivation to build one for himself.
The fact that there are hardly any ACTIVE tridents left also means the incentive is still there.
It seems that you're new around here. If you're not new, you would know that approximately 90% of the outspoken "new players" are in fact vet players starting yet another alt character. That's why many tridents seem to not be active right now - those vets are bored with their main characters so they are leveling up their alts. If this change is implemented, all of those vets will excitedly transfer their tridents to their alts, suddenly increasing the perceived number of active tridents.
I want to be able to help people in the same way that I was helped while building my trident, but I'm tired of being sequestered away from the rest of the game in order to do so.
I feel you. I like that you're eager to help newbs fit into the game. However, we need to think of ramifications in the bigger picture as well. I think that the current system is fine. The fact that you need to be sequestered away from the rest of game while helping someone else build their trident is a balancing factor that prevents them from getting helped too much. If they're helped too much and trident building becomes a painless and quick process, it won't be as gratifying when they finish it. The more active tridents there are, the less special and unique they are. Let's slow all of the building down a little. As Savet would argue, what would you find more enjoyable: a furious masturbation session or a slow, passionate fuck with your lover?
"The fun of working towards a goal is ruined now that you have had a taste of it."... we already have this problem joyless. Most people who play to build quit afterwards. Getting rid of the insurance would solve that since they'd have to build it again and keep parts on hand to rebuild, but fat chance of that happening. Also, using the parts to build a smaller ship that we can upgrade over time would be more fun too. I'd rather grow a trident with part modules then have to grind with nothing to show for it for months on end.
I like this idea because the trident isn't really all that great and borrowing one from a full subscriber who is active at least keeps it and the owner in the game. And, if an owner of something they built want to share it, they should get to.
I'm not sure why you'd think dents would transfer between alts if dents could be lent out. First, dents should be transferred, they should be rebuilt. What may appear to be transfers may actually be renames, joyelssjoker. At least I hope that is the case.
And, this doesn't just help newbs. I'd love to borrow one occasionally. I'm not the long term grind building type which is how VO has it set up. I like to build things slowly over time and have something to show for it while building.
I like this idea because the trident isn't really all that great and borrowing one from a full subscriber who is active at least keeps it and the owner in the game. And, if an owner of something they built want to share it, they should get to.
I'm not sure why you'd think dents would transfer between alts if dents could be lent out. First, dents should be transferred, they should be rebuilt. What may appear to be transfers may actually be renames, joyelssjoker. At least I hope that is the case.
And, this doesn't just help newbs. I'd love to borrow one occasionally. I'm not the long term grind building type which is how VO has it set up. I like to build things slowly over time and have something to show for it while building.
"The fun of working towards a goal is ruined now that you have had a taste of it."... we already have this problem joyless. Most people who play to build quit afterwards.
Sure, that's because we don't have enough endgame content after a trident is done. Thanks for agreeing with my points in the other thread about improving guild stuff. I'm not arguing that we don't have this problem yet, but that this problem is already real and implementing this trident sharing thing would exacerbate it. People would get bored with tridents long before they finish theirs, because they have had a taste of it, and not even bother building them. Then what do they do? They leave for greener grounds, AKA other games, BEFORE THEY EVEN BUILD THEIR OWN TRIDENTS.
And, if an owner of something they built want to share it, they should get to.
People can already dock with someone else's trident for RR and have the owner haul cargo for him. That's plenty of sharing.
I'm not sure why you'd think dents would transfer between alts if dents could be lent out.
Because right now keys can be given from alt to alt, on the same account. If a mechanism is implemented that prevents this from occurring, then that would fix one of the problems indeed.
And, this doesn't just help newbs. I'd love to borrow one occasionally. I'm not the long term grind building type which is how VO has it set up. I like to build things slowly over time and have something to show for it while building.
Translation: I'm too lethargic and slothful to build one, so I'd like to borrow a trident from someone else to "gain" bragging rights without actually having one. Really? You should tape your own blabbering and listen to it sometime. Of course you shouldn't get to drive a trident if you didn't put in the time and effort required. Be honest with yourself: if a guild member is happy to lend you a trident indefinitely for free, for as long as you need it for small mundane tasks, and you can re-borrow it as many times as you like in the future, would you bother building one? You already admitted you're not even bothering to make real progress towards one now.
Sure, that's because we don't have enough endgame content after a trident is done. Thanks for agreeing with my points in the other thread about improving guild stuff. I'm not arguing that we don't have this problem yet, but that this problem is already real and implementing this trident sharing thing would exacerbate it. People would get bored with tridents long before they finish theirs, because they have had a taste of it, and not even bother building them. Then what do they do? They leave for greener grounds, AKA other games, BEFORE THEY EVEN BUILD THEIR OWN TRIDENTS.
And, if an owner of something they built want to share it, they should get to.
People can already dock with someone else's trident for RR and have the owner haul cargo for him. That's plenty of sharing.
I'm not sure why you'd think dents would transfer between alts if dents could be lent out.
Because right now keys can be given from alt to alt, on the same account. If a mechanism is implemented that prevents this from occurring, then that would fix one of the problems indeed.
And, this doesn't just help newbs. I'd love to borrow one occasionally. I'm not the long term grind building type which is how VO has it set up. I like to build things slowly over time and have something to show for it while building.
Translation: I'm too lethargic and slothful to build one, so I'd like to borrow a trident from someone else to "gain" bragging rights without actually having one. Really? You should tape your own blabbering and listen to it sometime. Of course you shouldn't get to drive a trident if you didn't put in the time and effort required. Be honest with yourself: if a guild member is happy to lend you a trident indefinitely for free, for as long as you need it for small mundane tasks, and you can re-borrow it as many times as you like in the future, would you bother building one? You already admitted you're not even bothering to make real progress towards one now.