ARF: current capital class weapons, while nice to have, are not a balancing measure against removing sector hopping. And yes, this is really about sector hopping in general (not just for Tridents). I for one think it's good for the game. People should be able to flee the scene if they can jump out.

I think the best way to counter sector hopping is with tracking devices. Banning it outright is a huge and unwarranted give to a small group of people.

Tracking devices are irrelevant when the ship you're tracking can jump away in less time than it takes for your weapons hit them.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about Greenwall.

+1 arf, tracking shouldn't be necessary! Tridents have lots of mass. Maybe, mass could be taken into account in jump times. Make a trident with a fast cell sit there motionless for 5+ minutes while jumping with a tiny ships power cell. That would be a fair tradeoff.

ARF, try thinking out your responses before you lob insults. Just makes you look like the stupid one.

Of course tracking devices could be relevant. Make them last for 20 minutes and issue a white dot just like groups and they will be very relevant. If you had a group of people in pursuit this would give them many more chances at trapping the dent -- regardless of the powercell on the dent.

It shouldn't be easy to trap a ship after it jumps out of a sector. It should require some advanced coordination of multiple people (in the case of tridents).

Right, so you know where that Trident is thanks to your fancy-schmancy tracking device. The moment anyone hostile jumps in to the sector, they're going to jump back out and start sector-hopping again. Tracking devices cannot solve this problem.

Pinning down a Trident shouldn't be easy, and even with a THC it isn't, but the FC makes it damn near impossible once the ship is in clear space.

20 minutes is a long time.... when was the last time you sector hopped for 20 minutes straight? The tracking device could function in such a way that the person being tracked isn't aware. This would open a door for a surprise attack.

There are countless ways of going about it that would make gameplay MUCH more interesting -- all of which are much better than prohibiting Tridents from escaping a single pursuer -- which is completely ridiculous and bad for the game.

Vendetta is a combat game. Easy escape methods are inappropriate. The appropriate response to being attacked by a single puny ship is to kill the puny ship.

Vendetta is a combat game. Easy escape methods are inappropriate. The appropriate response to being attacked by a single puny ship is to kill the puny ship.

1. Vendetta is a sandbox game, and, of the various gameplay aspects it encompasses, combat is one.

2. Easy escape methods have been mitigated well over the years. If you can't catch a ship in sector, there is no good reason (for the game, at least) why it should be "easy" to follow it and catch it in another after it jumps. Jumping out of a sector should be the threshold between imminent risk of danger and reduced risk of danger. All you whiners about sector hopping would be just as happy if there were no sectors at all -- just one big space area where nobody could run away from you. That's not how the game was designed.

3. Puny ships can be deadly if the circumstances are correct, and it is not always possible to counter-attack.

Evasion is a completely legitimate aspect of combat. If you take away an important evasive ability without adding something to counter-balance it, you hurt the game, and thus, if you play, yourself.

Evasion by rapidly jumping from sector to sector in a way that makes you impossible to touch is not a legitimate way to play the game. If you maintain an inappropriately effective evasive ability without adding something to counter-balance it, you hurt the game, and thus, if you play, yourself.

"3. Puny ships can be deadly if the circumstances are correct, and it is not always possible to counter-attack. "

Yes, and we have a word for this: It's called losing.

@pizzasgood: If 10+ years of it being in place doesn't make it legitimate, I don't what legitimate means. Very few people complain about it, i.e. it's not an important issue.

There have been many measures taken to counter-balance people jumping out of a sector to avoid a fight: displaying their jump-to location if you are within 1000m AND allowing it to be access by Lua and therefore an auto-nav plugin; requiring a certain amount of battery charge to jump out; requiring a certain distance from the nearest fixed object to jump out; requiring a full battery to jump through a wormhole; powercell blasters to prevent people from jumping; draining a trident battery when the captain undocks; making ships vulnerable and uncontrollable in the jump-out animation; adding unmarked asteroid fields to disrupt travel; etc.

Now, if someone becomes skilled enough to figure out how to rapidly jump from sector to sector, then good for them. It's just one means of evasion among many others, such as using an infiniturbo ship (which are completely uncatchable if used right), using scouts or monitoring bots, jumping to a station sector, jumping to a storm, etc etc.

The fact is that you don't like it, period, regardless of what Incarnate thinks or intends. And ...that's...just like....your opinion, man.

Losing takes many forms in VO, not just by having your ship destroyed. The entire opposition to sector hopping is a reaction to losing, like it or not.

Player capships didn't exist for 10+ years. Almost every other ship can be killed in a couple of seconds during the jump animation. This thread is not arguing that this is a valid evasion tactic for smaller ships. The point we're trying to make here is that it's totally inappropriate for Tridents to jump just as fast as a fighter and that they should work differently (by using a slower charging powercell)

Why are you so insistent on preserving this stupid game mechanic for capital ships?

I've said it about three times already ARF: If you remove sector hopping ability from tridents then A) it becomes possible for a single person to kill a fleeing player trident [BAD]; and B) people will be less inclined to take their tridents to battle, or just out in general [BAD].

One would assume that the OP is intended to make it easier to kill fleeing tridents, but the opposite is true, since there will be less tridents out there to kill (not that there really are any right now anyway, lol).

@Greenwall

Trident sector hopping with a FC makes it almost uncatchable if he doesn't hop into a roid sector by accident.
One player cannot kill a fleeing trident unless trident pilot is afk.

Removing the ability for tridents to use FC instead of THC will make the sector hopping a tad more difficult as a legitimate escape technique but... if player in question is not up to combat he can always use the tested "Sieger maneuver" - force quit his client so trident disappears immediately.
Upon logging back his trident is with full shields, 3000 m away and ready to jump again.

Maybe it's lame and unethical but since devs turn their eyes from examples like this - "Sieger maneuver" is a legitimate play style.

Greenwall, so what you're claiming is that a Trident stands no chance of survival or escape against a single hostile player unless it has the ability to sector hop until the pilot scores a lucky dice roll that puts them beyond the 1000m range where jumps are tracked.

You're also claiming that dice rolling is so critical that changing how often the pilot can do it from 1.25 seconds (Fast Charge) to 6.67 seconds (Trident Heavy) spells CERTAIN DOOM when faced with a single hostile player.

Bullshit.

Back when they were first implemented, I would have agreed with you, but we've got shields, turrets, beefy powercells, and the ability to undock and fight now.

If the turrets on the Trident are such an utterly useless defense in an escape scenario, maybe there's a good, fun way to fix that instead of perpetuating stupid mechanics like untouchable jumps and dice-rolling. I really have no idea why you're so vehemently opposed to that though...

Trident sector hopping with a FC makes it almost uncatchable if he doesn't hop into a roid sector by accident.
^ The NavComp plugin even has a way to automatically plot those evasion jumps for you to avoid asteroid fields and storms. People have been using that for years now.

One player cannot kill a fleeing trident unless trident pilot is afk.
^ I've never killed one with a FC in empty space that wasn't caught with the pilot's pants down. Anyone who's paying attention just jumps out the moment a hostile player hits the sector list.

@ARF: My claim is clearly spelled out. Your re-interpretation of it is incorrect.

@Bojan: I'm not surprised you can't think of a way a single person can bring down a fleeing trident if they can't sector hop with a FC. I'm also not surprised you are bringing your hatred for TGFT into this thread, like you do every thread. You should see a doctor about your anal pain.

@wall of forested hue (credits to Rin for this name)

I am a bit new to this trident stuff. I killed several tridents with furies and one by using station strike force but I seriously don't know any other ways a single pilot can kill a trident on his own.

Also, I am not bringing any hatred here, this is a game and I don't hate anyone.

I called this exploit "Sieger maneuver" because he was the first player i have seen using it and, knowing how TGFT are a bunch of guys ready to exploit anything they can, this name seemed more then appropriate.

Just because you have a 10 years worth stock of Preparation H to ease your everyday butthurts it doesn't mean other players have the same problems as you do.

Bojansplash says:

"I am not bringing any hatred (for TGFT) here"

next paragraph:

"...TGFT are a bunch of guys ready to exploit anything they can..."

lulz

One player cannot kill a fleeing trident unless trident pilot is afk.

The trident pilot might be fleeing because his shields are down. A single pilot can kill a dent with no shields.

Deep breathes all around.

Too much emotion, not enough discussion.

"knowing how TGFT are a bunch of guys ready to exploit anything they can" lol, like all SKV fly clean

Facts do not equate to hatred. If you have problems accepting facts then you should become a relativist philosopher.