Honestly, the biggest problem im having here.. is figuring out what the point of this proposed weapon is? What roll does it fill besides the already annoying trollmining that happens in grey all the time anyway (aside from making it even more annoying). We already have the mini teller-ulam which is already abused by dents intentionally detonating their own mines to clear attackers, this just does it with twice the blast radius, twice the damage, and twice the prox distance...and 6x the ammo....

It was somewhat interesting when it still had the potential to deshield a trident and the potential downside of leaving yourself vulnerable, otherwise its just a BS way to kill everything attacking you..

summary: It serves no role other than to make trident pilots wet their pants.. -1

@greenwall "Why don't you go to a conq station and see how far away the turrets are from eachother and from the center and then come back tell us"... with 6 ammo and 8 turrets, I guess if you had buddies or responding enemy that holds station set them off, quick conquer?

I'm irritated by how many arguments against this suggestionare are made up haha. What's wrong with it? Okay so let me talk about them:

- No veteran player is going to intentionally destroy newbies with them all the time. The thing will be stupidly expensive to reload and it would be a waste of money. If I were a griefer, I would rather undock a fighter than waste a mine.

- No one is also going to cluster mine WHs. No one has been doing it with TUs either; it maybe happened twice in a year. It's stupidly risky to do it: If you are caught by the enemy before you are done, you may risk a TU launcher, either because they dart in and get your laying ship or because they tumble into a mine you are next to at the moment.

- No one is going to conquer stations with that weapon. As Greenwall pointed out, the range problem is there and here the problem of risking your Trident is kicking in. WHO wants to risk a mine-launcher that is hard to build just to conquer a station?

- No one is "abusing" TUs on Tridents already. Defensive measure is the POINT of this weapon. Stop complaining about it. If the strategy is well, you will still be able to destroy the Trident WITH the Captain inside it. The problem isn't that the Tridents are too hard to get when a Captain is inside and dropping TUs, the problem is that all the veterans who are too full of themself and claim to be elite combatants lack any sort of tactical thought that is relevant for such an undertaking, that's the impression I've had from most of the times where my Trident had been "hunted" lately. Spend a thought or two guys, it isn't hard.

Excuse the harsh wording there. Just please come up with serious problems about this weapon. I can understand the issue people have with it having too much ammo, it could be debated down anytime. I also think the reload should be atleast one or two million per depoloyed mine.
Other than that it is a cool endgame toy for veterans with little chance of being abused.

I don't get it, doesn't anyone see in how many ways this proposed mine could be abused and how seriously overpowered it is?

The sole purpose of this suggested weapon is to make a cozy mass destruction solution for trident pilots so they don't ever need to leave their ship.
Jump in a hive skirmish, kill everything with one mine, scoop cargo and leave.
Jump in a queen sector, kill escorts and deshield queen with one mine, finish queen with another mine.
Jump in an arklan sector kill all with 1 mine, scoop sss and avalons.
Jump in B-8 during a furball - launch a mine, score some easy pks.
Sit on top of conq station during station conquest, launch mines whenever station becomes conquerable, kill everyone 6 times over.

Possibilities are endless and VO community has been known to jump to exploit such possibilities whenever they can.

Will such weapon make filthy rich TGFT players feel invincible in their dents?
Sure it will, and that's why Sieger salivates over this.
They can take out their 20+ tridents out and play "we own VO".

The sole purpose of this proposed weapon is to cheat the existing game mechanics and allow easy EVERYTHING without using any actual skill.

We already have the mini teller-ulam which is already abused by dents intentionally detonating their own mines to clear attackers

What exactly is "abuse" about using a mine launcher as a defensive weapon? People wouldn't have to intentionally detonate them if the stupid proximity trigger worked correctly in the first place.

Either way, -1 to OP.

Bojansplash +1

I also think the reload should be atleast one or two million per depoloyed mine.

1-2mil a pop is ridiculously cheap for what it does, even to my poor pirate alts. Kill a double hive queen spawn with a couple of those and I'll likely get my money worth back from the drops.

Sieger I honestly question your motives when I watch you vehemently denying that anyone would ever use them on newbs. I don't see why I wouldn't cluster those mines around WHs for lols, especially given that I can make millions with a vanilla XC within minutes, moving the right things among the right stations. At your proposed price, refilling isn't a problem at all for my poor alts.

I wish people started reading. It would be really cool if people did that, I tell you.

Bojansploosh - It took me a while to realize you mean the stuff you typed with your fingers there. So let's see...
1. Hive Skirms: You can't explode everything with one mine magically. You basically waste one expensive mine to destroy the 5 or 6 bots that are in 1000m range with you. Maximum 10 if you get lucky. Idiotic. No one does that.
2. Queens: The Skirm Queens have shields higher than 35k and you cannot destroy them fully with even 6 of these mines. If you don't know the values, then don't mention them. The only queen this may be any effective on is the static one. But who would invest that much cash again...?
3. Arklan-theory: See 1. for this. You can maybe take out 5 Arklans at once and get around 20 SSS and maybe 1 or two Avs. You can do that six times and then fly all the way back to M7 to reload for 12 million. Idiotic²
4. Easy PKs against the enemy: Yeah. That's what this is for Sherlock. We are playing a war game. In a war you will see big guns. Welcome to VO.
5. Station conquest: Yep. The guy can also do that 6 times and it will again cost him 12 million. If we make them more expensive to reload, than even more. Building a Trident should be rewarded. And we can barely call that a reward when he has to pay highly just to wreck the idiots who are attacking his station again.

The Hive "abuse" accusations are funny. You seem to know precious little about that. I would NEVER use that mine for my Hive matters. It would be such a waste. Come back when you have a Combat level higher than 20 and wrecked over 100,000 Hive bots like I did; then we can talk.
And lay off the RP-whining. Rather get your guildmates to build you a Trident so you don't miss out when we deploy 20 x 6 = 120 of those mines in B8! :P

joylessjoker - Sure. I have no issue with making the reload per mine more expensive. Make it 4 or 5 million then. I'm cool with it. I'm just worried about the not so rich other Trident Captains. Haha.
And I can't help you if you would waste expensive mines on newbs. I wouldn't and I know that most sane other vets wouldn't either.

Nah, Sieger. It's stupid and unbalanced to use money to reload, since there's plenty of it everywhere. Instead, make it unreloadable with only 1 ammo. If you want to launch another one, build a whole new mine launcher. This is what I would consider balanced and fair.

You are one bitter little man with a huge ego Sieger.

1. Of course you can explode everything but I forgot that brave TGFT don't leave their dents in hive skirmishes so they don't get all bots rush to attack pilotless dent. Your precious might get deshielded but you can kill all bots in the sector if you wait long enough.

2. When I said queens I meant queens ,not critical skirmishes.

3. Arklans - see under 1.

4. Guns require skill, dropping mines does not. But, since you are all high and mighty in playing a VO vet and all REAL VO veterans know you bought a vet account with Alpha and Beta badges to boost your ego and get some bragging rights, please do tell us more about this, oh you glorious vet master?

5. Station conquest - money is cheap and most TGFT like Ecka have billions, what's a measly 12 mil for scoring pks you ordinarily can't score unless you drop mines.

Allow me to address some concerns:

Concerns about mass killing in hive skirmishes:

The only reason someone would use this nuke for this reason would be for lulz or farming. Either way it does not negatively affect the gameplay of other players in any significant way. We already can farm by mass-killing bots in a much cheaper and efficient way than dropping a self-damaging mine. And "for lulz" reasoning is fleeting at best -- we all might try it once just to see, that's about it.

Concerns about making killing non-skirmish queens easier

Killing non-skirmish queens is the most inefficient way of queening, even if you could instantly kill them. A non issue. Also, if you own a trident, you probably don't give a crap about killing queens anyway.

Concerns about making killing Arklan Guardians easier:

Flying all the way from Latos to Bractus/Pelatus/Edras to drop a limited quantity of these mines (which will likely damage your trident as well) in order to kill a handful of Arklans and support bots is a highly inefficient method of SSS or avalon farming. Anyone who has any experience doing this knows this.

Concerns about getting killed by a weapon that wasn't aimed precisely at your ship:

These are not valid concerns for the game. Proximity limit triggered mines are an established staple of VO weaponry.

Concerns about use in conquerable station battles:

Even with one of these nukes loaded, there are risks associated with bringing in a trident into a conquerable station battle. It is without question that such a weapon opens up new gameplay dynamics, however I feel those most heavily voicing these concerns are naively selective in their criticism. Namely, the proximity and total damage of a single mine poses a threat both to friends and foes alike.

The importance of knowing whether or not a weapon of this magnitude is loaded on a ship would become highly elevated. UDVs would find new application in this regard, as well as an increase in the little-used addon scanners.

Mines laid near stations to thwart enemies from docking can of course be remediated by splash from an Avalon blast. Furthermore, mines could be purposedly detonated by an enemy ship to de-energize and trap a trident with a teammate firing a PCB -- likely preventing it from laying any more mines.

Concerns about the ammo count:

One of the most annoying things about the existing TU is the ammo count. I totally agree the mini nuke should be increased as well. I also think there should be a way to determine (via add-on scanners) the available ammo on people's ships. If you drop the ammo count too low, it becomes a weapon that almost nobody will use. There is absolutely no point in introducing a weapon that nobody wants to use.

Joyless Joker's humorous suggestion of reducing the weapon to an unrefillable 1x ammo just show's he's trying to troll and be inflammatory rather than have a productive discussion. It is clear that nobody would use this weapon if his suggestion was applied.

Concerns about reload cost being too cheap:

As quite possibly the richest character in VO, I can tell you that even I still prefer to repair my trident with a repair ship than risk paying the repair fees of Latos M7. Vets may have deep pockets, but that doesn't mean they suspend practicality. If you make the reload cost too high, you again make it a weapon nobody wants to use. And, for the record, I didn't include a reload cost in the OP. I will now though.

Toys can be taken away or nerfed. I say give people something to do. I could care less either way since it isn't something that I would go out of my way to build or use. Nevertheless, if someone is willing to invest the time in aquiring these tools, then I don't see any problem with any of the potential uses / abuses mentioned.

-1. Trident deployed mines are a terrible way to fight other tridents, and the existing TU is already sufficient for trolling small fighters.

+/-0 to Op

Let's try it what are the risks?

Mastering B8? Introduction of trident has already killed the good all furball we used to find fun.

TGFT to get richer? Who cares? They have built 20 tridents? i have never seen them binging them all to battle in a sector, and i am pretty sure some of the players who own them dont even play anymore. Greenwall busting you in a sector, go elsewhere he will get bored to play alone.

Mining every wh in the game so you cant travel anymore. Well logoff and play something else or go watch a movie. I think ye can only do that once or two, after you will feel very very alone in the game.

Conquering and keeping station; Again who cares? there are pointless unless you want to build a trident. And most of people can't be assed to build one.

If people in favor of OP are right, it wont change anything but only to the minority of people who have a trident, if they are wrong, the devs will nerf or remove that very quickly when they'll see the drop in subscriptions.

Exactly, gentlemen. Let's try this, let's invent it. It can't "break" the game. Also there isn't going to be a lot of change. You must keep in mind that VO is still quite low populated at times. There aren't suddenly going to be 1000 people with tridents who deploy big TU mines everywhere. There aren't many Tridents and there will be even fewer people who will bother to get hands on this mine.

Pizzasgood - I don't think that the weapon would be used much in the combat against other capships. The risk of destroying your allies by dropping the mine is much too high. That's why it's an interesting idea in the first place: It is very risky and very explosive. That's what we want in VO isn't it? A lot of "boom".

bojansploosh - Greenwall has cleared up all the issues in his post. Some facts though:
Skirm bots, Arklans or anything else are not able to deshield a Trident. I said it once, learn the numbers, you fool. I did not buy my account either. I had a legit account I played a bit in '03 and just had it reactivated. Bring serious arguments against the mine, don't insult me as a person. It won't help.

EDIT: Edited the RP bit out. WHile rochelGoyle voiced it in an unfriendly way, he is right. Let's keep that outta here.

Sad that the Suggestion forum is as entertaining as the Role Playing forum.

This probably has a lot to do with why the devs don't look at these fuck holes much anymore.

Have fun polluting the forums guys. Seems to be a favorite past-time of many of you mouth-shitters.

-1 to OP

If the mini-TU mines were given more ammo, this would be sufficient for me. And stop calling it mini damn it! Kinda like saying jumbo shrimp, but worst. At least jumbo shrimp are bigger than their comparable counterparts. Mini-TU has no comparable counterparts. Therefore, we can just call it the TU mine.

Mini-TU has no comparable counterparts.

Thanks captain obvious!

"I played a little in '03 when I was much younger, left a long time and simply had the account reactivated half a year ago. "

Really Sieger?
I even know who sold you the account and who it belonged to originally.
Stop bullshitting with the story you sold to the devs to transfer your chars to this old vet's account, we know better.

So, after review of posts, -1's have it, trident captains back to the drawing board

I recommend Ideas that bring people together not give one person a one click solution (more people should review my ideas, they at least were geared to bringing battles close together)

/me awaits next big explosive idea

I really enjoy good rp but that is ridiculous. Can you shut up now bojansplash? Your friend has already realized it was stupid to bring RP here but instead of shutting up about it like him you make a COMPLETELY unrelated post with big accusations. Delete it and move your insults in-game if you need to make them...

BTT:

I'm thinking this is a cool toy but not a large priority item. I'd much rather see the developers invest time into nice new ships and the new docks for capships on capitol stations that theyve been talking of. Another important thing that is missing is ship trading which still hasn't been invented if some of you haven't realized. I haven't been in game much lately but I'm sure many of the newbies are still wondering why that isn't there. Let's make a thread for that instead and fill it with spam so it gets noticed ;-)

I'm thinking this is a cool toy but not a large priority item.

I totally agree many other things should take priority. However this particular suggestion would take minimal dev time since it's based on the existing TU mine. Simply duplicate the TU mine object and give it a new name and stats. Making the mission would require much more time, but PCC players can handle that, not the devs.

It is kinda funny how vehement the opposition is on this one, I must say.