Fuck... No...

Also I'd like to point out that many ships are at a maneuverability disadvantage because of their shape gives them bad rotational/angular inertia/momentum whatever buffing spin torque won't help that and its also why I'd much rather fly cents or valks hell even the greyhound is better than raptors in that regard

Seems spidey is missing the point.

seam spidey understands the point, but is blue.

Changes to the stats of the UDV would be a first sufficient fix. It is not likely that changes to the profile size are done anytime soon.

Lord~spidey: That is quite possibly the most ignorant post in a while. You openly admit that you'd pick even a Centurion over a Raptor anytime but then yell that you don't want to see any changes done to the specs

Roda Slane - You are right. I think that is quite the problem. I never understood why all the Itani and Serco are so eager to keep the UIT ship down. This is not the first suggestion that has a point and adresses the UDV Raptor. And immediately the whining begins, even when it is obvious that changes are more than justified.

yeah my post was definitely ignorant so let me explain myself a little bit more here, buffing the UVD with the suggested stats would make it a maneuverable beast with heavy weapons and shouldn't happen.

The reason the raptor sucks is because of the insane amount of angular momentum it has due to its shape light ships are extremely dependent on being able to lead targets at close range unless you fly with some strict distance controlling and wicked aim with AA off.

my point is it would be stupid to try to compensate for the craptors inability to lead targets on at close/medium range with buffed stats because you'd only make it suck a little less at close quarters combat whilst making it far too powerful doing anything else. with my flying style IBG are by far superior to any other ship because of their ability to turn quickly without having too much momentum and overshooting the targeting window.

yeah i'm one ignorant motherfucker i only fly ibg/valks and never engage in honorable combat with my opponent so i have a heavy bias towards all those awesome light itani ships.

@Queen~spidey: All you are saying, is that there is no fix for the UDV, and therefor, no one should fly it. Thank you for your assistance.

Now, for the rest of us, that do wish to find a fix, and a reason to fly a UDV, please proceed.

Nice thread.
To address the suggested buff making the UDV lighter than the warthog: technology improves over time. The warthog is obviously not a new ship design and its price could indicate that it is not made of the newest most cutting edge materials. The UDV n the other hand is brand spanking new and would naturally use the newest materials and techniques in construction. This would makie it significantly lighter.
I say just try it and if it is too OP then it can be adjusted again. From reading previous posts I get the idea that all Inc needs to do is type in new numbers and that can easily be done. Why protest so much about a change we haven't tried?

+100

It is about time UIT got a really decent ship. Most of the objections are from those who are afraid of what some of us UIT pilots could do if we got a ship that could really hold its own against their Valks and Proms. VO needs to do something since they took away our ability to buy them.

And before you say, as has been said before, Traders also need good combat ships to protect our trading vessels.

Spidey continues to miss the point.

also see: UDV quick/dirty buf

@roda and @greenwall I think spidey does get the point... I always thought the udv needs a profile/shape change to fulfull the mission inc expects of the udv... "More for border enforcement, taking on grayspace pirates in numbers, and police matters.." and I think everyone can agree that the way it's set up it cannot fulfill inc's expectations. I hope the change can be accomplished while keeping the looks of vo's coolest looking ship :)

edited to add the location of inc's post that had that quote that joylessjoker put in the other thread...
http://vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/29615?page=2#354777

The prom is also huge but does just fine turning. The point Spidey is missing is twofold, in that 1) the UDV is the UIT exclusive combat ship and 2) it isn't exclusive in PvP in any way.

Regardless of what Incarnate's "plans" for the UDV are (or were - since in all likelihood we will never see anything close to a full implementation of whatever he had imagined given the all but complete stoppage of any content development), the reality is UIT are shafted in the combat department with nothing else to compensate for it. And, honestly the old line about "UIT aren't supposed to have advanced combat ships" is total bullshit and everyone knows it.

The UDV buffs can only be legitimately debated in a way that shows acknowledgment of the above. Saying you'd rather fly a valk, IBG or hound is showing complete naivite of the topic.

You guys seem to be missing the point he udv has two large ports.

Megaposis are incredibly better than any small weapon by a crazy margin jackhammers are also extremely powerful albeit harder to use than sunflares but they have twice the refire rate and 33% more damage. I haven't flown it yet but I've flown tons of large port centric ships and I can tell you if you make this thing handle as well if not better than a vult with more armor and dual lport weapons you're going to get a beast of a ship.

You guys are spitting on my argument because you're not getting my point I'm so sorry but the udv has wicked stats on paper already and having flown he craptor mark2 plenty of times I can tell you this stat buff borders on the ridiculous, you cannot fix this ships fat ass with a faster electric scooter it'll still be fucking fat.

For the raptor to actually fit in its role the model needs a scale down and its extremities shortened or something so it stops turning like a six foot long floppy rubber dick.

Also if you guysidn't get it I was being sarcastic about only flying valks and ibg I fly pretty much any random-ass combat ship at any given time and I've played on plenty alts (most of them UIT) that most you suckas don't know about so stop saying I'm some naive ignorant fool who doesn't know what he's talking about or has a stupid bias towards itani ships

Thanks to all who understand the problem. The UIT do indeed need a decent combat ship to hold its own. I feel like somebody's pushing the replay button. I already said that I do not want a ship that is "better than" or "as good as" the Valk or the Prom. I am suggesting an UIT exclusive combat craft that is very good at PvP in its very own way.

Those who have commented and mentioned that tweaks to the profile of the ships etc. may be wiser or better... You have a point. But we all know that it is not happening. It is simply too much work the developers won't have time for. It is easier for them to zoom through this thread, see who's proposal they deem fair and then switch some values. Long term I'd of course enjoy a profile reduction just like many others.
At this point I would also like to point out that, as VikingRanger said, stats can always be changed back! If the final tweaks on the scrap paper of the devs turns out to be too overpowered, by all means, I'll be the last to complain when voices rise to switch it back to something more fair.

When was the last time you flew in a wtd its fekking awesome and is really the only ship that bridges between the best light fighters and the best heavy fighter

It's silly to say the the raptor needs a size adjustment. Diversity is important in a game. The smarter move would give to give the UDV features that balance it against the advantages Itani and Serco have. It doesn't HAVE to be the OP, but it has to be something: radar, add ons, introduce a new large port weapon that gives the raptor dominance in various areas of PvP, etc etc.

It's pretty basic when it boils down to it.... gameplay is unbalanced. It needs a correction.

Well to be fair I've yet flown the udv but I can tell you for all the shortcomings the craptor has being able to slap on two megaposis is a big deal and probable makes up most if not all of its shortcomings. Seriously for a seat 500kg gun which I'll have you know is the same weight as its s-port counterpart it does 50% more damage for a meager 20% increase in energy demand.

Not to mention how much of a wicked sprint it has, coupled with its low drain its probably the best in-sector chase boat by a wide margin until someone is dumb enough to put a plasma Annie or swarms on it anyway.

The UDV's got 225m/s top speed and better armor than the WTD. You really aught to give it a try.

I feel like I am talking to a wall.

A) Stop comparing the Raptor to anything. I know the WTD is awesome. I like to fly it. But it doesn't suit for comparison.
B) The profile reduction is not going to happen anytime soon. From incarnate's recent posting I've drawn the assumtion that there is quite some trouble going on. More than he may tell us. So getting a buff is probably as good as it gets in the next few months. And since I find the UDVs lack of combat capability to be at immediate need of a fix, it's smarter to go for maneuverability changes rather than going for a profile adaption that *might* change a problem.
C) The UIT deserve a good combat ship to defend theirself. When a UIT newbie asks about Proms/Valks (and it doesn't happen rarely) I don't want to say "And have the UDV...". I would like to say "We have the UDV and it is decent."
D) And stop this farce about the Mega Posi. Yeah it is a very good weapon and you can put it on the UDV. But 1) it is the only worthwhile to put on it while there are plenty decent setups for all the other ships and 2) once you get to a close range fight and your enemy is good with Sunflares, you are toast.

i wasn't comparing the WTD to the craptor, you're complaint is that the UIT doesn't have anything that hold its own in combat like the valk and the skyprom and i'm telling you the WTD definitely does.

you're talking to a wall because I think the changes you proposed are totally ludicrous and would break the game more than anything you're not going to convince me the UDV needs 250+KN of base thrust even with its current mass or even if you increased its mass, if you slap megaposis on it its still very maneuverable moreso than any warthog yet deals crazy awesome damage you're suggesting we make it as snappy as a vulture whilst weilding shit like jackhammers/plasmadevs and as maneuverable as a cent if it weilded megaposis and i'm telling you that shit just don' make sense bro.

also you underestimate how powerful the megaposi, you're right about the flares though and i'll agree the craptors suffers a lot from this but the problem falls back to its angular momentum and flarespin, flarespin mechanics will fuck just about anything up especially something that turns like a floppy donkey dick.

also if you're complaining about a light UIT fighter UIT has subfactions that might as well be considered part of UIT since they operate solely in UIT space and UIT pilots start with +200 standing making those ships really easy to get, much easier than grinding a fuckton to get the levels for the UDV i'll have you know you've got the XT vult and he centurion rev c and the latter definitely holds its own in light combat so neener neener you UDV buff is moot imo, UIT is pretty much a conglomerate of corporations releasing standardized ships every sucker can fly for cheap they don't do the bleeding edge light combat fighter with heavy weapons your looking for I don't know why you're so adamant to make the craptor into something it isn't meant to do.

Even as it is with its current stats its fucking amazing at a bunch of stuff better than any of the base ships by a wide margin.

I'll go back to my original analogy because its perfect; you're not going to fix this ships fat ass by putting it in a faster electric wheelchair you'll just make it ridiculously overpowered at a bunch of things and it'll still suck at close/medium range combat.