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Greenwall you're making the most circular fucking arguments you can here. I said new Serco leaders need status and to be established, for that yes they need a trident.
Just because we move the tridents away from the conquerable stations doesn't mean it has to turn into an exercise in carebearism.
TGFT has always played favourites with Itan, most Itan members have TGFT alts and vice versa. They're inseparable guilds and they have proven that on multiple occasions they will lie to cover up their affiliation at all costs.
ONE are not too proud to negotiate, they just didn't come down in the last shower.
Just because we move the tridents away from the conquerable stations doesn't mean it has to turn into an exercise in carebearism.
TGFT has always played favourites with Itan, most Itan members have TGFT alts and vice versa. They're inseparable guilds and they have proven that on multiple occasions they will lie to cover up their affiliation at all costs.
ONE are not too proud to negotiate, they just didn't come down in the last shower.
Serco's problem is indeed that they have no respectable leaders. But contradict to TheRedSpy's approach that they need a super-asshole that everyone is afraid of, I say they need somebody who all the newbies respect. Respect so much that the newbies say "woah this guy is cool. i'm proud being serco and want to join his guild". Currently, Serco lacks such a person. The leader of ONE is a amazingly bitter person and everytime
he angrily comes with his fists raised out of his cave when I blew up his buddy's spaceships I feel he takes this game too seriously, even more so he probably really has anger issues. Nobody wants to join a guild like that.
I'd say Serco even needs 3 very active, very clever people to lead. Ones that see it is plain stupid to be at war with the game's largest trading guild. TGFT does not "side" with Itan. One of our Lts is Serco,
I used to play a Serco as main for a good while and guess what I still have him and he is still Serco and enjoys being Serco. The siding argument gets old. Leave it away.
Anyhow! Said couple of players would have to understand it, approach all neutral guilds to set up relations
and then finally show some good recruiting. If they worked properly, they would surely get access to stations. Because in a war of two guilds that are friendly with TGFT, we won't engage of course. It is simple as that.
The time of grumpy Serco chiefs is over, VO is facing an increase of many new players. Make sure the Serco ones stick around if you want more of them.
he angrily comes with his fists raised out of his cave when I blew up his buddy's spaceships I feel he takes this game too seriously, even more so he probably really has anger issues. Nobody wants to join a guild like that.
I'd say Serco even needs 3 very active, very clever people to lead. Ones that see it is plain stupid to be at war with the game's largest trading guild. TGFT does not "side" with Itan. One of our Lts is Serco,
I used to play a Serco as main for a good while and guess what I still have him and he is still Serco and enjoys being Serco. The siding argument gets old. Leave it away.
Anyhow! Said couple of players would have to understand it, approach all neutral guilds to set up relations
and then finally show some good recruiting. If they worked properly, they would surely get access to stations. Because in a war of two guilds that are friendly with TGFT, we won't engage of course. It is simple as that.
The time of grumpy Serco chiefs is over, VO is facing an increase of many new players. Make sure the Serco ones stick around if you want more of them.
Pirates on the other hand are, by their very nature, going to be shut out of stations for the majority of the time -- whether or not I want them to be is irrelevant.
By our nature? THC perhaps, but FAMY has repeatedly offered to make some sort of deal/compromise such as marking the conquerable station areas pirate-free (no warranty selling, no shooting, nothing), and seems that everyone else has trust issues. If we can restrain ourselves from shooting at someone with a valid warranty, we can certainly do the same for conquerable stations. FAMY takes its integrity very seriously, and you know that. We have kicked players out of FAMY without a second thought for refusing to abide by rules.
It's true that most vets are playing favoritism with the carebear alliance. Personally I don't have a problem with that, as I enjoy the challenge of playing against the odds. However, Greenwall, if you want to whine about the lack of action, how about encouraging your vet friends to move themselves around and join the other team? Isn't that how an arena-style game works, the autobalancing? No structure? You can still even the odds by stop playing as TGFT/Itan/PA sooo much.
By our nature? THC perhaps, but FAMY has repeatedly offered to make some sort of deal/compromise such as marking the conquerable station areas pirate-free (no warranty selling, no shooting, nothing), and seems that everyone else has trust issues. If we can restrain ourselves from shooting at someone with a valid warranty, we can certainly do the same for conquerable stations. FAMY takes its integrity very seriously, and you know that. We have kicked players out of FAMY without a second thought for refusing to abide by rules.
It's true that most vets are playing favoritism with the carebear alliance. Personally I don't have a problem with that, as I enjoy the challenge of playing against the odds. However, Greenwall, if you want to whine about the lack of action, how about encouraging your vet friends to move themselves around and join the other team? Isn't that how an arena-style game works, the autobalancing? No structure? You can still even the odds by stop playing as TGFT/Itan/PA sooo much.
Unfortunately, even the new serco guilds are going to be held back by the politics of RED/ONE. For example, a new serco guild would most likely want to allign themselves with other serco nationalist guilds. BUT... as long as RED?ONE are at war with TGFT, any shared key with TGFT isn't worth much, if anything, if RED/ONE are on it because we'll get shot at.
Joylessjoker, even if famy made i8 or c12 pirate free zones, you cant do much building without traveling to and from i8 or c12 into uit. FAMY will see us at the stations and snag us going to and from uit space. It wouldn't be hard for yt to figure out where I'm going in my moth if he sees your spot from the conq station we are both using.
Joylessjoker, even if famy made i8 or c12 pirate free zones, you cant do much building without traveling to and from i8 or c12 into uit. FAMY will see us at the stations and snag us going to and from uit space. It wouldn't be hard for yt to figure out where I'm going in my moth if he sees your spot from the conq station we are both using.
biretak, your concern seems to be that we'd have an advantage in surveillance.
First of all, if we really wanted to know where you are, it's not hard to set up a surveillance network by making alts and joining TGFT with them. I'm not going to say whether if we definitely already have it in place. Nothing to do with station keys.
Secondly, it's already a common practice for pirates to patrol the UIT-grayspace wormholes. The location of conquerable stations is not a secret. We know all of the common routes. Even if we didn't know you were there in I-8 and going to UIT, we'd spot and pirate you anyway in Latos H-2. Station keys have nothing to do with this.
Thirdly, the point of such an arrangement is to avoid the hassle of capturing the station back and forth over and over, wasting everyone's money and time. Maybe the likes of Greenwall wants more of fun battles, but I suspect you TGFTers would benefit more from this. You don't fuck around with your bottom line profit, right?
It's either this, or we use our surveillance alts already in your guilds to build capship parts and drop them for our FAMY characters.
First of all, if we really wanted to know where you are, it's not hard to set up a surveillance network by making alts and joining TGFT with them. I'm not going to say whether if we definitely already have it in place. Nothing to do with station keys.
Secondly, it's already a common practice for pirates to patrol the UIT-grayspace wormholes. The location of conquerable stations is not a secret. We know all of the common routes. Even if we didn't know you were there in I-8 and going to UIT, we'd spot and pirate you anyway in Latos H-2. Station keys have nothing to do with this.
Thirdly, the point of such an arrangement is to avoid the hassle of capturing the station back and forth over and over, wasting everyone's money and time. Maybe the likes of Greenwall wants more of fun battles, but I suspect you TGFTers would benefit more from this. You don't fuck around with your bottom line profit, right?
It's either this, or we use our surveillance alts already in your guilds to build capship parts and drop them for our FAMY characters.
@joylessjoker from guild softwares rules of conduct....
4. You may not defraud other players.
Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense. Examples of this activity include, but are not limited to, using deception to deprive another player of items
Not that this would ever be enforced, but putting spies ("surveillance alts") in a guild just because they wont let you keep a conquerable station is bad form and very lame. Learn to defend it.
4. You may not defraud other players.
Fraud is defined as falsely representing one's intentions to make a gain at another's expense. Examples of this activity include, but are not limited to, using deception to deprive another player of items
Not that this would ever be enforced, but putting spies ("surveillance alts") in a guild just because they wont let you keep a conquerable station is bad form and very lame. Learn to defend it.
I'm sure no TGFT have ever made a secret alt to put into FAMY to see where all of the pirates are and give themselves free warranties, either. Let's not practice double standards, my dear. As TRS pointed out before, espionage is very much part of the game.
If you agree to share your station keys, then we would have one less reason to do it. Again, it seems that it's the only option left, so you cannot really blame us for doing it. What else do you expect me to do? Give up my pirating ways? Lots of people would strongly object to that, as they want more ACTION! They need targets such as me to shoot at.
"Learn to defend a station" - the problem is that too many vets are playing on the TGFT/Itan/PA alliance side at the moment. All of the new players are f2p mobile users - incapable of helping to attack/defend a station. That's the problem. "Oh too bad, you shouldn't have joined the evil team!" Oh okay, so you want VO to become a peaceful utopia. Is that what you seriously want?
If you agree to share your station keys, then we would have one less reason to do it. Again, it seems that it's the only option left, so you cannot really blame us for doing it. What else do you expect me to do? Give up my pirating ways? Lots of people would strongly object to that, as they want more ACTION! They need targets such as me to shoot at.
"Learn to defend a station" - the problem is that too many vets are playing on the TGFT/Itan/PA alliance side at the moment. All of the new players are f2p mobile users - incapable of helping to attack/defend a station. That's the problem. "Oh too bad, you shouldn't have joined the evil team!" Oh okay, so you want VO to become a peaceful utopia. Is that what you seriously want?
@joylessjoker TGFT players are required to alt separate. It's part of our guilds policies. I think if someone violates our guilds policies they should get kicked from the guild.
I can't tell if you're vehemently denying indulging in the practice or really that naive. I'm not naming names, but I have personally seen it.
Anyway, alt surveillance/separation is not really the point here. To recap, sharing station keys and reaching some kind of agreement that is satisfactory for all parties involved seems like a reasonable way to improve the imbalanced situation at the moment. Think of the big picture. We want everyone to have more fun overall.
Anyway, alt surveillance/separation is not really the point here. To recap, sharing station keys and reaching some kind of agreement that is satisfactory for all parties involved seems like a reasonable way to improve the imbalanced situation at the moment. Think of the big picture. We want everyone to have more fun overall.
It's either this, or we use our surveillance alts already in your guilds to build capship parts and drop them for our FAMY characters.
I assumed this was the norm?
And failure, it's a really tough sell for people involved in trading to trust people involved in piracy. It just is. The amount of effort and time it takes to make some of these capship parts causes people to desire extra layers of protection whereever possible. I didn't say pirates would be shut out ALL the time, I just said a majority.
Greenwall you're making the most circular fucking arguments you can here. I said new Serco leaders need status and to be established, for that yes they need a trident.
How am I making circular arguments? The problem does not lie in the falsehood that serco has the short end of the stick in the game as designed by Guild Software... the problem lies in the people who represent the serco nation. THOSE people already have tridents, and they have a history that people could get behind, but they choose to spray their bile in everyone's face instead of bettering their position. You are suggesting that the game be unbalanced and carebearified in support of nurturing a new serco population, which is simply a dumb idea that will do nothing to address the core problem.
How is moving tridents away from conq stations NOT a carebear move? It's too tough for serco to build right now, so you want to make it easier for them and carry less risk. I.e. carebearism.
For some still unexplained reason, you think that serco should be rewarded for being shitheads to the majority of other players in game. It's just not how things work. There are plenty of ITAN members who in many ways look at your extremism with some envy, but even they don't let themselves commit fully to it because they know it would ultimately make the game less fun.
Now, regarding the separate issue of making tridents, since it is not directly tied to serco player retention: If you want to make a trident in any reasonable amount of time you need to not be anti-TGFT. Bottom line. You cannot go against them and expect it to be easy. They are a giant magnet that attracts the most successful trident builders and keeps them active. So, that sucks for pirates, but it doesn't HAVE to suck for nationalists. Someday ONE and SKY and maybe even RED, if resuscitated, would realize that.
I assumed this was the norm?
And failure, it's a really tough sell for people involved in trading to trust people involved in piracy. It just is. The amount of effort and time it takes to make some of these capship parts causes people to desire extra layers of protection whereever possible. I didn't say pirates would be shut out ALL the time, I just said a majority.
Greenwall you're making the most circular fucking arguments you can here. I said new Serco leaders need status and to be established, for that yes they need a trident.
How am I making circular arguments? The problem does not lie in the falsehood that serco has the short end of the stick in the game as designed by Guild Software... the problem lies in the people who represent the serco nation. THOSE people already have tridents, and they have a history that people could get behind, but they choose to spray their bile in everyone's face instead of bettering their position. You are suggesting that the game be unbalanced and carebearified in support of nurturing a new serco population, which is simply a dumb idea that will do nothing to address the core problem.
How is moving tridents away from conq stations NOT a carebear move? It's too tough for serco to build right now, so you want to make it easier for them and carry less risk. I.e. carebearism.
For some still unexplained reason, you think that serco should be rewarded for being shitheads to the majority of other players in game. It's just not how things work. There are plenty of ITAN members who in many ways look at your extremism with some envy, but even they don't let themselves commit fully to it because they know it would ultimately make the game less fun.
Now, regarding the separate issue of making tridents, since it is not directly tied to serco player retention: If you want to make a trident in any reasonable amount of time you need to not be anti-TGFT. Bottom line. You cannot go against them and expect it to be easy. They are a giant magnet that attracts the most successful trident builders and keeps them active. So, that sucks for pirates, but it doesn't HAVE to suck for nationalists. Someday ONE and SKY and maybe even RED, if resuscitated, would realize that.
And failure, it's a really tough sell for people involved in trading to trust people involved in piracy. It just is. The amount of effort and time it takes to make some of these capship parts causes people to desire extra layers of protection whereever possible.
Hasn't FAMY proven to be a man of its word? Most TGFTers can get behind that. Even though they may not buy a warranty out of pride or because they don't need to (already have a trident), they know that if they buy a warranty, they will not be shot at. If they do get shot at, they will be recompensated for all damages and the offending FAMY member will be kicked out of the guild.
That said, it seems to me that TGFT already has plenty of protection layers. They have countless tridents which can transport capship parts safely from one pirate-free zone to another pirate-free zone.
It's not true that I, as a pirate, cannot do business with any traders. I have bought capship parts from certain TGFT/Itan members simply because it's more convenient this way. Waiting for one of them to come out in a XC with a computer is counting on dumb luck.
Hasn't FAMY proven to be a man of its word? Most TGFTers can get behind that. Even though they may not buy a warranty out of pride or because they don't need to (already have a trident), they know that if they buy a warranty, they will not be shot at. If they do get shot at, they will be recompensated for all damages and the offending FAMY member will be kicked out of the guild.
That said, it seems to me that TGFT already has plenty of protection layers. They have countless tridents which can transport capship parts safely from one pirate-free zone to another pirate-free zone.
It's not true that I, as a pirate, cannot do business with any traders. I have bought capship parts from certain TGFT/Itan members simply because it's more convenient this way. Waiting for one of them to come out in a XC with a computer is counting on dumb luck.
1) FAMY has committed repeated violations of trust.
2) They are pirates.
I can't speak for TGFT specifically, but those two items right there are presumably enough to make the hole deep enough that FAMY can't climb out of it.
2) They are pirates.
I can't speak for TGFT specifically, but those two items right there are presumably enough to make the hole deep enough that FAMY can't climb out of it.
There you go, bringing out that "I have a grudge against FAMY" thing again. That does not accomplish anything good, my good-doer friend.
Getting back to the OP, what I would like the logo to do is to be colorized based on the faction of the last character you played (or current character, when in-game). When the last character is unknown (fresh install, new account) then it should be random.
Alternately, instead of basing it on the characters themselves, base the color on the faction owning the character's current location/destination. Including minor factions, when jumping into their sectors. So jumping into an Ineubis station, it would be dark red; jumping to XX it would be green; jumping to Corvus it would be black. Etc.
Alternately, instead of basing it on the characters themselves, base the color on the faction owning the character's current location/destination. Including minor factions, when jumping into their sectors. So jumping into an Ineubis station, it would be dark red; jumping to XX it would be green; jumping to Corvus it would be black. Etc.
Conquerable stations and Tridents manufacturing seems to be a common theme in a lot of posts in this thread.
The main problems, as i see it, is that you have to control all 3 stations in order to be able to build all the required Trident parts and the strongest guilds who always have the upper hand in controlling all of the stations.
How about we make a change here, remove Nyrius F6 from equation completely and make all Trident parts manufacturable at every conquerable station.
Move Bractsus M14 station to Ukari, move Latos M7 shipyard to Odia and leave Latos I-8 and Pelatus C-12 where they are.
Ukari station could be in the Serco zone of influence and easier to capture and control by Serco, Latos station could fall under UIT zone of influence and Pelatus - Itani.
Make station capturable by nations, and make them nation aligned after capture.
For instance, UIT players capture Latos I-8 and all UIT chars with admire standing have automatic access to it. Station becomes UIT guarded just as any other UIT station. Same goes for Serco and Itani captured stations.
Making all of the Trident parts manufacturable in all stations would render the need to hold all stations obsolete and since stations would, after capture, become nation aligned and protected - even pirates with admire standing could build Trident parts there.
This, of course, opens another can of worms with pirates having surveillance of who comes in and out of the station and setting ambushes and traps for builders transporting parts to Capship Shipyard.
Not that they were unable to do it so far by camping choke points - only exception was Latos i-8 where builders could jump directly to M7.
New situation, new rules, maybe it could work into a completely new gameplay.
The main problems, as i see it, is that you have to control all 3 stations in order to be able to build all the required Trident parts and the strongest guilds who always have the upper hand in controlling all of the stations.
How about we make a change here, remove Nyrius F6 from equation completely and make all Trident parts manufacturable at every conquerable station.
Move Bractsus M14 station to Ukari, move Latos M7 shipyard to Odia and leave Latos I-8 and Pelatus C-12 where they are.
Ukari station could be in the Serco zone of influence and easier to capture and control by Serco, Latos station could fall under UIT zone of influence and Pelatus - Itani.
Make station capturable by nations, and make them nation aligned after capture.
For instance, UIT players capture Latos I-8 and all UIT chars with admire standing have automatic access to it. Station becomes UIT guarded just as any other UIT station. Same goes for Serco and Itani captured stations.
Making all of the Trident parts manufacturable in all stations would render the need to hold all stations obsolete and since stations would, after capture, become nation aligned and protected - even pirates with admire standing could build Trident parts there.
This, of course, opens another can of worms with pirates having surveillance of who comes in and out of the station and setting ambushes and traps for builders transporting parts to Capship Shipyard.
Not that they were unable to do it so far by camping choke points - only exception was Latos i-8 where builders could jump directly to M7.
New situation, new rules, maybe it could work into a completely new gameplay.
@bojansplash post your suggestion in it's own thread. This thread has enough off topic posts already
An interesting idea Bojan... making them nation-aligned would tip the balance a hell of a lot towards nationalist guilds though, *especially serco and Itani since they have superior combat ships*. Which, I guess, is what some people want (i.e. to fracture multination guilds, specifically TGFT), but I'm not convinced that's a good thing. It would be a huge change from the current system that's in place....
As bireta said , better to move my idea to a separate thread here: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/29725#356153