I'd like to start a thread to discuss the possibility of adding IAPs ( In app purchases ) to the game. In several other unrelated threads this has been lightly touched upon but I'd like to see if this is a consideration for VO. It appears the foundation has already been laid by making the transition to go mobile and with the secondary currency system of crystals. In many threads I have read about the need for $$ that could be used to hire another programmer or to bring about future game developments. I have seen kick starter projects, player donations, etc.. and from what I have seen none of that has been sustainable. From my perspective VO is in a unique position at the moment to introduce IAPs with the influx of android mobile players and IOS in the near future.
Do IAPs really make any $$? Yes they do, here are a few examples of what some mobile games bring in on a daily basis from IAPs (DAILY BASIS): clash of clans $984,646/ candy crush $778,834/ game of warfare $504,005/ farm heroes $132,607.......there are more examples than I care to type. I don't believe VO will bring in those numbers in the near future but once IAPs are introduced it could cause a snowball effect through additional development, advertising, branching into the IOS market and such. The interesting thing with IAPs is the majority of customers tend to purchase three general categories of items; the first is additional content, the second is customization of characters, and the third is items that save the player time. All three of these big sellers could be implemented in VO. One odd comparison between the PC crowd and the mobile is that PC/Mac users tend to like up front one time payments, while mobile users are extremely reluctant to purchase anything up front, but statistically speaking they are more than willing to purchase IAPs on a game they favor.
VO by its very nature seems to be in a constant state of change and improvement so the majority of players would more than likely embrace the addition of IAPs once they buy into the concept of "this is necessary for the survival of my favorite game", on the other hand you will always have the vocal minority who fear change or feel threatened in some way. In order appease these two opposing groups one must ask: why are players here/what do players value/and what are players paying for? Then tailor what is sold as IAPs to not hinder, give any distinct advantage, or remove any part of favored gameplay. One nice thing about the VO community is they seem to be very involved and take a form of ownership in this game, so if and when IAPs come about involving the community by seeking ideas and suggestions, holding a contest, etc to see what VO players would potentially pay for in the form of IAPs would make the transition go much smoother.

I have two things to say to this:

1. TL;DR, no structure, and bad grammar. A writing course in a nearby community college would be beneficial for you.

2. You already made this suggestion very recently. http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/29633. According to Albert Einstein, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. Fact: Nobody likes IAPs, get over with it and move on.

joylessjoker:

1)if you didn't read his post, how do you know he made this same suggestion very recently? You did read it.

2) You come across as a dick by criticizing Borg's writing skills. It may not be his strong suit, but there are clearly good intentions and good ideas in there.

The IAP idea is a controversial one from the player base perspective. As mentioned in the other thread: on one hand VO has been vehemently anti pay-to-win -- but on the other has clearly suffered financially as a result. I think the biggest question is what does pay to win really mean in VO?

Who is harmed by someone paying money to skip the grind?

I think pretty much everyone would be in agreement that giving an option to pay for a combat advantage over vets is out of the question (i.e. some kind of elite addon or ship that offers improved agility or aim that you have to pay extra for). So, other than that, who cares? I would really be interested to see what % of newbs who quit because the grind sucked too much (for ships and weapons) would have stayed around and thrown money at GS to see if the game was more fun with better ships and weapons (WHICH IT IS).

Joyless joker,who exactly are you referring too when you say nobody likes in app purchases (other than yourself of course)? Because IAPs are the leading source of revinue for mobile games with advertisements coming in at a close second. So obviously people are buying them and game developers are reaping the rewards of their efforts. Could you give some specific examples about IAPs that you dislike, or more specifically why you feel it would not be beneficial to the future success of VO? If the game ever has IAPs it needs to know what the players dislike about them and how to address those dislikes so that the IAPs that are offered are welcomed by the majority of players and not just shunned by those that are resistant to change the status quo.

Borg, I think it is a pretty safe assumption (one you even touch on) that "PC players in general" don't like IAP.

Also I would correct your notion that VO is in "transition" to mobile-- it's more of an auxiliary/parallel development.

All that said, I think you are very right that IAP's are hugely effective modes of monetization (although it's really only two categories; 'character customization' is a subset of the other two), and that "most" (very very loose use of the word there) "gamers" (again) are becoming accepting, or at least tolerant, of IAPs. I can testify to the devs first-hand just how hugely successful a baseline IAP implementation can be... let alone a well designed one :)

I think more IAPs wouldn't be such a bad thing. I know they are scary to traditional gamers, but if implemented the right way* they shouldn't be too disruptive while also adding a very, very healthy source of revenue. And again I can testify first hand as to how non-casual multiplayer games can and have implemented IAP in a fair and responsible manner.

So overall, +1

But I think it's important to keep in mind that mobile players are inherently at a disadvantage to PC players. On the one hand, this is a benefit of IAP; if anyone wants to drop a little cash they could bridge the gap a little bit.... but on the other hand, even if someone spent $10 on a really cool combat ship (or whatever), they're probably still gonna get whipped by a PC player in a Vult 1. That could lead to some very unhappy customers, and possibly even the demanding of refunds (of which 100% comes from the developer's pockets-- yes, even though only 70% went in at the time of transaction. It's kind of bullshit, but a-mobile-company-who-will-not-be-named started this practice years ago and no one seems to care enough about developers to get it fixed)

*How to do IAP Responsibly:
1. Only offering things players can get with a little time/hard-work
1-exception. Purely cosmetic items can be ok as IAP only, but in a case like this of adding mobile/IAP onto such an established PC experience... might not be a good idea
2. Keep the time-and-work requirements to get something without money reasonable. VO doesn't really have this problem since it was balanced around doing things with elbow grease in the first place
3. BE UN-INTRUSIVE!!!

And I guess since no one has mentioned specifics I'll throw out a few ideas;

'Time-savers'

1. Experience/license packs; Pay $0.99 for X experience in one of your licenses (or maybe just a full license upgrade? That doesn't scale... but that could be for the better or the worse)

2. Faction points

3. 'Black market coupon'-- something you can redeem for 1 item you can view in a station but wouldn't otherwise be able to buy

4. Queen locator; use this to automatically be told the nearest queen's location

..ok 3&4 are kinda bad ideas, but I'm just going for quantity; I think 1&2 are where the money would be

'Additional Content'

This sounds like an inherently a tricky category because anything that IAP-only could buy (ie; special Vult variant) would break rule 1 and annoy PC users. But there are a few tricks to get around this;

5. Faction OR License-XP doubler: Don't want to mess with credit doublers since the VO economy is already so out of whack, but doublers are one of the most proven forms of non-consumable IAP. Even if they just worked for a short time (probably somewhere between 30-60 mins) I think a lot of mobile users would be interested in these. They are useful in addition to (1) & (2) because doublers are technically Additional Content You Could Never Earn By Playing AND a Time-Saver and there are some IAP spenders who only care about this kind of content, while others prefer the raw quantity (IE, 0.99 for 1 license level). Basically it covers all your bases and ensures that if someone is capable/willing to spend money, they will do so

6. Additional Character Slots-- hang on PC users, I can already hear your outcry. This idea would only be if mobile by default gave the user less characters (is this the case now? I don't remember)-- either way, it seems fair to me that a mobile user paying $0.99 for their month would only get 3 char slots to start with, and then for 0.99 they could get the full 6. BOOM, Additional Content IAP, and without alienating PCs. How about that!!?

7. Anniversary Vult Skin / EC-88 model Bus: These could annoy vets, I'd be eager to hear what you guys think. Personally I'd rather whore these items out to get the devs a few extra bucks :D

Anyway that's just off the top of my head, but the bottom line is the game really should be making good use of the IAP market.

(Also, can someone give a brief overview of how Crystal works? "Second-currency" is always a good way to disguise IAP/spending, so it may be the case that the devs have implemented these or other IAP-ideas under the guise of crystal and I didn't realize!)

Basically, some items that we normally buy with credits alone, F2Pers have to also pay crystal for in addition to the credit cost. The crystal can be earned in-game via grind, or bought with real money. My understanding is that currently, the mechanics for earning crystal in-game sort of dry up the longer you play, so that it becomes very tedious after a while -- but the devs like pointing out how the whole system is in flux, so that will hopefully change.

Anyway, the current way crystal works is that it does not allow F2Pers to bypass anything subscribers have to do. And that is how it should remain. People should not be permitted to use external resources to bypass actually playing the game.

I was gonna say that making the IAP be for in game currency (like crystal) is the way to go. It masks the realworld costs just like a credit card, resulting in more spending! yay!

People should not be permitted to use external resources to bypass actually playing the game.

This is a very general statement of course, but I would actually argue that, at this point in the history of GS/VO, letting people bypass grind in exchange for $$ is worth it. Not only should GS be finally rewarded for their many years of slaving over this game, but also it would supposedly open up more development resources.

Definitely agree with greenwall (and not Pizzas-- very weird) here

Does it really affect your gameplay if a noob drops $20 to skip the grinding? You're not gonna have any problem toasting their Prom/Valk/whatever, the devs get a little extra cash, and it's +1 player who spends more time enjoying the game and less time grinding.

The only negative emotions I can see coming out of this are from;

(A) Gamers who don't like Pay-to-speed-up-gameplay as a concept

(B) PC players who are ticked that they don't have the option to skip grinding

(edit; C) Mobile gamers who just dropped $20, got toasted by Pizzas, and are pissed and want a refund

Pizzas it sounds more like you're in Group A, and while I can understand your frustration.. this is just a part of gaming now, and a very profitable part. I would guarantee that I'm simplifying your position, so please don't hesitate to outline exactly what part of allowing F2P to bypass grinding is so problematic

As for Group B, that is tricky and I don't really have a good answer. One possibility would be to make all IAP-items purchased with Crystal, not $$ (and Crystal can only be purchased by mobile users, probably not grindable). Then allow PC players to spend our oodles of credits on Crystal (allowing us to get in on the fun without spending real $), and all is well in the world

Also greenwall, pay-for-credits is obviously a possibility, but generally the more transparent an IAP looks the less effective it is. Also since credits are so easy to earn, it would be kind of tough to value this correctly without allowing a moderate purchase to hugely (further) inflate the economy

I meant pay for Crystal, not the normal VO credits.

The pay to win games I've played have been incredibly frustrating because their model requires that ultimately the only option to win or succeed IS to pay. There is a consistent set of leaders who maintain their advantage over everyone else because they continue to pay for that "right". This is what nobody wants to happen to VO.

What we want is an express lane to the good content, not an express lane to combat skills and any elite content that might further enhance combat ability or some other gameplay-affecting content not available to normal subscribers.

Oh makes sense.

But I don't think comparing this with Pay-to-win games makes any sense, at all. A P2W game is just that because it is designed that way; Farmville etc are BUILT to encourage IAP, and therefore it makes sense that more IAP = more game success. Honestly these types of apps shouldn't technically be considered games, although they are built on game mechanics.

But in any true game (the kind us traditional gamers love & don't want spoiled by IAP) skill generally plays the biggest part. And that is ESPECIALLY true in a slower paced FPS like VO. There is nothing a noob could buy (short of a Trident I suppose) that would prevent me from killing them, in just about any ship I want.

Look at it this way. Would you accept people paying off the devs in order to get out of having to participate in unconsentual PVP? If not, why is it acceptable for them to pay off the devs to get out of having to mine or trade? How is that any different?

This is a multiplayer game. Paying to skip to the end means you skip all the interactions along the way. You don't have to deal with pirates while you grind up your mining license. You don't get other players to help you work on your trade license. You don't team up with your buddies to go do skirmishes while leveling up your combat and weapon licenses. And so all those people you aren't interacting with miss out.

"while I can understand your frustration.. this is just a part of gaming now, and a very profitable part."

Prostitution is a very profitable part of the world, and has been for ages. That doesn't mean I want anything to do with it. I want to play games, not have shopping experiences. I don't care if the gaming industry thinks otherwise; they're idiots. And does it look like I'm playing their bullshit? No. I'm over here hoping Incarnate can keep his integrity and avoid participating in the gang-rape of the players that is going on out there.

+1 for prostitutes

lol, pizza. Your "hoping Incarnate can keep his integrity and avoid participating in gang-rape" Really? I'm hoping he will have the necessary funding to implement many of the goals he and his team have been dreaming about for years. Read some of his postings, the devs are ambitious and would like to offer all of us some amazing content but due to reality their hands are tied due to limited funds. You mentioned this is a multiplayer game, yeah so what? Many mmos offer solo classes. Not every player needs to be coddled along the way with group support hugs. Many are independent players who enjoy just the pve aspects alone. If thats how they want to play they can. As a gamer myself I generally hate pvp and all of the adolescent immaturity typically associated with it, so when I found this game I was more than skeptical, especially after reading all of the childish and indecent commentary on channel 100. But, as it turns out I really enjoy the pve side of this game, its the only reason I bought a premium sub. I enjoy the sic-fi theme, mining, trading, fighting bots, the ability to manufacture,etc.. . Just because someone doesn't play like you doesn't make it wrong. The huge mix mash of play styles and personalities is one of the draws of this game.
If I only had 30 min to play and wanted x amount of whatever and I had an extra $5 to spend to get whatever I wanted quickly through an IAP. Who cares? I just dropped $5 to further advance the development and enjoyment of your game. Everyone wins.

It's not a zero sum game Pizza. Most players who would spend cash to skip the grind of trading/mining wouldn't play without this option. To them, they would rather pay $5 to just play a game than spend $0+Lots-of-time to get to the same point. These kinds of players don't really have the patience for a grind.

Anyone who actually wants to play the gameplay would do so, because if you derive, like, ANY enjoyment from a mining/trading space-sim... that's how you'll level up.

Anyone who would be turned off by the grind but has some cash now gets the option to play, & will fill up our universe in the (not-so-)endgame mode that most of us enjoy.

And for the small overlap, anyone who loves space-sim gameplay, AND has some extra money lying around AND wants to skip grinding... that's cool too. Sure these players will be 'depriving' us of their lowlevel mining/trading, but they're not gonna spend cash and then disappear. They'll still be playing, and trading or mining if that's their thing. Adding more to the PvP landscape if not. FURTHERMORE, the devs get some extra cash. I really don't see how this isn't great for everyone*...

Also, how the heck do you "pay to skip to the end" (your words) of an MMO? The "end" is what 90% of the playerbase occupies and desperately wants more people to play with. These people are paying to be able to get most of the tools to participate in the endgame with us.

Finally, humans tend to stick with something they've put actual cash into. Someone who invests their hard earned money is going to be WAY more committed to playing the game more than someone who spends hours grinding through the most boring parts. Again, win for the player, win for the rest of us, win for the devs.

*EXCEPT for the kind of pirates who prey on noobs that are just trying to get through the grind. (And, fuck those guys, cause they're making the hardest part of the game even harder for people on the fence about playing more!)

Let me reiterate this in case you missed it the first time: I want a game, not a shopping experience. If the game is causing me to think about paying for shit while I play it, then it has failed. If you want to go shopping, go to Amazon and go shopping. I am here to play a game.

I don't know why you people find this so hard to comprehend. I just want to pay the fucking sub and have that be the end of it. If people want to be able to opt out of purchasing various bits of equipment in exchange for a cheaper cost of playing, that's fine with me. If they want a more complex system where they opt out of a bunch of it and then pay to re-enable smaller parts, also fine. But there must be a way to just pay a simple flat rate and then play the full damn game, with no silly people spending money to do additional weird shit, i.e., cheating.

So you want XP multipliers? Fine. People who don't sub can have their XP multiplied by 0.5, and then optionally pay to multiply that by 2.0, bringing it back up to a 1:1 ratio with what subscribers have.

I don't agree with everything pizza said, but he does bring up a relevant issue that will need to be well thought out before IAPs are ever introduced. Can people just buy the sub and have an enjoyable playing experience without feeling pressured to purchase an IAP? Whatever IAPs are offered must be entirely optional without a majority of players feeling like it is something crucial to gameplay for it to be successful. I think too many freemium game companies have ruined the IAP experience and so a lot of players will be very wary about it being here. But unlike those other games, we have a dev team that cares about the game and it's players first and foremost. I have every confidence that if and when IAPs come about that it will be tastefully done with the players in mind.

Exactly, Borg. Hence the 3 rules of IAP. It doesn't sound like Pizza is talking about unitrusive IAP, it kinda sounds like he's talking about Farmville style IAP.

Or, Pizzas, are you saying that merely the presence of alternate payment methods is enough to "ruin the game"? Even if the PC sub model remained unchanged... and all of the balance of the game remained unchanged (that is, designed for the 'authentic'/PC/played experience)... just the idea that some people are paying for something you don't approve of is utterly offensive and ruins your ability to "play a game"?

Cause that seems weirdly selfish and childish. "NO! EVERYBODY HAS TO PAY AND PLAY THE WAY I DO!!"

I'm not in any way advocating the devs introduce IAP for PC players (unless it turns out a lot of subbed-players WANT to spend extra to skip gameplay... which, if there is a market for it, they should be able to). In no way should IAP be in the face of PC players (or mobile players, for that matter). In no way should the presence of IAP mean the devs can slack off on delivering a real, engaging non-IAP play experience.

But since there are people would spend this money on mobile, and plenty of people who would ONLY PLAY if they can spend this money, AND because the presence of IAP does not inherently mean any change whatsoever to the PC experience... your argument does not work.

To have a valid point you'll have to explain why an unobtrusive (possibly even un-detectable from the PC side) IAP system that does not change gameplay for PC users in any way would turn VO into Amazon.

(And please don't say "it takes away from the amount of play experiences the rest of us have," because if so you just need to re-read my too-long but very-comprehensive dismantling of that notion)

I am totally fine with unobtrusive IAP as long as it doesn't permit cheating.

Buying stuff without meeting the requirements is cheating. Buying levels or standing is also cheating.

I have no desire to play with cheaters. If that makes me selfish and childish, then so be it.