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I bought an xc load of aap's from someone for a mil a couple weeks ago... I didn't use an alt because I have no time to create a uit alt nor do I want to as it would break my rp.
Cellsafe, it takes a several days to create an account that can buy a prom or valk and is actually a lot of work. I'm sure someone would make an alt just to stockpile ships, but it's a LOT of work so the majority won't. Also, some vets already have stockpiles of faction ships (looks at Mr rzzzt) so why not level the playing field by giving everyone the opportunity to use them given enough work instead of a select few?
Cellsafe, it takes a several days to create an account that can buy a prom or valk and is actually a lot of work. I'm sure someone would make an alt just to stockpile ships, but it's a LOT of work so the majority won't. Also, some vets already have stockpiles of faction ships (looks at Mr rzzzt) so why not level the playing field by giving everyone the opportunity to use them given enough work instead of a select few?
+1 to this idea.
I do not think that anyone could amass large amounts of ships. It will always be minor amounts because the moving of a single Valk down to grey space where it will be mostly useful takes 15 minutes+the transaction will take another 5. 20 minutes for one Valk. you can trade 3 Valks in 1 hour. Nobody will want to go through that every day to eventually have 50 Valks sitting around.
My proposal to make alt ship tossing impossible:
It's very easy and we have to listen to the voices who argue against it. It will of course take about as long as buying it from somebody else but you can do this for free and when you like.
So the simple solution: Once you log out, any ship that you dropped will simply disappear from space.
Easy, eh?
I do not think that anyone could amass large amounts of ships. It will always be minor amounts because the moving of a single Valk down to grey space where it will be mostly useful takes 15 minutes+the transaction will take another 5. 20 minutes for one Valk. you can trade 3 Valks in 1 hour. Nobody will want to go through that every day to eventually have 50 Valks sitting around.
My proposal to make alt ship tossing impossible:
It's very easy and we have to listen to the voices who argue against it. It will of course take about as long as buying it from somebody else but you can do this for free and when you like.
So the simple solution: Once you log out, any ship that you dropped will simply disappear from space.
Easy, eh?
I like that solution.
Actually, that solution nearly works but has an unacceptable flaw. If I killed somebody who was hauling a ship, and they wanted to be an ass, they could just log out to deny anybody else the chance to steal the ship they were hauling.
Here's a better idea: Record which account dropped the ship and don't permit other characters on that account to pick it up until it has been picked up and dropped by a third party. It solves cellsafemode's complaints without hampering any legitimate playstyles.
As for Death Fluffy, I didn't realize Proms were that large. So yeah, +1 to adjusting them to fit into an XC.
Here's a better idea: Record which account dropped the ship and don't permit other characters on that account to pick it up until it has been picked up and dropped by a third party. It solves cellsafemode's complaints without hampering any legitimate playstyles.
As for Death Fluffy, I didn't realize Proms were that large. So yeah, +1 to adjusting them to fit into an XC.
Making ships dissappear doesn't address people with alts on seperate accounts, only the ones using the same account.
On the other hand, even using a trident, the number of ships moved by a player would be around 6-12 an hour. 12 would be pushing it with the assumption of 2 round trips costing 1/2 hr each.
On the other hand, even using a trident, the number of ships moved by a player would be around 6-12 an hour. 12 would be pushing it with the assumption of 2 round trips costing 1/2 hr each.
Pizzasgood - Technically you are right. But my solution aims for simple and quick implemention. Which Comes at cost. I'm all for the devs doing it in a 3 step mode:
1: Fix the bug and make dropped ships working
2: Make the Proms and any other oversized ship 200cu
3: Implement the disappearing on log off for ship cargo crates
After that has happened we can think about the flaws of it and do as you said. But really, it would make players busy and happy so the devs get some working times without frowny vets who want new content.
Death Fluffy -If somebody really wasnts to pay 20 bucks instead of 10 a month just so he can drop ships to himself with will save only litle time than let them do it... It helps VO more than them.
1: Fix the bug and make dropped ships working
2: Make the Proms and any other oversized ship 200cu
3: Implement the disappearing on log off for ship cargo crates
After that has happened we can think about the flaws of it and do as you said. But really, it would make players busy and happy so the devs get some working times without frowny vets who want new content.
Death Fluffy -If somebody really wasnts to pay 20 bucks instead of 10 a month just so he can drop ships to himself with will save only litle time than let them do it... It helps VO more than them.
Vets will always want new content.
Correction:
vets always want new content that will directly benefit them. And they like to spin it in a way that makes it seem like it wont benefit them the most even when it is painfully obvious that it will.
A solution to this request that makes it impossible for players to trade to themselves or pseudo-npcs like player created bots is necessary. Because no matter how much anyone is pretending like it's so much easier to do it one way, you can't underestimate the amount of time certain vets will spend doing something the "easier and solo" way if given the choice.
The easiest way to make ship trading possible is by making ship politing directly conditional to standing. You can trade somone any ship you want. But they can only launch in it if they have the necessary credentials to purchase it themselves in the first place.
End of story. done. No faction circumvention, no issues of being unfair or gaming the system. And you still have a niche where this is advantgeous and wanted since just because you can get a ship doesn't mean it's necesasrily available where you want it ....and maybe some players are willing to sell. etc.
vets always want new content that will directly benefit them. And they like to spin it in a way that makes it seem like it wont benefit them the most even when it is painfully obvious that it will.
A solution to this request that makes it impossible for players to trade to themselves or pseudo-npcs like player created bots is necessary. Because no matter how much anyone is pretending like it's so much easier to do it one way, you can't underestimate the amount of time certain vets will spend doing something the "easier and solo" way if given the choice.
The easiest way to make ship trading possible is by making ship politing directly conditional to standing. You can trade somone any ship you want. But they can only launch in it if they have the necessary credentials to purchase it themselves in the first place.
End of story. done. No faction circumvention, no issues of being unfair or gaming the system. And you still have a niche where this is advantgeous and wanted since just because you can get a ship doesn't mean it's necesasrily available where you want it ....and maybe some players are willing to sell. etc.
*groans*
"vets always want new content that will directly benefit them. And they like to spin it in a way that makes it seem like wont benefit them most even when it is painfully obvious that it will."
Way to make a grossly incorrect generalization, Cellsafemode, and in the process raise your middle finger to the group of people who have helped support VO and contribute to its continued existence. I honestly don't know why you are so angry about this suggestion. Why are you so bent out of shape about people not following rules in a fucking sandbox game? We are supposed to play the game how we want, not how YOU want us to play it. Jesus christ.
Restricting ship selection by faction standing is a stupid fucking idea, and only makes sense to someone who has some illogically asperger-esque obsession with some bizare set of rules that only exist in their head.
"vets always want new content that will directly benefit them. And they like to spin it in a way that makes it seem like wont benefit them most even when it is painfully obvious that it will."
Way to make a grossly incorrect generalization, Cellsafemode, and in the process raise your middle finger to the group of people who have helped support VO and contribute to its continued existence. I honestly don't know why you are so angry about this suggestion. Why are you so bent out of shape about people not following rules in a fucking sandbox game? We are supposed to play the game how we want, not how YOU want us to play it. Jesus christ.
Restricting ship selection by faction standing is a stupid fucking idea, and only makes sense to someone who has some illogically asperger-esque obsession with some bizare set of rules that only exist in their head.
I'm not quite sure if cellsafemode meant it the way he typed it. Because if he did then ship trading would be rather pointless. What benefit do I have from buying a ship that I need the standing to fly when I desire to fly it? I can just as well go to where you buy it and... buy it?
The whole point of ship trading IS buying ships you can't fly right now. Such as buying Axia Wraiths when my Axia standing is low and the likes. The fact that there will be a minor black market for nation specific ships will not ruin the game at all in my opinion. It may aswell boost PvP activity cause people want to test their newly bought ships that they paid an overprice for and gave the Trader who sold it some profit.
The whole point of ship trading IS buying ships you can't fly right now. Such as buying Axia Wraiths when my Axia standing is low and the likes. The fact that there will be a minor black market for nation specific ships will not ruin the game at all in my opinion. It may aswell boost PvP activity cause people want to test their newly bought ships that they paid an overprice for and gave the Trader who sold it some profit.
I think I should be able to pay 200k credits to a not so loyal itani so I can try out the valk if I want.
Read between the lines. Cell's gripes have little to do with what this thread is really about, and more to do with certain vets having a significant advantage over him in game because they either play more smartly than him or spent thousands more hours in the game than him.
He's just bitter and fuming that everybody in TGFT and ITAN has a dent, while nobody on the secro nationalism side has one. Solution: get off your fat ass, stop sipping on that lemonade, and build one. Yes, it's going to take a while, and it's not supposed to be easy.
Cellsafemode, no I'm not one of those vets, so you cannot pin that one on me. I don't have a dent, nor do I play more than 1 hour on the average weekday. However I know better than to complain, whine, and cry about things that I don't have - instead I work with what I have. I don't have a care in the world if certain players play too many hours. If anything I'd say they earned those dents. I just have better things to do IRL. I just got back from a long haitus. Maybe that's just what you need?
He's just bitter and fuming that everybody in TGFT and ITAN has a dent, while nobody on the secro nationalism side has one. Solution: get off your fat ass, stop sipping on that lemonade, and build one. Yes, it's going to take a while, and it's not supposed to be easy.
Cellsafemode, no I'm not one of those vets, so you cannot pin that one on me. I don't have a dent, nor do I play more than 1 hour on the average weekday. However I know better than to complain, whine, and cry about things that I don't have - instead I work with what I have. I don't have a care in the world if certain players play too many hours. If anything I'd say they earned those dents. I just have better things to do IRL. I just got back from a long haitus. Maybe that's just what you need?
Dude. Cellsafemode has a dent. Quit trying to turn this is into something it's not about.
Id like to fly valks and udvs sooo
Wait for it...... Not that it matters
+1
Id like to fly valks and udvs sooo
Wait for it...... Not that it matters
+1
I read between the lines too.
Like how it's only older players who are butthurt that they can't fly anything they want anymore trying to suggest a means to do so again to developers behind the facade of improving pvp and increasing trading while completely ignoring the issue of undermining the faction system that has been put into place that will then only effect the new players who dont have the money to circumvent it.
Maybe if the suggestion wasn't so self serving and instead benefitted new players while/or building on the faction differences and system rather than trying to neuter it, the fact that someone is a longtime player wouldn't come into the conversation.
As far as not liking the actual suggestions for how to make this suggestion actually require other human player involvement so it has at least some miniscule level of propriety i gave two. Both effective at dealing with the concerns I raised above. Both obviously hated because they effectively either A keep a player from just spending downtime trading with themselves (multiple accounts aside) or B keep players from being above the faction system.
Faction exclusive ships are treated as a differentiator (one of the only) ....a reward for reaching standing with a given faction and gives players a reason for the decision to choose that given faction. Because at the moment, there is no other differentiator that effects the decision of who to be. Until the devs change the game mechanics in some way that adds to exclusive ships something else, they have to remain what they currently are or you undermine that entire aspect of the game.
I'll go one further and add some additional suggestions... You could allow Corvus stations to sell "rebranded" but identical ships to the faction exclusive ones at a price. But since credits are almost meaningless in the game the price should be about 1mil per ship and some small hit (25pts) in home nation standing. That's less than 10 minutes worth of trading in an XC so that's still less time than transporting and trading the ship to get to b8. The standing hit is a means to limit mass purchasing and pretty much the only effective one in the game possible unless a timer is utilized and the ship buying is done via mission system vs straight purchasing. The license levels could be lower but still limited to premium accounts only.
That would give those players who really want to fly the other nation's ships the option to do so while making the cost significant enough to not eliminate the reward value of the faction exclusivity system and faction identity in general. It would also benefit pvp directly because flying around in a million dollar ship that you had to take a standing hit to buy (unless timer idea is used) is definitely going to get you the attention you want.
Like how it's only older players who are butthurt that they can't fly anything they want anymore trying to suggest a means to do so again to developers behind the facade of improving pvp and increasing trading while completely ignoring the issue of undermining the faction system that has been put into place that will then only effect the new players who dont have the money to circumvent it.
Maybe if the suggestion wasn't so self serving and instead benefitted new players while/or building on the faction differences and system rather than trying to neuter it, the fact that someone is a longtime player wouldn't come into the conversation.
As far as not liking the actual suggestions for how to make this suggestion actually require other human player involvement so it has at least some miniscule level of propriety i gave two. Both effective at dealing with the concerns I raised above. Both obviously hated because they effectively either A keep a player from just spending downtime trading with themselves (multiple accounts aside) or B keep players from being above the faction system.
Faction exclusive ships are treated as a differentiator (one of the only) ....a reward for reaching standing with a given faction and gives players a reason for the decision to choose that given faction. Because at the moment, there is no other differentiator that effects the decision of who to be. Until the devs change the game mechanics in some way that adds to exclusive ships something else, they have to remain what they currently are or you undermine that entire aspect of the game.
I'll go one further and add some additional suggestions... You could allow Corvus stations to sell "rebranded" but identical ships to the faction exclusive ones at a price. But since credits are almost meaningless in the game the price should be about 1mil per ship and some small hit (25pts) in home nation standing. That's less than 10 minutes worth of trading in an XC so that's still less time than transporting and trading the ship to get to b8. The standing hit is a means to limit mass purchasing and pretty much the only effective one in the game possible unless a timer is utilized and the ship buying is done via mission system vs straight purchasing. The license levels could be lower but still limited to premium accounts only.
That would give those players who really want to fly the other nation's ships the option to do so while making the cost significant enough to not eliminate the reward value of the faction exclusivity system and faction identity in general. It would also benefit pvp directly because flying around in a million dollar ship that you had to take a standing hit to buy (unless timer idea is used) is definitely going to get you the attention you want.
Your latest post is much better than the previous ones, cell. Finally you're making sense.
I don't think anyone would disagree that the cost of buying special ships from outside of your chosen faction needs to be significant enough to discourage overuse and abuse. Incremental permanent standing losses isn't a bad idea. Yet, I don't see how we can't figure out a way to make player trading ships work without circumventing the intended cost. It just needs to be airtight.
I don't think anyone would disagree that the cost of buying special ships from outside of your chosen faction needs to be significant enough to discourage overuse and abuse. Incremental permanent standing losses isn't a bad idea. Yet, I don't see how we can't figure out a way to make player trading ships work without circumventing the intended cost. It just needs to be airtight.
I don't think anyone would disagree that the cost of buying special ships from outside of your chosen faction needs to be significant enough to discourage overuse and abuse.
I would disagree. Whether or not it's overused and abused is irrelevant. The imporant thing is that however ship trading is implimented it: a) doesn't make faction exclusivity pointless and b) has a positive effect on the economy.
Maybe if the suggestion wasn't so self serving and instead benefitted new players while/or building on the faction differences and system rather than trying to neuter it, the fact that someone is a longtime player wouldn't come into the conversation.
You clearly are able to type a lot of words, but unable to fully contemplate the full application of this suggestion, which is that it would benefit everyone, not just vets. If implimented in its simplest form, I could simply drop a valk off to anyone who has Heavy Miner or XC moth. You don't have to be a vet to get one of those.
Also, posting new suggestions inside of a suggestion post is pointless and is wasted effort, even if they are great suggestions. If you seriously want your ideas considered and to have any meaning you need to make a new post for them... otherwise they get lost in the unsearchable morass.
I would disagree. Whether or not it's overused and abused is irrelevant. The imporant thing is that however ship trading is implimented it: a) doesn't make faction exclusivity pointless and b) has a positive effect on the economy.
Maybe if the suggestion wasn't so self serving and instead benefitted new players while/or building on the faction differences and system rather than trying to neuter it, the fact that someone is a longtime player wouldn't come into the conversation.
You clearly are able to type a lot of words, but unable to fully contemplate the full application of this suggestion, which is that it would benefit everyone, not just vets. If implimented in its simplest form, I could simply drop a valk off to anyone who has Heavy Miner or XC moth. You don't have to be a vet to get one of those.
Also, posting new suggestions inside of a suggestion post is pointless and is wasted effort, even if they are great suggestions. If you seriously want your ideas considered and to have any meaning you need to make a new post for them... otherwise they get lost in the unsearchable morass.
your A and B points are what all the discussion is about and is directly contrary to any "simplest means" way of implementing the suggestion. Snipping quotes out of context and responding to them isn't explaining how to do your A and B requirements. My response and your quote snip of it is directed to the suggesting of ship trading and not addressing any of the reasons why it was nerfed and removed in the first place and avoiding the concerns when brought up or acting like they wont exist.
I haven't seen anyone else suggest how to handle those A and B requirements (if they even acknowledge that those requirements exist...some dont) that makes any sense outside of the bit of posts regarding the dealing of drops disappearing on logoff. What I called suggestions were suggestions on how to either address ship trading concerns or like in my last post, get the same effect in a slightly different way while also dealing with the A and B requirements. They're solution suggestions, nothing more.
I personally think the devs will choose to spend their time on how to improve new player experience and keep new players from falling off in droves before they have a chance to even enjoy what the game has to offer. So I'm not really worried about this suggestion going live anytime soon in case my posts get lost in the morass.
I haven't seen anyone else suggest how to handle those A and B requirements (if they even acknowledge that those requirements exist...some dont) that makes any sense outside of the bit of posts regarding the dealing of drops disappearing on logoff. What I called suggestions were suggestions on how to either address ship trading concerns or like in my last post, get the same effect in a slightly different way while also dealing with the A and B requirements. They're solution suggestions, nothing more.
I personally think the devs will choose to spend their time on how to improve new player experience and keep new players from falling off in droves before they have a chance to even enjoy what the game has to offer. So I'm not really worried about this suggestion going live anytime soon in case my posts get lost in the morass.
So far, everyone has only talked about this being used for faction exclusive ships. This is most certainly not all it will be used for. I know a quite few pilots that would rather buy their particular ship of choice other than the place it is offered. It would take some work on the count of the seller to be moving ships around so I highly doubt that abusing it would be worth it all that much. Abuse of ship trade would make the prices for them go down, making it less profitable.
There is a way to implement this as well. Just make all ships capable of being jettisoned except for faction specific ships, namely the UDV, SCP, and Valk. We can just keep the current rules for just those ships. This would allow at least SOME ship to ship trading which is not only needed, but actually considered by most to be missing.
There is a way to implement this as well. Just make all ships capable of being jettisoned except for faction specific ships, namely the UDV, SCP, and Valk. We can just keep the current rules for just those ships. This would allow at least SOME ship to ship trading which is not only needed, but actually considered by most to be missing.
If somebody hauled a bunch of Wraiths, Tung Taurs, Atlas X's, etc up to Deneb, I'd totally pay a premium for those.
And thats what I'm talking about...Just leave the check for the faction specific ships. If someone who is really set on challenging every little thing that might not "make sense" in the universe of VO, we can just say that you can't drop those ships because they are programmed to self destruct on release. Hell, I would even say if trading faction specific ships is that big a deal, then make it so that when someone tries to jettison it, it instantly disappears. But we NEED to be able to trade ships.