Allow player contributed plugins to be loadable only when connecting to the test server for designing and troubleshooting. Once satisfied, the plugin can be submitted the same way missions are on the PCC (with that expanded submission feature added).

PCC members can then review the plugins and the devs can then sign off on them to be packed in an asset file that is protected like any other VO asset against tampering. This would be distributed with VO proper like missions etc are. All users would be able to select from the available plugins which to enable or which to disable in an options menu. These would be the only "plugins" available to be used on the production server.

No. The way the stripped out plugin API is designed is already essentially tamper proof. Why should the PCC/All users get source access to guild plugins or private plugins that are simple mods? Just no. This is a waste of the PCC's time, and the little developer time we already have. I like the customisability of this game, and placing more restrictions on this will only harm the game.

By the way, what is causing this suggestion? You must have had some suspicion that someone is cheating by using a plugin, so out with it.. What's your motive?

If you have evidence of cheating, then submit a support ticket. It's not that hard.

-1

We just had this conversation not too long ago.

My motivation is to end the greatest source of the "They're cheating" culture. This would guarantee that. I dont believe plugins that affect the shared game environment should be restricted or allow to be run "untrusted".

I dont see any negative to getting rid of an aspect of the game that time and again ends up poisoning gameplay. And I dont buy that there isn't the bandwidth to review a handful of scripts to make sure nothing shady seems to be getting done.

But anyway, that's my suggestion. The devs probably wont take it. That's fine too.

It doesn't poison game play, most people just use it as an excuse for losing in a fight or whatever. If anything it enhances gameplay, and customises it for the individual. Don't take that element away.

I'm not suggesting plugins be taken away or the ability to create your own. I'm saying when it comes to playing in the game universe that everyone else is, that the game is the same for everyone, meaning everyone has in-game access to the same mods that everyone else has and they can choose to use what's active or not at their discretion. Enhancing gameplay for everyone is better than enhancing gameplay for a handful of players.

Didn't you already post a thread about this like a month ago?

Who tampered with your plugins?

The immediate problem to this suggestion is that in order to "test" a plugin properly, it must be run under the same conditions as one would expect in production (i.e. the main server). That's just basic project management. What you may not be aware of is that the conditions on the test server are decidedly NOT identical to the main server. As just a base example, my character is in a guild on the main server but in one on the test server. I actually like it that way, as it makes testing easier with the same character name. (because after all, a basic test case we should all use when testing our plugins is how does the plugin behave for a similarly named character in and not in a guild, as well as differently named characters in various status positions and from various nations)

Your suggestion CellSafe is not conducive with good IT management or development practices. And I should know, as that is exactly what I've done to make my proverbial bread and butter for 30 years.

-1 I like my private plugins and if I wanted others to use them I'd share them.

-1. Again.

"Didn't you already post a thread about this like a month ago?"

Technically this isn't a duplicate of his previous completely fucking idiotic thread, but it's close enough that your confusion is understandable.

"Who tampered with your plugins?"

Nobody tampered with his plugins. He's concerned about people having their own personal plugins (or personal modifications to public plugins) that not everybody else has. In essence, he's one of those evil extreme-egalitarians who thinks that naturally smart people should be drugged into idiocy, and naturally fast people clapped in irons, etc.

We test missions there, plugins don't have to be any different. A plugin that works amongst a guild can be tested there between a pair of players. I reject your idea that plugins would be unable to be vetted on the test server when we do it for missions and other features and that is the very reason why a test server exists. In the end, missions may get revised after being promoted to production and unforseen situations arise. Same can be done for plugins.

As an it professional, I find it laughable that you would suggest a production environment as the proper and only place to test. You always install or run new code in a non production environment before going live. That is just good user experience and responsible management.

But that is besides the point really.

I don't believe any of this punishes smart people. It just punishes self serving ones in an aspect of the game where that does not belong.

-1

I prefer testing plugins on the test server when I can, but there are a multitude of situations that can only properly be tested on the production server. Plus there are issues that crop up that you wouldn't expect, like a lua error that occurs when exiting a turret for a plugin that doesn't have anything to do with turrets. When a new version of one of my plugins is "done", I'll install it on my production client, and if no issues are encountered after 2-3 weeks of normal gameplay, then I will release it to the public.

As it is, it is already hard enough to recruit other players to test pre-release versions of my plugins. If those players were forced to log on to the test server to be able to test my plugins, then forget it, all bets are off.

Furthermore, I make little tweaks here and there to plugins released by other people to suit my personal whims. Don't like the sounds that come with SoundAlertSuite? No problem, replace them with your own. Want HUD_messages to display additional notifications like enabling/disabling turbo lock? By all means, edit away!

This suggestion would prevent plugins that are written by other players from being modified to suit your personal style, or even worse yet, would result in everybody and their uncle uploading slight variations of a given plugin, and it would be a nightmare sorting through the drivel to find plugins actually worth installing.

-1

All the information you are worried that other people have and you don't is all within the same sandbox waiting for you to do something with it.

"I don't believe any of this punishes smart people. It just punishes self serving ones in an aspect of the game where that does not belong."

You are mistaken. Besides what meridian mentions about making small personalization changes, there is also the matter of delays. As it is now, if I'm playing and I realize I could make an improvement to a plugin I use, I can make that change and immediately start benefiting from it. Other people could have those same benefits nearly as quickly, as soon as I'm confident that it works correctly and have updated either the package or the git repo. If they want to be "certain" it is bug-free, they can choose to wait a few weeks or months before using the plugin, but that choice is left up to them rather than being forced on them. Bugfixes can happen much more quickly, and plugins can more quickly be created in response to changes in the state of the game/community.

You claim that you're just concerned about transparency, and yet you make all these suggestions that place unnecessary burdens on anybody who wants to make or edit a plugin. Here's a better (but still stupid) idea: Just have the game automatically upload all loaded lua files (if they've changed since last time) to a per-account area that is publicly accessible to anybody with a valid game account. No submission process, no vetting, no delays (other than during login when the changed data gets uploaded). Then if somebody thinks somebody else is using a plugin that gives them an advantage, they can just look that character up and grab that code for themselves. (Internally it should all be per-account, but the user-facing view should be per-character.) Support tickets could then be filed if people find a plugin that is invalid.

That way you're treating people as innocent until proven guilty instead of the reverse, and nobody has to jump through hoops to make and use plugins.

And to be clear, I'd still -1 a suggestion like that (privacy violation! grrr!), but I'd greatly prefer it to this one.

this thread is funny

CellSafe, no one said the main server should suffice as a test server. You merely assumed we did. The problem however is that conditions on the test server and conditions on the main server are not the same and cannot be made to be the same by the players. Specifically, you cannot test guild plugins by simply getting together a couple of people. There are functions in the API very specific to guilds. Only if 2 people are in the same guild can they be tested.

I would have to agree with the others. If you think someone has an unfair advantage due to plugins (which really isn't all that possible anymore; the days when you could write code to control your ship in combat are long gone - even then I'm not really sure that'd be an advantage. I mean have you ever fought NPCs? They really can't shoot straight), then find out which one and download it or write your own. I realize it's a bit of a tech race, but it's one we all have to deal with. When I first started playing VO 5 years ago (yeah, I know...I'm a youngling), I was interested in writing plugins, but at first felt that all the good ideas would've been done already. Nevertheless, I persevered and eventually wrote Navcomp (first of many). There are still original ideas to be done. (or redone. The newer Cargolist is a rewrite of one done several years before)

I apologize for being long winded, but really instead of complaining about plugins, get off your proverbial high horse and just start writing. You may find that to be more enjoyable that running around shooting at things. (or not - it's your decision)

-1

We don't need the closed Apple mentality in here, cellsafemode. I'd guess that's what you are, a mac fanboy? If you honestly use and like linux, you'd understand the open source principles. I would much prefer an open environment that invites tinkering and experimenting to an extent, for improvement for all. It's what makes this game stand out from the other AAA titles for me, the reason that I actually play it. I haven't personally written a plugin myself, but I would like to. No, it's not going to be private. I would actually share it with the public.

Your real reason for suggesting this seems to be prevent serious in-game advantages that a player with customized private plugins would have over a newbie. You have yet to list ANY specific advantages. What are they? Enlighten me, please. All of the best plugins like targetless is already public, easily installable by anyone.

Rin's idea is far better than the OP. However, there is an ugly thing staring us all right in the face...DEV time. Do we really want the devs using their valuable time writing a new plugin certification process, or do we want new tridents? No need to to respond to my post...we all have to same answer, save for cellsafemode.

-1 again.