Currently, Temp-KOS as issued via NFZ violations is a bit more toothless than I'd like.

For one thing, I don't think the Temp-KOS timer should continue ticking while within that faction's monitored or guarded space. In fact, I'd be fine with having it run in reverse, accumulating a larger time the longer you spend in the space where you are currently unwanted. But at a bare minimum, it should at least pause and only resume ticking down when you leave.

Another problem is that it's trivial to cancel out the penalty by grabbing a free bus and then using /explode. Or just losing your current ship, if it and its gear aren't anything annoying to obtain. So I say keep the timer ticking after death, and knock five minutes off the timer for each death you suffer in that faction's space or at the hands of members of that faction (e.g. convoys you bump into at a wormhole).

So the fastest way for somebody to undo Temp-KOS would then be to home in a nearby station owned by a different faction, buy a bus, and jump to the faction you offended to let them kill you three times in a row.

It might be even better to reduce the penalty based on the price of the ship that was destroyed, at a rate of one minute per 20,000 credits worth of ship. That way losing cheap ships would have less impact on the remaining penalty than losing expensive ones.


This should also tie into the graduated penalty system when that comes along, which would make things less harsh for newbies. The amount of minutes a lost ship gets could start out much higher and decrease with repeat offenses, and similarly, the rate at which the timer runs down within faction space could start out normal and decrease until it runs in reverse for frequent offenders.

Another problem is that it's trivial to cancel out the penalty by grabbing a free bus and then using /explode.

If you ask me, this falls into the category of game-breaking exploit. What good is a penalty that you can trivially erase with a minimal amount of time and effort?

I believe you can use the squadron mission and physically bump into a ship in the NFZ, not triggering NFZ or station guard response but your wingmen will respond to the damage inflicted on you by whoever you bumped and then blow them away with impunity. The other player can't defend themselves without triggering station guard response and the offending player is not penalized at all for what the NPC wingmen are doing.

just another example of exploiting nfz and circumventing any sort of safeguards and penalties.

The CtC bots and hated NPC convoys can and will attack inside the NFZ too. All NPCs ignore it, but that's not the topic being discussed here, cellsafemode.

The topic is circumventing the intended harshness of penalties of attacking in a protected system or zone. The example the op gave is just one way this is done (by escaping kos by exploding in a freebie ship). I offered another example by hiring npc's to attack for you using a trick that causes damage to your ship that only results in your hired npc's responding. Resulting in no issue of any penalties and indeed, no factional repercussions despite the player being the sole cause of the conflict.

Both are completely regarding the same topic. Just two different ways people deal with it. One pays with free ships, the other exploits the system by hiring npc's to do the work.

"The topic is circumventing the intended harshness of penalties of attacking in a protected system or zone."

No it isn't. The topic is the two specific suggestions I made to help mitigate two of the problems with the existing system. If you want a general discussion of flaws with the penalty system, start a new thread in the general forum. There are plenty of other issues, but they are outside the scope of what these two suggestions are intended to address.

That's an easy fix. Let's take everyone's favorite NFZ to shoot people in as example: Corvus.

Player A shoots Player B in NFZ. A gets temp KOS and easily outruns the Seekers and Station Guards or goes in to wait the NFZ out, undocking and shooting B whenever he undocks.
Simple solution is: Extend temp KOS to 20 minutes and make it so that the timer resets once you shot at something in the NFZ AGAIN despite already wearing temp KOS.
This wouldn't make it impossible to violate of course but a lot more harder.

Yes, even at Corvus you should not be able to dock when Temp-KOS.
I also believe that the temp KOS should not go away until the timer runs out. The full time. It's BS that your death should cancel the KOS.
OH, and double the speed of the seekers...

There should always be someplace that a player can dock, no matter what. Corvus is this place.

The timer should not be canceled by death.

The timer should be restarted by repeat offence.

The timer could be additive per offence. The timer could a 1 min temp kos, per indecent, where every individual action counts as an indecent, plus 1 hour for every player/npc you kill. Shoot some one once, you are temp kos for 1 min. But shoot some one once with a volley of three weapons, that is three minutes, shoot someone twice with three weapons, 6 min. Actually killing someone would be an hour PLUS one minute per the number of weapon shots it took to kill them. An lmine could drive you off the map, so perhaps a cap of 24 hours.

If I am temp kos in the depths of itani space, for 1 min, because I scratched some newb's paint, should not require me to leave faction space. I should be allowed to simply leave the sector.

But having left faction space, and then returning while temp KOS should be serious. Returning to a faction space that you are listed as temp KOS should give you about a 5 min window to leave, at which point, the faction should start deducting LONG TERM standing, not just temp standing. The rate of long term standing loss could be equivalent to shooting a ctc bot every 60 seconds. In addition to time, repeat incidents in faction space after returning while temp kos would not only increase the temp kos timer, but also deduct from long term standing, per indecent, at a rate of one ctc bot per indecent (shot). Going back to faction space and engaging in conflict could and would lead to long term KOS.

Corvus would be exempted from long term standing penalties attributed to NFZ and temp kos infractions.

Nation factions may opt to exempt nation pilots from long term standing loss due to incidents against non nation pilots.

"If I am temp kos in the depths of itani space, for 1 min, because I scratched some newb's paint, should not require me to leave faction space. I should be allowed to simply leave the sector."

This is why I specified only monitored and guarded sectors. There are unmonitored sectors within nation space where you can hide out. But yeah, I having all non-station and non-wormhole sectors count could work as well.


"Yes, even at Corvus you should not be able to dock when Temp-KOS."

So then what happens when you're already KOS with your home nation and now Temp-KOS with Corvus? Even if the game selected another faction for you to respawn at when Corvus isn't available, there's still the possibility of being KOS with all non-Corvus and then getting Temp-KOS with Corvus. Locking people into a loading screen for 15 minutes like the game used to do is not an acceptable solution.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that Corvus has to always let you dock when you're Temp-KOS with them. It could be adjusted to only do that when all other factions consider you unwelcome.


"I also believe that the temp KOS should not go away until the timer runs out. The full time. It's BS that your death should cancel the KOS."

For somebody like me, I pretty much agree. However, that may be unnecessarily harsh to the newbies. That's why I proposed to make the amount of time skipped by dying vary based on your criminal history. Newbies would screw up, get killed, and move on with their life. Somebody who should know better would only lessen the timer by dying, not reset it. Somebody like me might have to die a lot to reset the timer, if that was even an option.


"OH, and double the speed of the seekers..."

Now you're just being silly. Seekers are not supposed to be inescapable, and they're already extremely fast. Their purpose is to force you to keep moving rather than just dodging, and they do a fine job of that already.

The rest of the SF, on the other hand, could do with some slight buffing (particularly to their escalation of force as they fail to remove you). But that's beyond the scope of this thread.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that Corvus has to always let you dock when you're Temp-KOS with them. It could be adjusted to only do that when all other factions consider you unwelcome.

Or you could respawn to an unaligned station with nothing as equipment but a free bus and the only way to quit this sector it too take a wormhole 50k away from the station.