Forums » Suggestions
Charged Cannon - needs some love
Nobody uses this weapon. Which means it's probably in desperate need for a tweaking of it's parameters because its niche is viable.
0% charge refire rate should be on par with Gauss (0.5 seconds).
it should take you about 0.5 seconds to fully charge. This yields a refire rate at 2000 damage of just over 2x that of Gauss.
Plasma speed should be increased to 200m/s
The energy drain is already twice that of gauss so abusing this weapon (being that it is a much lower level entry) should not be possible, yet adjusting these parameters should make it useful to pilots who dont yet have the level to get gauss.
An mk2 should be implemented as well that requires double digit levels to purchase. eg, 11/-/12/-/- . Additionally, though meaning more work for devs, it should be an unlockable weapon that is achieved by participating in and winning 10 Large Skirmish battles in Deneb (joined from within 10 min of starting to fully finished). There is an itani and a Serco version with blue and red plasma respectively.
The mk2 is a large port version of the small port mk1.
It doubles the energy output of fully charged burst to 4000.
Charge time is 0.6 seconds starting from 1200
Refire rate at 0% charged equal to 0.5s.
Energy drain is still 60 but plasma speed is decreased to 180m/s.
Grid usage is 16 to make equipping two and chainfiring impossible.
edit: Participation in skirmishes should require 90% of your time in the battle sector so nobody gets the smart idea of joining a battle and sitting in the base or some other empty sector while they are afk. The tracking of which would not be retro-active for players.
0% charge refire rate should be on par with Gauss (0.5 seconds).
it should take you about 0.5 seconds to fully charge. This yields a refire rate at 2000 damage of just over 2x that of Gauss.
Plasma speed should be increased to 200m/s
The energy drain is already twice that of gauss so abusing this weapon (being that it is a much lower level entry) should not be possible, yet adjusting these parameters should make it useful to pilots who dont yet have the level to get gauss.
An mk2 should be implemented as well that requires double digit levels to purchase. eg, 11/-/12/-/- . Additionally, though meaning more work for devs, it should be an unlockable weapon that is achieved by participating in and winning 10 Large Skirmish battles in Deneb (joined from within 10 min of starting to fully finished). There is an itani and a Serco version with blue and red plasma respectively.
The mk2 is a large port version of the small port mk1.
It doubles the energy output of fully charged burst to 4000.
Charge time is 0.6 seconds starting from 1200
Refire rate at 0% charged equal to 0.5s.
Energy drain is still 60 but plasma speed is decreased to 180m/s.
Grid usage is 16 to make equipping two and chainfiring impossible.
edit: Participation in skirmishes should require 90% of your time in the battle sector so nobody gets the smart idea of joining a battle and sitting in the base or some other empty sector while they are afk. The tracking of which would not be retro-active for players.
It would probably see a lot more use if it stopped draining energy when its charge was full like how Repair Modules work. Or at least didn't auto-fire fully charged blasts when your battery drains all the way.
As of right now, it's more commonly used chainfired for rapid-fire low-energy mass damage.
As of right now, it's more commonly used chainfired for rapid-fire low-energy mass damage.
yes, making it's charge behavior work exactly the same as repair modules is the way to go as far as that's concerned.
Increasing the grid usage of the small version to 8 should minimize chainfire abuse. It's high energy drain and limit of equipping 2 max should keep it from outstepping it's intended power range and weapon niche.
Increasing the grid usage of the small version to 8 should minimize chainfire abuse. It's high energy drain and limit of equipping 2 max should keep it from outstepping it's intended power range and weapon niche.
Is chainfire actually abuse?
The devs fixed it so it no longer fires without energy , and it does obey its own rate limits just fine.
The devs fixed it so it no longer fires without energy , and it does obey its own rate limits just fine.
chainfiring itself is not what I'm calling abuse. I'm referring to the use of chainfiring to make the weapon far more effective than it was intended to be for the levels and parameters that were given to it.
There are only so many parameters that can be given to a weapon within the game's engine to balance it and give it purpose. When it's decided to make refire rate an important balance measure for a particular weapon, then chainfiring might be used to circumvent that.
That is abuse via chainfiring. Either requiring re-balance of the weapon by some means that chainfiring doesn't circumvent or making chainfiring the weapon not possible at all.
This is only really an issue for special purpose weapons. Weapons with unique characteristics or special in some way.
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My intention with the thread though is to re-balance the charged cannon so it obeys new limits and provides an incentive to actually use it the way it's intended to be used. As well as suggest an mk2 variant that provides an incentive to participate in the rather overlooked Deneb aspect of the game. At least for roughly 10 hours anyway.
Fixing this weapon will also open up a new niche in combat since charging a weapon to deliver a single devestating shot (with the mk2 capable of single shot killing light ships) requires a noticeable change in how you approach ship to ship combat. A niche that doesn't currently exist but was I believe intended otherwise why have the charged cannon at all.
There are only so many parameters that can be given to a weapon within the game's engine to balance it and give it purpose. When it's decided to make refire rate an important balance measure for a particular weapon, then chainfiring might be used to circumvent that.
That is abuse via chainfiring. Either requiring re-balance of the weapon by some means that chainfiring doesn't circumvent or making chainfiring the weapon not possible at all.
This is only really an issue for special purpose weapons. Weapons with unique characteristics or special in some way.
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My intention with the thread though is to re-balance the charged cannon so it obeys new limits and provides an incentive to actually use it the way it's intended to be used. As well as suggest an mk2 variant that provides an incentive to participate in the rather overlooked Deneb aspect of the game. At least for roughly 10 hours anyway.
Fixing this weapon will also open up a new niche in combat since charging a weapon to deliver a single devestating shot (with the mk2 capable of single shot killing light ships) requires a noticeable change in how you approach ship to ship combat. A niche that doesn't currently exist but was I believe intended otherwise why have the charged cannon at all.
"Increasing the grid usage of the small version to 8 should minimize chainfire abuse."
You can nerf my chainsaw when you pry it from my cold gorey hands! :P
You can nerf my chainsaw when you pry it from my cold gorey hands! :P
you can keep your chainsaw with the current "broken" charged cannon.
But if the charged cannon is fixed in a way somewhat along the lines I'm suggesting then it has to be made unable to be used in such a manner because it'll actually work effectively as originally designed. And that would make chainfiring break the weapon balance.
But if the charged cannon is fixed in a way somewhat along the lines I'm suggesting then it has to be made unable to be used in such a manner because it'll actually work effectively as originally designed. And that would make chainfiring break the weapon balance.
-1 to 0.5 seconds to fully charge
-1 to increasing speed to 200m/s
-1 for raising grid requirements
In fact, charge cannons are fine just the way they are.
Half a second is way too fast to fully charge a charge cannon. The whole point is to store up energy slowly but be able to do massive damage all at once. Charged shots aren't supposed to be higher DPS than standard blasters, quite the opposite really.
Leave the speed where it is at 190 m/s. The charged shots hit hard, but the slow speed makes them easier to dodge (i.e. save your shot until your target is exposed and won't evade).
"It would probably see a lot more use if it stopped draining energy when its charge was full like how Repair Modules work. Or at least didn't auto-fire fully charged blasts when your battery drains all the way."
Actually, that's exactly how the charge cannon works now. It stops charging when the charge is full and no longer auto-fires.
Apparently Rin is the only person in this thread who actually uses charge cannons, and an explanation of how they work is necessary:
Each charge cannon consumes 60 energy per second while charging, and requires 1000 energy for a full charge. With a FC powercell it takes 16.67 seconds to charge one. If you have four, you'd need 4000 energy to fully charge them all. Assuming a fully charged FC, you'd get 250 energy off the bat, and it would take 75 seconds for the remaining 3750 energy at 50 energy per second.
Raising the grid requirements is silly because just two wouldn't pack much punch. You'd almost certainly be better off with conventional blasters.
And your concerns about chain-fire abuse are unwarranted. That exploit has been fixed so that charge cannons no longer use energy the player doesn't have when the energy cells are depleted. Using 3 chain-fired charge cannons has a negligible increase in DPS now compared to using 2 because the limiting factor is the recharge rate of your powercell. You can no longer use energy you don't have.
I re-iterate that charge cannons are fine exactly the way they are.
-1 to increasing speed to 200m/s
-1 for raising grid requirements
In fact, charge cannons are fine just the way they are.
Half a second is way too fast to fully charge a charge cannon. The whole point is to store up energy slowly but be able to do massive damage all at once. Charged shots aren't supposed to be higher DPS than standard blasters, quite the opposite really.
Leave the speed where it is at 190 m/s. The charged shots hit hard, but the slow speed makes them easier to dodge (i.e. save your shot until your target is exposed and won't evade).
"It would probably see a lot more use if it stopped draining energy when its charge was full like how Repair Modules work. Or at least didn't auto-fire fully charged blasts when your battery drains all the way."
Actually, that's exactly how the charge cannon works now. It stops charging when the charge is full and no longer auto-fires.
Apparently Rin is the only person in this thread who actually uses charge cannons, and an explanation of how they work is necessary:
Each charge cannon consumes 60 energy per second while charging, and requires 1000 energy for a full charge. With a FC powercell it takes 16.67 seconds to charge one. If you have four, you'd need 4000 energy to fully charge them all. Assuming a fully charged FC, you'd get 250 energy off the bat, and it would take 75 seconds for the remaining 3750 energy at 50 energy per second.
Raising the grid requirements is silly because just two wouldn't pack much punch. You'd almost certainly be better off with conventional blasters.
And your concerns about chain-fire abuse are unwarranted. That exploit has been fixed so that charge cannons no longer use energy the player doesn't have when the energy cells are depleted. Using 3 chain-fired charge cannons has a negligible increase in DPS now compared to using 2 because the limiting factor is the recharge rate of your powercell. You can no longer use energy you don't have.
I re-iterate that charge cannons are fine exactly the way they are.
+1 to making the charged cannon better and something people would use outside the the chainfire situation
Chain fire abuse is a funny concept, btw.
Chain fire abuse is a funny concept, btw.
And FYI-- The weapon you are proposing is pretty much the Plasma Annihilator. It does 1800 damage instead of 2000, has a velocity of 202 instead of 200, and a delay of 0.5 seconds. If fired once per second, it would have 70 drain compared to 60. The grid requirements prevent equipping two Annies, but firing one twice per second would be basically the same thing (and equipping two would pretty much be a waste of a large port anyway).
Just remove the auto-fire when out of energy and it will be perfect.
meridian - With current powercells and charge cannon mechanics, it is impossible to fully charge 4 charge cannons.
Charge cannons automatically fire when you run out of powercell energy. They also continue draining energy even when they reach a full charge. The result of this is it's extremely difficult to make use of them for their "intended" purpose as a charge and release weapon.
If they didn't fire when your battery hit 0, but instead held their charge and kept draining to keep your battery at 0, this would not be a problem.
If they stopped draining energy when full and held their charge as long as the trigger is held down this would not be a problem.
As they are right now, this is about the only thing standing in their way of being useful beyond the current "chainsaw" scheme. Their stats are otherwise fine.
The grid requirements prevent equipping two Annie
This is not true anymore. Also they're 205m/s now. Have you used them in the last year?
Charge cannons automatically fire when you run out of powercell energy. They also continue draining energy even when they reach a full charge. The result of this is it's extremely difficult to make use of them for their "intended" purpose as a charge and release weapon.
If they didn't fire when your battery hit 0, but instead held their charge and kept draining to keep your battery at 0, this would not be a problem.
If they stopped draining energy when full and held their charge as long as the trigger is held down this would not be a problem.
As they are right now, this is about the only thing standing in their way of being useful beyond the current "chainsaw" scheme. Their stats are otherwise fine.
The grid requirements prevent equipping two Annie
This is not true anymore. Also they're 205m/s now. Have you used them in the last year?
This is not true anymore. Also they're 205m/s now. Have you used them in the last year?
Well, I've certainly never tried equipping two Annies at the same time. But more like I've been lax about keeping my spreadsheet of weapon stats up to date. That, and the in-game stats are so hard to read that I never look at them anymore.
+1 to making charge cannons not fire immediately when the battery drains to zero
+1 to making them stop draining energy once fully charged
Well, I've certainly never tried equipping two Annies at the same time. But more like I've been lax about keeping my spreadsheet of weapon stats up to date. That, and the in-game stats are so hard to read that I never look at them anymore.
+1 to making charge cannons not fire immediately when the battery drains to zero
+1 to making them stop draining energy once fully charged