I basically agree with Lecter's post (I am a Morrowind fan, and also EV:N as well as its prequels which I spent many childhood hours modding).

The only thing I would add is that VO has only been boring to me for a few brief minutes across more than a decade of entertainment. That's not to say it couldn't be improved, but any time the devs of a game lay the tools at a player's feet I'm one to pick up a chisel before claiming boredom. I don't think this makes me better in any way than someone who just comes to "consume" what content is available... just, easily entertained, perhaps. I also have only a couple hours per week to devote to gaming, I keep up a regular YouTube channel dedicated to VO, as well as a journal. Therefore, I also relate to the feeling of playing VO religiously.

I don't think allowing players to sell ships to each other in any way that sidesteps the recent factional limitations is the right direction. For years, players have noted that there are not many meaningful differentiations between nations. Limiting factional increases of non-native nations to 600 is a good thing. Allowing players to sell ships to each other would be counter to this, or if not, would serve little purpose.

Deneb I think is a testbed of a much broader implementation to come. Rather than thinking of how to get to Deneb more quickly, a more interesting thought experiment is how to get Deneb everywhere.

There are a couple craftable cells in game right now. The UC cell I see as a meaningful reward to a difficult-to-attain badge. Making the UC craftable probably isn't that hard, but I'm not sure this is the right direction, either.

Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder. Some bots may be easy to take on while playing via PC but present quite a challenge while on mobile. Learning how to tackle different bots on different setups can be like a puzzle, and like any puzzle, learning to do it the first time presents the greatest challenge. For additional horizons I look to other players in PvP. Rather than introducing increasingly difficult tiers of bots stat-wise or AI-wise, I would be more interested in an expansion of Hive gameplay, including greater economic integration and impact. Similar to Deneb, I like to think about the Hive everywhere in a kind of cyclical, chaotic anti-balance. Have a look at Extra Credit's episode on perfect imbalance; that's what I mean, and I think the devs are already doing it in small ways with things like the factional limitations.

"2: Yes! He couldn't be more right on this one. Ever since that dumb standing update was done UIT were thrown off the Combat paths."

Bullshit. UIT still have access to the Corvult and the Rev-C, which are both damn good combat ships, as well as the BioVult, which isn't shabby. If you can't hold your own against a Prom or Valk using them, then you're simply incompetent.

That said, I am still a fan of allowing ship trading (and stealing, because Yarr). But I also want the game to treat standing-incompatible ships as contraband, and flying them within the wrong faction's space should have consequences.

As for your ignorant vomit regarding the faction system... wake up and smell the napalm, boy. You think you could have managed to be friends with both the Nazis and Britain? With both the KKK and the Black Panthers? Life doesn't work like that. Humans don't work like that. The Itani and Serco have been at war for hundreds of years. No, you don't get to buddy up to both of them. Anything you do to help one of them hurts the other by extension. The best you can do is to work with them both equally, maintaining neutrality. Oh hey, guess what: maybe it isn't a coincidence that being neutral results in a standing of "neutral"! Wow, what a concept!

Honestly, I think the UIT's top-tier ships probably could use a buff. But yeah, they do have good options at least in the light fighters category. There's just nothing at all like a SCP anywhere else in the game.

Bullshit. UIT still have access to the Corvult and the Rev-C, which are both damn good combat ships, as well as the BioVult, which isn't shabby. If you can't hold your own against a Prom or Valk using them, then you're simply incompetent.

Are you a little dumb? If two equally skilled pilots fight each other, one in a Valk X1 with dual flares and a Neut the other in... a dual Gauss Vult ( :) ), the dude in the X1 is gonna win. That was my Point. You don't have anything as great, no matter what you do in your Little Rev Cs and Corvults.

That said, I am still a fan of allowing ship trading (and stealing, because Yarr). But I also want the game to treat standing-incompatible ships as contraband, and flying them within the wrong faction's space should have consequences.

Ok. That's not a bad idea. Make it so Itani in a SCP get shot down in monitored...

As for your ignorant vomit regarding the faction system...other blablablabla

I get your point. Still a thing of considerance. You also avoided replying to my question why an Itani couldn't be POS with UIT. If you're going to rip it down to all sense making stuff... There you are. That does not make sense.

To Mr Absurd:
ye want top gear military ships, pick up a nation that has a military, join army or stfu;
UIT society is and must stay a bunch of lousy traderz.

However
-sellin' ships and stealin' ships shoulda bin implemented long time ago and of course consequences fer smugglin' illlegal shit bein' ships or cargoes.
-there should be two class of ship reserved fer piracy and fer bounty huntin'/law enforcement but they mustnt be military class ships

Ye get sumethin' ye shouldnt possess ye should face consequences fer paradin' with it.

And this shoulda bin done ages before addin' the bloody conquerable station and player owned capships.

To the rest of ye:

VO claims to be an RPG: this is total bullshit: I can join the army then at the same time with the same character get awesome minin' badges make a fortune tradin' good and pirate some convoys, there is no bloody fuckin' consequences in it and no game mechanism that prevent it!

As ye pick nation ye should pick a career path/class and progression in term of xp/badges stuff access craftin and dockin' privilege should be different or at least impacted.

Of course ye could change yer mind and take a new path but there should be a trade off: if i was a great warrior and now i want to be a great trader or a great miner i should resign from military and accept my level / access to stuff / privileges to be reduced.

Also keep in mind there is a reason YE have SIX character slots on yer account: RP.

But i guess this will nevah happen cos ye'r all just a bunch of lazy SOB who'd prefer to abuse the weakness of the game in term of RP enforcement mechanisms and that would rather fill a support ticket to change faction , job, without losin' any of the privilege attached to yer previous situation.

VO sux because YE GUYS MADE it sux the way ye'r playin' it.

Now stop blamin' the devs fer listenin' too much to yer pathetic whinin' or complainin' 'bout stuff they've spent days to code fer ye, and ye found borin' two weeks after it's bin released.

IT IS BLOODY FECKIN' TIME TO START LEARNIN' TO RP DONT YE THINK?

Sincerely yers.

Yer beloved Capt'N.

We love you Capt'N!

"Are you a little dumb? If two equally skilled pilots fight each other, one in a Valk X1 with dual flares and a Neut the other in... a dual Gauss Vult ( :) ), the dude in the X1 is gonna win. That was my Point. You don't have anything as great, no matter what you do in your Little Rev Cs and Corvults."

See, the problem with what you're saying is that even if the Prom and Valk are better than the Corvult and Rev-C (which is debatable), they aren't better by anywhere near as much as you seem to think. For example, look at this statement you made:

"But even a veteran can't do much if some average Serco pilot flies about with his SCP shooting gats and throwing flares. They just have so much of an advantage."

That is completely false. A skilled pilot in a simple Vulture MkIII can deal with "some average pilot" in any ship. That's a simple fact. The only time ships actually matter is when pilot skill is nearly equal. And that's actually pretty rare. As long as things are close enough (and they are), it isn't a real problem.

What Rin said.

The only time ships actually matter is when pilot skill is nearly equal. And that's actually pretty rare.

Really, a gat/flare SCP goes a long way in the hands of a mediocre pilot. You can't say the same thing about a Valk X1

Though how'd the thread get so derailed? let's get back on the OP's point. Whatever the heck that was supposed to be...

Topic is "i want a boring F2P + P2W vo version with a lot of grindin' and a lot of morons playin' it cos i am an damn awesome game marketing expert"

i would suggest to make the forum pay2whine :p

Well this went way off the tracks.

The Dev and others indicate resources are a problem as well as ability to focus on one thing due to financial balancing.

OK I got that.
So the solution is more money ? Time ?
I don't believe it is.

In fact the final portion of my initial post was to ask "how many subscriber based games are out there" vs the newer F2P based games ? That sort of tells you everything.

Again even if they built all the things the subscribers wanted those subscribers are not necessarily the majority of potential customers but only within the limited scope of the current subscriber base. Of course you want to keep them happy but actually they are the ones holding them back.

Instead of pissing everyone off and making drastic changes why not parallel portion of the current game for F2P game play only.

Fly through a wh and your in F2P space with totally separate set of rules.
Also separating tier vs tier play into various sectors too.
Tier 2's only sectors for battles only.

Not related to any grinding levels of current VO but you could do capture the flag battles similar to star conflict or WOT
Grind battles only. F2P any tier but grinding against other players only not part of current VO universe but only battle sectors for combat only.

spawn timers just like WOT capture the flag etc.
starts a tier 1 twitch to death battles for xp and credits.
there could be other higher tier equipment available for F2P play only grind or subscribe which is all that WOT actually is.
You subscribe to work up levels a little faster thats all. It's not pay to win either because your not actually playing against lower tier stuff in your new higher tier equipment.

What part of NOT pay to win don't you people get. WOT does not have pay to win they have a subscription based game play that simply increase your ability to gain XP and credits.
Even if you get XP and credits it's not like your playing against players in tier 1 and crushing them. Completly the opposite. Your playing against other same tier stuff.

So there is NO advantage of doing it other then to keep people addicted to pay to get new stuff quicker that is all.
If your patient you can get all the new stuff to and many have done just that.

I don't understand the reluctance to going with the KNOWN working profit model especially in a way that WON'T effect current VO base.

The difference in planning, budgeting and building a strictly subscriber based model only is the investment has to be in place first.

However, with F2P the income model comes along side of the advancement.

Why do you think people drop ship stuff ? Because they can sell something they don't actually have to own, have or invest in. They actually create income from something that is in advance of paying for the item.

So out of their payments they self pay for their own advancement.
If I wanted to double sales by purchasing double the inventory or opening another store it would be much more profitable in the short run to drop ship.

This model is exactly WHY F2P exists because even the crappiest of games where there is the (addiction topic) People can advance pay for announced special items that are related to other ongoing programming anyhow etc.
They can pay to gain faster access to new stuff and while they are doing it the devs can use the money to create more equipment they will spend money on.

I buy PAINT in WOT for crying out loud just because it looks cool.
Do I get any game play benifit out of it ? NO

How many in my own clan that spend GOLD on paint ? WOW 20 people at least.
Tournamnets offer the ability to earn free gold too so players contribute to it's own content too.

I mean seriously there is a way to work it out that does not required a complete revamp.
Deneb tiered battles alone could do this

Grind, grind, grind in Deneb all the time people would love it, F2P players would love it.

Same Deneb but just tiered for F2P only grind your bus in Deneb, Deneb only ships perhaps.
through tier 20 only available for deneb. Grind, subscribe for $10 to get faster xp and creds on Deneb only.

That alone could be an income boost for all their other ideas.
Honestly I would pay for that.

People complain about grinding but the actually love it.
I've spent in WOT alone in 1 year $500 and still only have 1 tier 10 tank
Also a year subscription for 360 days of premium

Won many tournaments for gold and still it's not enough gold. I could be content with simply playing the tanks I have knowing eventually I will get enough points for the next tank.

I know you subscribers hate it. I already know that. Elementary.
However, realistically whats going to change the financial status without a huge increase in subscribers, loan or some sort of change that would increase the income side ?

I would bet that even one sector of PVP grinding could do that.
Capture the flag in one sector or something ?
But what will actually change even if they had all they money they wanted to get things done do we know for sure this would create the level of subscribers need to overcome the investment ?

i dont like gridin', i like shootin' grinderz and steal what they've bin grindin' fer then sell it back to 'em fer an obscene amount of monies that's different.

"I've spent in WOT alone in 1 year $500 and still only have 1 tier 10 tank"

The rest of your post was completely unnecessary. This line was all you needed to say to prove your idiocy. Try not to be so redundant in the future.

Rin ftw.

I've already posted extensively about F2P, how we're going to try to do it, how it's an involved process and a high risk for a game to change business models without much capital, how we're already doing it, etc. I don't have anything to add to all of that.

It's a lot of work, and we don't have many people to do it.