Forums » Suggestions
Getting booted from the mission after two friendly fire kills is ridiculous and only serves to punish those who want to play in Deneb.
Presumably it's purpose was to discourage griefing, but people can grief the Deneb skirms just fine without joining the mission. The likelihood of someone joining a skirm to purposefully shoot their own side is so low that this penalty makes NO sense whatsoever.
Furthermore, NPCs kill friendlies all the time and obviously don't get kicked from the mission.
PLEASE REMOVE THIS.
Presumably it's purpose was to discourage griefing, but people can grief the Deneb skirms just fine without joining the mission. The likelihood of someone joining a skirm to purposefully shoot their own side is so low that this penalty makes NO sense whatsoever.
Furthermore, NPCs kill friendlies all the time and obviously don't get kicked from the mission.
PLEASE REMOVE THIS.
Or... make NPC fighters flee from incoming torpedoes?
I would think removing this penalty is MUCH easier than modifying the NPC AI. When's the last time we saw any improvement in the AI? 2006?
It's annoying for everything, not just avalons.
*additional comment*
After additional thought -- no, changing the AI would be something extra. Any mission penalty for killing friendlies should be faction standing ONLY. Otherwise it severely inhibits gameplay for no good reason whatsoever.
It's annoying for everything, not just avalons.
*additional comment*
After additional thought -- no, changing the AI would be something extra. Any mission penalty for killing friendlies should be faction standing ONLY. Otherwise it severely inhibits gameplay for no good reason whatsoever.
+1 This is going to be abused all to Hell, but it's easier/less frustrating to self-police a 5th column than to have the AI flip a shit because of splash damage/dumbass AI pilots.
+1, too, to having it affect standing like -10 per kill. That'll slow down the abuse without causing any real issues for "Oops, popped another idiot NPC friendly in the course of WINNING THE FUCKING BATTLE."
This shoddy execution plus the inability to direct moronic cap ship movements in a way that would make them at all useful is why I quit Deneb years ago and never bothered coming back.
+1, too, to having it affect standing like -10 per kill. That'll slow down the abuse without causing any real issues for "Oops, popped another idiot NPC friendly in the course of WINNING THE FUCKING BATTLE."
This shoddy execution plus the inability to direct moronic cap ship movements in a way that would make them at all useful is why I quit Deneb years ago and never bothered coming back.
+1 I should not get booted from the mission just because of a moment of insane rage when an allied npc steals one of my kills.
Seriously, being penalized for splash damage in this ways undermines one of the few ways Avalons can seriously be used. Especially when you consider the risk / time investment involved in setting up an Avalon stack in the first place.
Seriously, being penalized for splash damage in this ways undermines one of the few ways Avalons can seriously be used. Especially when you consider the risk / time investment involved in setting up an Avalon stack in the first place.
+1 to completely removing that.
Make sure it is also removed from Basic crit skirms vs. the Hive in Blue/Red/Grey-space. Not rarely do you accidently squash two NPC when XP farming or training Avalon stacking.
Make sure it is also removed from Basic crit skirms vs. the Hive in Blue/Red/Grey-space. Not rarely do you accidently squash two NPC when XP farming or training Avalon stacking.
We might also be able to just filter splash-damage kills, and call that the "cost of being in battle". Maybe someone will exploit that, but it'd be costly to do.
Do whatever gets the result sought as quickly as possible.
Slightly better results two years later = shit.
Slightly better results two years later = shit.
We might also be able to just filter splash-damage kills, and call that the "cost of being in battle".
That would be fantastic. Being constantly booted out of the mission for doing the one thing that it takes to actually win the skirmish; bombing enemy capital ships... sucks.
The fact that Border Skirmishes load in on the mission list last also doesn't help with getting back in to the action after getting kicked.
That would be fantastic. Being constantly booted out of the mission for doing the one thing that it takes to actually win the skirmish; bombing enemy capital ships... sucks.
The fact that Border Skirmishes load in on the mission list last also doesn't help with getting back in to the action after getting kicked.
Any way to differentiate kills that aren't your selected target, Inc? Plenty of times in Hive and border skirmishes, a stupid vulture flies right in the path of your swarm stack (and i'm sure hive bots do it on purpose!). Short of adding AI that is the equivalent of directing all friendlies to clear your firing solution, discounting non-targeted friendly kills in skirmishes might help both skirmish types.
Any way to differentiate kills that aren't your selected target, Inc?
That would be more involved to implement. Network protocol stuff would need to be added.
Otherwise.. I've passed this on to be ticketed (negating penalties for splash damage kills), I don't know exactly when we'll implement. Queue is full right now. But will try to prioritize it.
That would be more involved to implement. Network protocol stuff would need to be added.
Otherwise.. I've passed this on to be ticketed (negating penalties for splash damage kills), I don't know exactly when we'll implement. Queue is full right now. But will try to prioritize it.
Oh ffs. I didn't even realize this penalty existed till today. Two FFs due to NPCs flying in front of a swarm? Its not my fault they didn't notice the big blue streaks of light. When I get killed in Deneb, it's usually due to FF from the NPCs, and they don't get kicked from the group for this. Heck, most the players in Deneb don't care about a little FF. Poop happens in war. And the Factional standing hit in a war? Arrrrrrgggggg.
/Rant
/Rant
Well, we did nix it for splash-damage.
If I remove it for all cases, consider that you will be getting people playing who just focus on shooting their teammates, just to be dicks (or to actually help the other side). If there are no ramifications, they'll be able to keep doing that, indefinitely.
This might not be a common case right now, but keep in mind that Deneb is really a testbed for a broader usage case, where this may become much more likely. So, I'm all for suggestions on more nuanced ways of handling this, but a removal of all FF ramifications may not be the best overall solution.
If I remove it for all cases, consider that you will be getting people playing who just focus on shooting their teammates, just to be dicks (or to actually help the other side). If there are no ramifications, they'll be able to keep doing that, indefinitely.
This might not be a common case right now, but keep in mind that Deneb is really a testbed for a broader usage case, where this may become much more likely. So, I'm all for suggestions on more nuanced ways of handling this, but a removal of all FF ramifications may not be the best overall solution.
It's a lot better than it uused to be, Inc.
Using Avalons in a larger skirmish used to basically guarantee you would get kicked out, repeatedly.
Using Avalons in a larger skirmish used to basically guarantee you would get kicked out, repeatedly.
Ramifications are fine -- the only really annoying part is getting kicked from the group. And griefers (whether now, or in some future broader implimentation of this type of gameplay) don't / won't give a shit about whether or not they are in a group. Oh, and yeah, it's not only NOT a common case, but it's completely a non-issue right now, and, more to the point, it never has been an issue.
Oh look, overthinking balance issues has lead to an underwhelming implementation of content -- something new and different for VO.
Just make it -50 faction or so per kill, and remove the penalty entirely. Exploitation won't be a major issue because you can only absorb the faction hit for so long before needing to go fix the standing or become hated.
Just make it -50 faction or so per kill, and remove the penalty entirely. Exploitation won't be a major issue because you can only absorb the faction hit for so long before needing to go fix the standing or become hated.
-50 per kill is absurd. Play once in awhile, troll.
What about instead of penalizing automatically, the afflicted player is given a choice to penalize the perpetrator. They get 10 minutes or so type "/FFpenalty yes" or something to that effect.
cnaw, that's a good idea, but usually the friendly fire kills are from dumb NPCs who fly in your line of fire while trying to bomb capital ships. Players usually know to stay out of the way or learn to do so quickly.
Dr.Lecter, maybe you just don't remember, or maybe you're trying to mislead people again, but the border skirmish missions used to have a huge penalty for friendly kills. You could easily lose a couple hundred points in a single mission if the NPCs felt like catching swarms with their teeth.