Forums » Suggestions
Revisiting Beam Weaponry, a discussion
AKA Hitscan Weapons.
Would people be vehemently opposed to seeing these? I can't help but feel like these do have a place in VO, and I'm surprised they haven't been trialed on an experimental basis. Can anyone think of a situation where a hitscan weapon would be a terrible idea? The only one that occurs to me is on an automated turret- but having said that, couldn't automated turrets use something that packs a little more threat against agile targets?
Would you have them be hold-over-target PZZZZZZZZT weapons or rapid-fire ZAP ZAP ZAP weapons? Perhaps even a charging wzzzzzzSCHOOOOOM? (this is still a serious thread, but laser noises are of course welcome.)
What existing weapons, if any, would you convert to this type? I'd think the Charged Cannon and Repair Module would be no-brainers after some tweaking, since both are currently extremely weak in any serious combat scenario.
What restrictions would you put on them aside from limited range? (rarity, power drain, grid usage, low damage, low autoaim)
To give an example:
Zappity Zap MkI (S)
Damage: 350-ish
Firing delay: 0.2s
Energy usage: 22/shot
Autoaim: Railgun-ish
Range: 180-200m
Weight: Heavier than a blaster, lighter than a 'flare
My thoughts behind all this are relatively simple (they usually are!), fighter energy combat usually happens at a standoff range for the most part until one side takes the role of aggressor and changes up the relative velocity to get into a certain you-can't-dodge-anymore-range dependent on the specific blaster weapons in use. AGT and Gauss users want to be up in the enemy's face as much as possible, N3ers would rather stay a little further back, but outside 150m or so? You can't hit with energy with any sort of regularity, and fights can turn into tense but dull standoffs if neither pilot commits.
If you're up against someone with beam weaponry, it is not in your interests to sit back and dodge. It will not work, you will slowly get pecked apart- corkscrew-rolling or not. Likewise, if you favour beam weaponry, you will not survive against a skilfully aggressive pilot with blasters- his damage will be higher than yours, and his greater agility will be your undoing. This weapon will not win duels for you by itself, but on medium-sized fighter ships with a larger number of ports, like the Hornet or Raptor, you would be able to use one or two at standoff-range to either chivvy the enemy into going balls-out on you quickly or force them to retreat.
So! Please don't +1 or -1 this- instead, talk about why you'd want/not want beam weapons in Vendetta.
Would people be vehemently opposed to seeing these? I can't help but feel like these do have a place in VO, and I'm surprised they haven't been trialed on an experimental basis. Can anyone think of a situation where a hitscan weapon would be a terrible idea? The only one that occurs to me is on an automated turret- but having said that, couldn't automated turrets use something that packs a little more threat against agile targets?
Would you have them be hold-over-target PZZZZZZZZT weapons or rapid-fire ZAP ZAP ZAP weapons? Perhaps even a charging wzzzzzzSCHOOOOOM? (this is still a serious thread, but laser noises are of course welcome.)
What existing weapons, if any, would you convert to this type? I'd think the Charged Cannon and Repair Module would be no-brainers after some tweaking, since both are currently extremely weak in any serious combat scenario.
What restrictions would you put on them aside from limited range? (rarity, power drain, grid usage, low damage, low autoaim)
To give an example:
Zappity Zap MkI (S)
Damage: 350-ish
Firing delay: 0.2s
Energy usage: 22/shot
Autoaim: Railgun-ish
Range: 180-200m
Weight: Heavier than a blaster, lighter than a 'flare
My thoughts behind all this are relatively simple (they usually are!), fighter energy combat usually happens at a standoff range for the most part until one side takes the role of aggressor and changes up the relative velocity to get into a certain you-can't-dodge-anymore-range dependent on the specific blaster weapons in use. AGT and Gauss users want to be up in the enemy's face as much as possible, N3ers would rather stay a little further back, but outside 150m or so? You can't hit with energy with any sort of regularity, and fights can turn into tense but dull standoffs if neither pilot commits.
If you're up against someone with beam weaponry, it is not in your interests to sit back and dodge. It will not work, you will slowly get pecked apart- corkscrew-rolling or not. Likewise, if you favour beam weaponry, you will not survive against a skilfully aggressive pilot with blasters- his damage will be higher than yours, and his greater agility will be your undoing. This weapon will not win duels for you by itself, but on medium-sized fighter ships with a larger number of ports, like the Hornet or Raptor, you would be able to use one or two at standoff-range to either chivvy the enemy into going balls-out on you quickly or force them to retreat.
So! Please don't +1 or -1 this- instead, talk about why you'd want/not want beam weapons in Vendetta.
Seeing stuff coming and dodging out of the way is one of the most fun aspects of VO. If you want a longer-ranged weapon, equip a railgun.
We already had these in the general universe back when cap ships had uberdamage beam turrets, and we have a modified version of them still in the training sectors. They're boring.
Now, non-autotargeting beam weapons would be sweet: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/15587
Now, non-autotargeting beam weapons would be sweet: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/15587
Simple solution. Make mining beams do damage! The required close range should keep them from being boring.
I would rather see the mining beams do some damage based on thier heat rate.
It would make a good test for this type of weapon and give the miners something to defend with.
The limited range would be a good offset to the auto targetting and keep them from becoming over powered.
It would make a good test for this type of weapon and give the miners something to defend with.
The limited range would be a good offset to the auto targetting and keep them from becoming over powered.
Beam weapons would be very cool. I think there is a place for targetted and untargetted versions.
If mining beams are updated to damage ships, they should actually extract ore and/or components from the ships as well.
You would have every aspiring Trident captain chasing tridents in mining moths! +1 Pizza!
Personally, I don't like the idea of beam weaponry. Getting hit at range with a weapon that I have no chance of avoiding is not so much fun. Beam weapons would take away some of the tactical / strategic nuances of dodging in a fight.
(edit/OT: I understand Elite: Dangerous alpha gets away with this, but I think they also have some other strange mechanics introduced for balance purposes such as ships turning more slowly at lower velocities)
My only basis for this opinion is the beam weaponry the Frigate equipped in alpha. Lecter's suggestion may have some merit.
(edit/OT: I understand Elite: Dangerous alpha gets away with this, but I think they also have some other strange mechanics introduced for balance purposes such as ships turning more slowly at lower velocities)
My only basis for this opinion is the beam weaponry the Frigate equipped in alpha. Lecter's suggestion may have some merit.
Auto-targeting wouldn't be an issue with players, only NPCs. Every weapon has a certain range at which it is effectively undodgeable, and for the most part this is managed by staying out of that range until you're sure you have the upper hand.
Let's not fool ourselves, either- at a certain point (roughly half the distance a weapon can travel in a second) it becomes far, far easier to do as much as possible to screw with the other guy's autoaim rather than dodge reactively.
By drastically limiting the auto-aim on beam weapons it becomes much, much harder to hit someone with them at that standard effective blaster range, normally around 100m away, than with a blaster weapon. Anyone who's tried to use a railgun in close combat can attest to this. (in fact, with my suggested range of 180m, a railgun is undodgeable. There is no way you'd be able to see the projectile coming and affect your ship's velocity enough to evade the hit.)
I do however think it's a valid point that anything which can sidestep the issues with auto-aim entirely should not be able to make use of it at all. It'd be far from a point-and-click weapon, since ships have varying amounts of inertia which makes it awkward to keep an exact bead on your target.
To clarify- I was around during alpha, I'm not suggesting anything on the power level of the auto-targeting frigate beam turrets. Those were stupid.
Let's not fool ourselves, either- at a certain point (roughly half the distance a weapon can travel in a second) it becomes far, far easier to do as much as possible to screw with the other guy's autoaim rather than dodge reactively.
By drastically limiting the auto-aim on beam weapons it becomes much, much harder to hit someone with them at that standard effective blaster range, normally around 100m away, than with a blaster weapon. Anyone who's tried to use a railgun in close combat can attest to this. (in fact, with my suggested range of 180m, a railgun is undodgeable. There is no way you'd be able to see the projectile coming and affect your ship's velocity enough to evade the hit.)
I do however think it's a valid point that anything which can sidestep the issues with auto-aim entirely should not be able to make use of it at all. It'd be far from a point-and-click weapon, since ships have varying amounts of inertia which makes it awkward to keep an exact bead on your target.
To clarify- I was around during alpha, I'm not suggesting anything on the power level of the auto-targeting frigate beam turrets. Those were stupid.
A babylon 5 style straight shooting beam weapon for the front of my trident would be cool but not anything that doesn't require me to aim it
I am totally in favor of bringing beam cannons back for capital ships. As long as the person wielding it has to aim it.
A colossal, charging beam cannon for capital ships with a large cross-section and locked frontal facing would be just about the best thing.
However, there's a small problem with it- give it too much range and power, and it becomes an instant death cannon against smaller ships. For it to be fair, you'd have to either:
a) have it fire a smaller tracer beam 0.5-1 second before the giant one goes off, or
b) have it do the damage over a period of time, 2 seconds or so.
If it's a), you'd have to be not paying attention for it to hit you. Congratulations, you deserve to die! Unfortunately, whilst this would pose a significant potential threat, it wouldn't do any damage to anything smaller than a 'moth.
If b), well, that's an exceedingly dangerous weapon- however, the time taken to escape the beam would be proportional to the hit points of the target. Both a vulture and a centaur would be able to escape in time, both taking heavy damage for being dumb enough to get hit.
You could even combine the two if you're particularly worried.
That way you could give it... oh, I don't know. 30k damage! and it wouldn't be a hideously broken one shot kill machine, just a weapon appropriate in power for a ship that takes months to assemble.
However, there's a small problem with it- give it too much range and power, and it becomes an instant death cannon against smaller ships. For it to be fair, you'd have to either:
a) have it fire a smaller tracer beam 0.5-1 second before the giant one goes off, or
b) have it do the damage over a period of time, 2 seconds or so.
If it's a), you'd have to be not paying attention for it to hit you. Congratulations, you deserve to die! Unfortunately, whilst this would pose a significant potential threat, it wouldn't do any damage to anything smaller than a 'moth.
If b), well, that's an exceedingly dangerous weapon- however, the time taken to escape the beam would be proportional to the hit points of the target. Both a vulture and a centaur would be able to escape in time, both taking heavy damage for being dumb enough to get hit.
You could even combine the two if you're particularly worried.
That way you could give it... oh, I don't know. 30k damage! and it wouldn't be a hideously broken one shot kill machine, just a weapon appropriate in power for a ship that takes months to assemble.
A tracer beam right before firing is a neat idea.
+1 to revised idea. We've been asking for an Arachnid/Scarab/Raven EPL-style cap weapon for some time now...it'd be nice to finally get one.
+1....to Beams weaponry....
Large port beam weapon, no auto aim (fixed), duration based on battery, does damage somewhere around the type M shield recharge rate. I'll let you knowledgeable guys figure out what the damage rate should be. I'm thinking it would require using the trident heavy battery or bigger to de-shields a type-M alone. That makes it a choice to use it or a FC for running.