Forums » Suggestions
Perhaps so, but an SVG fix would make it at least bearable in the interim.
[quote]Give people a motivation to not run away, and the problem will largely vanish.[/quote]
This. If I am flying in a fast ship, and I am losing a fight, why would I not run away?
The problem is not solved with making all ships equally fast (that is just silly), but by (1) as said above, having victory conditions more important than PKs, or (2) having system damage affect the ship's performance, making it more difficult to run away after eating some flares.
I think the game would not become more interesting by 'equalizing' the factions such that each has a good ship for every role. Itan should have more nimble ships largely able to engage and disengage at will if undamaged, while Serco should have the heavier ships that can go in there and take and deal some serious damage...
This. If I am flying in a fast ship, and I am losing a fight, why would I not run away?
The problem is not solved with making all ships equally fast (that is just silly), but by (1) as said above, having victory conditions more important than PKs, or (2) having system damage affect the ship's performance, making it more difficult to run away after eating some flares.
I think the game would not become more interesting by 'equalizing' the factions such that each has a good ship for every role. Itan should have more nimble ships largely able to engage and disengage at will if undamaged, while Serco should have the heavier ships that can go in there and take and deal some serious damage...
I think that regional damage affecting performance is a good idea, but that's probably best suited to another thread.
Having an objective doesn't solve the problem though - then you shoebox the Itani into having to attack the objective with hit & run tactics, and you shoebox the Serco into having to defend the objective - because that's what their ships are designed to do.
There needs to be a balancing act with viable choices for both sides to adopt different strategies - the simplest one I could think of for the Serco was reducing drain - it's a start, and that's why I suggested it.
There needs to be a balancing act with viable choices for both sides to adopt different strategies - the simplest one I could think of for the Serco was reducing drain - it's a start, and that's why I suggested it.
-1
SVG is fine the way it is, hitting it is already like trying to throw a dart at a moving train from the back of a bus going the opposite direction, last thing we need is for it to bloody be able to run away longer.
SVG is fine the way it is, hitting it is already like trying to throw a dart at a moving train from the back of a bus going the opposite direction, last thing we need is for it to bloody be able to run away longer.
-99999999 No.
This thing as equipped already has a Mass/Thrust ratio on par with the IDF Valkyrie and a much thinner profile. You already can't chase one down that doesn't want to be caught.
OP might not remember this because he wasn't playing Serco at the time, but the SVG used to have 60/sec drain, and the rest of it's stats were set up around that. This IS the buffed version.
This thing as equipped already has a Mass/Thrust ratio on par with the IDF Valkyrie and a much thinner profile. You already can't chase one down that doesn't want to be caught.
OP might not remember this because he wasn't playing Serco at the time, but the SVG used to have 60/sec drain, and the rest of it's stats were set up around that. This IS the buffed version.
-1
I must agree with ARF and The Spence on this one, even though my opinion might seem Itani biased ;)
The flat profile of the vulture makes up for the slightly higher turbo energy usage in most use-cases.
I must agree with ARF and The Spence on this one, even though my opinion might seem Itani biased ;)
The flat profile of the vulture makes up for the slightly higher turbo energy usage in most use-cases.
If the SVG could run down a Valk, wouldn't it make it obsolete?
-1.
-1.
+1
Why would it make the Valk obsolete, Snk?
The corollary being that the only purpose of a valk is to run away? Snk?
Lol
Ship model considerations are irrelevant. They have nothing to do with drain.
When your top-end acceleration is a function of your top speed, 5m/s is a massive improvement in a standard chasing scenario. But this suggestion doesn't even address that difference because as all the itani blockheads haven't worked out that the suggestion has nothing to do with speed, it's about turbo drain and the fact that under any scenario the damage output of a 2port interceptor has dropped below the level of a 50% valkryie about ~20 seconds into the chase. All the valk pilot has to do is run for ~20 seconds and he is less guaranteed an escape barring unforseen circumstances.
Niki, ARF, Spence and the other Itani just point at the shape of the valkryie and go "look, it's not as good at intercepting". The relevant factors are armour, turbo thrust, weight and drain.
They are wrong. Transparent voting is transparent. Block Heads.
"The flat profile of the vulture makes up for the slightly higher turbo energy usage in most use-cases."
I ask you Niki, what the flying [profanity censored -P] does the profile of the ship have to do with its ability to intercept. Precisely [profanity censored -P] nothing is what!
Lol
Ship model considerations are irrelevant. They have nothing to do with drain.
When your top-end acceleration is a function of your top speed, 5m/s is a massive improvement in a standard chasing scenario. But this suggestion doesn't even address that difference because as all the itani blockheads haven't worked out that the suggestion has nothing to do with speed, it's about turbo drain and the fact that under any scenario the damage output of a 2port interceptor has dropped below the level of a 50% valkryie about ~20 seconds into the chase. All the valk pilot has to do is run for ~20 seconds and he is less guaranteed an escape barring unforseen circumstances.
Niki, ARF, Spence and the other Itani just point at the shape of the valkryie and go "look, it's not as good at intercepting". The relevant factors are armour, turbo thrust, weight and drain.
They are wrong. Transparent voting is transparent. Block Heads.
"The flat profile of the vulture makes up for the slightly higher turbo energy usage in most use-cases."
I ask you Niki, what the flying [profanity censored -P] does the profile of the ship have to do with its ability to intercept. Precisely [profanity censored -P] nothing is what!
You're refusing to acknowledge the distance covered during that time, TRS. The SVG has better thrust and will *catch up* to most ships during that time, bringing them into weapons range. That's the whole reason why things like the Valkyrie, SVG, etc, are used for interceptors instead of ships with lower drain, yet a high speed like the Warthog MkII and Hornet MkII.
The SVG is faster than a Vulture MkIII and can overtake and destroy one that is trying to escape, despite the SVG's higher turbo drain. The drain is the balance for the thrust.
This ship already got buffed 3 times in the last few years. It's already one of the best ships in the game. Leave it the hell alone and fix any of the myriad of other ones that sorely need improvement.
The SVG is faster than a Vulture MkIII and can overtake and destroy one that is trying to escape, despite the SVG's higher turbo drain. The drain is the balance for the thrust.
This ship already got buffed 3 times in the last few years. It's already one of the best ships in the game. Leave it the hell alone and fix any of the myriad of other ones that sorely need improvement.
"This ship already got buffed 3 times in the last few years. "
Irrelevant.
"You're refusing to acknowledge the distance covered during that time, TRS. The SVG has better thrust and will *catch up* to most ships during that time, bringing them into weapons range. That's the whole reason why things like the Valkyrie, SVG, etc, are used for interceptors instead of ships with lower drain, yet a high speed like the Warthog MkII and Hornet MkII. "
Yes, we've established that the SVG is a vector interceptor that can "come into weapons range" of a Vulture III. We've also established that it's a decent vector interceptor, that was the premise of the thread.
But with its lack of a 3rd port and with the lack of high speed it is utterly useless once it gets there. Unless it gets a 3rd port to wack on an XgX blaster, there's no way in hell its going to dish out the damage.
Every single SVG chase ends like this, your opponent simply warps out and you're sputtering 3-4 blaster shots at the wormhole that even if they hit accurately won't even kill a fleeing ship at 20%. Your Valkryie on the other hand can have a hiveposi a lawgun and an XgX, outputting about the same damage as a megapositron and spit 3 salvos of this after a decent chase.
If the SVG is even going to be considered useful at interception it needs lower drain to compensate for the lack of 3rd port. And this doesn't even have an effect on its ability to be chased down by a superior top speed/tri weapon valkryie because it can do it no problems. Spidey has no troubles with it the rest of you are just retarded if you cant.
Irrelevant.
"You're refusing to acknowledge the distance covered during that time, TRS. The SVG has better thrust and will *catch up* to most ships during that time, bringing them into weapons range. That's the whole reason why things like the Valkyrie, SVG, etc, are used for interceptors instead of ships with lower drain, yet a high speed like the Warthog MkII and Hornet MkII. "
Yes, we've established that the SVG is a vector interceptor that can "come into weapons range" of a Vulture III. We've also established that it's a decent vector interceptor, that was the premise of the thread.
But with its lack of a 3rd port and with the lack of high speed it is utterly useless once it gets there. Unless it gets a 3rd port to wack on an XgX blaster, there's no way in hell its going to dish out the damage.
Every single SVG chase ends like this, your opponent simply warps out and you're sputtering 3-4 blaster shots at the wormhole that even if they hit accurately won't even kill a fleeing ship at 20%. Your Valkryie on the other hand can have a hiveposi a lawgun and an XgX, outputting about the same damage as a megapositron and spit 3 salvos of this after a decent chase.
If the SVG is even going to be considered useful at interception it needs lower drain to compensate for the lack of 3rd port. And this doesn't even have an effect on its ability to be chased down by a superior top speed/tri weapon valkryie because it can do it no problems. Spidey has no troubles with it the rest of you are just retarded if you cant.
Wow, sounds exactly like trying to chase down fast things with an all-energy valk. Barely enough juice to land 1 or 2 shots before they jump out. Running away works in VO, huh, who woulda thunk it. Even stuff with 60/sec drain like SCPs and the 2-port Centurions can get enough distance to jump.
What do you mean by "vector interceptor?" You never did explain that on IRC or in any of the posts where you've made reference to it.
What do you mean by "vector interceptor?" You never did explain that on IRC or in any of the posts where you've made reference to it.
It's what you call it when you intercept this guy.
Once again, Pizzasgood wins the thread! :D
"Running away works in VO"
Running from interceptor valks is pratically impossible. I play on TRS and other valk-enabled characters with my tri-blaster inteceptor setup and things die, they do not escape, these are things that I would have no hope to kill in my SVG.
Vector interception VS Straight-out interception is the proficiency at attacking a player who changes his turbo direction as a strategy for escaping utilizing his acceleration more than his top speed to gain distance from the enemy. In order to catch someone doing this, high acceleration and low weight are the key factors.
Straight out interception is the opposite, catching someone who is straight out turboing with minor adjustments to get rid of any blaster fire (or even without doing so).
Valkryies are proficient at both because they have both the top speed, the tiny weight and acceleration to do this. When you put a flare on an IDF valkryie and two light blasters you can force the target to vector by using your flares on straights and then kill it when it vectors because it can't hope to outvector the valkryie. Thus you have a viable interceptor for both types of chasing in one ship.
If you compare an ultralight Serco Vulture to this setup the weight is nearly the same, but the difference in thrust/weight ratio is so marginal that the advantage of the flare launcher, the top speed and the turbo drain make it phenominally superior to the SVG in all things chasing
IDF Valk 2,900kg
Hiveposi or LENB 400kg
Sunflare 1000kg
XgX 150kg
Ultra Charge 100kg
Total: 4550kg
5.16% turbo thrust/weight ratio
SVG 3,800kg
Hiveposi or LENB 400kg
XgX 150kg
Ultra Charge 100kg
Total: 4450kg
5.84% turbo thrust/weight ratio
And that's with an extra sunflare launcher. If you just want it to vector intercept without sunflares using pure energy loadouts you can slaughter the SVG's ratio:
IDF Valk 2,900kg
Hiveposi or LENB 400kg
Hiveposi or LENB 400kg
XgX 150kg
Ultra Charge 100kg
Total: 3950kg
5.94% turbo thrust/weight ratio
That IDF valk is an absolute monster of a vector interceptor, there's nothing that can escape by vectoring you have to basically be in a hound and kick down the turbo permanently in order to escape that one and that's it.
The reason vector interception is important is because its what people do in combat, rather than what people do for instance if they're bombing a station they just gun it with a rag III and you need a hound. The hound is the undisputed champion of straight out interception (it's fair to say that it's the only ship that can really do it properly at all), but the IDF valk is hands down the king of vector interception and does the other straight-out job exceptionally well with a single sunflare.
The Serco need a viable vector interceptor as well so the enemy has to take a risk when they come in close to a combat formation that they aren't going to be able to get back out again. Currently this risk doesnt exist because there is no ship that can catch a vectoring valk, even a heavy one, and dish out enough damage to kill it before it escapes.
That's not even to mention the fact that pirates from the Serco feel like they need Itani standing to actually properly intercept. They are right, they do because the Valk does it all in one ship and it's highly configurable in the process. This thread doesn't even threaten any of those things about the Valkryie, it simply gives the SVG an edge in the vector interception game to make up for its 1 less port and heavier relative turbo thrust/weight ratio.
Running from interceptor valks is pratically impossible. I play on TRS and other valk-enabled characters with my tri-blaster inteceptor setup and things die, they do not escape, these are things that I would have no hope to kill in my SVG.
Vector interception VS Straight-out interception is the proficiency at attacking a player who changes his turbo direction as a strategy for escaping utilizing his acceleration more than his top speed to gain distance from the enemy. In order to catch someone doing this, high acceleration and low weight are the key factors.
Straight out interception is the opposite, catching someone who is straight out turboing with minor adjustments to get rid of any blaster fire (or even without doing so).
Valkryies are proficient at both because they have both the top speed, the tiny weight and acceleration to do this. When you put a flare on an IDF valkryie and two light blasters you can force the target to vector by using your flares on straights and then kill it when it vectors because it can't hope to outvector the valkryie. Thus you have a viable interceptor for both types of chasing in one ship.
If you compare an ultralight Serco Vulture to this setup the weight is nearly the same, but the difference in thrust/weight ratio is so marginal that the advantage of the flare launcher, the top speed and the turbo drain make it phenominally superior to the SVG in all things chasing
IDF Valk 2,900kg
Hiveposi or LENB 400kg
Sunflare 1000kg
XgX 150kg
Ultra Charge 100kg
Total: 4550kg
5.16% turbo thrust/weight ratio
SVG 3,800kg
Hiveposi or LENB 400kg
XgX 150kg
Ultra Charge 100kg
Total: 4450kg
5.84% turbo thrust/weight ratio
And that's with an extra sunflare launcher. If you just want it to vector intercept without sunflares using pure energy loadouts you can slaughter the SVG's ratio:
IDF Valk 2,900kg
Hiveposi or LENB 400kg
Hiveposi or LENB 400kg
XgX 150kg
Ultra Charge 100kg
Total: 3950kg
5.94% turbo thrust/weight ratio
That IDF valk is an absolute monster of a vector interceptor, there's nothing that can escape by vectoring you have to basically be in a hound and kick down the turbo permanently in order to escape that one and that's it.
The reason vector interception is important is because its what people do in combat, rather than what people do for instance if they're bombing a station they just gun it with a rag III and you need a hound. The hound is the undisputed champion of straight out interception (it's fair to say that it's the only ship that can really do it properly at all), but the IDF valk is hands down the king of vector interception and does the other straight-out job exceptionally well with a single sunflare.
The Serco need a viable vector interceptor as well so the enemy has to take a risk when they come in close to a combat formation that they aren't going to be able to get back out again. Currently this risk doesnt exist because there is no ship that can catch a vectoring valk, even a heavy one, and dish out enough damage to kill it before it escapes.
That's not even to mention the fact that pirates from the Serco feel like they need Itani standing to actually properly intercept. They are right, they do because the Valk does it all in one ship and it's highly configurable in the process. This thread doesn't even threaten any of those things about the Valkryie, it simply gives the SVG an edge in the vector interception game to make up for its 1 less port and heavier relative turbo thrust/weight ratio.
"Running from interceptor valks is practically impossible."
You can't run from an interceptor? *gasp* Because it's not like that's what interceptors do or anything
You can't run from an interceptor? *gasp* Because it's not like that's what interceptors do or anything
Also, i forgot to mention, a valkryie that just goes straight out turboing away from an SVG will basically always get away if you're on a reasonable amount of health (around 30-40%). There is just no catching it at all. I laugh hard when you [Itan] members try to vector to escape an SVG that i've specifically decked out to be lighter than a dual flare valkryie when you would easily cruise escape.
Savet knows what to do, whenever I bring my interceptor SVG out and he's in his valk he just guns it and I never catch him unless he's decided to vector.
Snk: SVG's are also an interceptor, running from them is easy. Don't make me put you in the retarded monkey cage with DE.
Savet knows what to do, whenever I bring my interceptor SVG out and he's in his valk he just guns it and I never catch him unless he's decided to vector.
Snk: SVG's are also an interceptor, running from them is easy. Don't make me put you in the retarded monkey cage with DE.
You forgot to mention distance. If i turbo straight away from you at 300m You're going to land half a battery of blaster fire on the comparatively large profile the back of an IDF Valkyrie has.
Anyways, you just posted exact numbers about how un-fucking-believably close the power to weight ratio of these ships are which further strengthens my argument that The SVG is already one of the best ships in the game and does not need to be buffed again.
You're right. It's not as good as an IDF Valkyrie. It's not supposed to be. The IDF Valk is supposed to be the pride of the Itani fleet and the best damn fighter/interceptor in the game. The fact that the SVG comes so close to it in chasing capability and does so with a razor-thin profile is proof that the devs are nice enough to try and balance things out so you're not stuck relying on normal ships in Serco space.
Where's the damn Itani equivalent to a SCP? I didn't think so...
Anyways, you just posted exact numbers about how un-fucking-believably close the power to weight ratio of these ships are which further strengthens my argument that The SVG is already one of the best ships in the game and does not need to be buffed again.
You're right. It's not as good as an IDF Valkyrie. It's not supposed to be. The IDF Valk is supposed to be the pride of the Itani fleet and the best damn fighter/interceptor in the game. The fact that the SVG comes so close to it in chasing capability and does so with a razor-thin profile is proof that the devs are nice enough to try and balance things out so you're not stuck relying on normal ships in Serco space.
Where's the damn Itani equivalent to a SCP? I didn't think so...