This isn't the only problem though. The low conversion rate is indeed causing very few noobies to enter vo, but there is also the factor that most new players go through roughly this timeline:

First month: play vo, get acquainted with the controls and plugins and stuff, get licenses to reasonable levels.

Second month: join a guild, get involved for a month, think they've played everything, quit.

Theres something missing here as most mmos can hold onto players for >2 months. As for what that is, I have no idea.

no but its the problem we're addressing in this thread, the other stuff is about recurring gameplay and the framework for recurring conflict - if you want to make a thread for that go ahead - this is about the first minute of the game

Thinking out of box... why not REVERT the Training / Nation selection stuff?

First you have to complete tutorials, with options for visual-only (no english) or written/narrated just as now, and a new alternative to skip whole tutorials and go to ALTs creation directly. But any way you choose, you have to complete the basic flight test to proceed to leave training sector.

The training/tutorial part, without character creation not nations, can be "simulated" and even unlimited offline play. While tutorials can be offline in a simulator, the basic flight test must be online, in training sector.

After your ACCOUNT have acquired his/her "wings" - flight license - player finally gets to ALT creation page.

For ALTs, make tutorial a secondary option, but default it directly to "basic flight test", what includes combat against training bots.

TL:DR:
1. NEW account must complete flight test, with option of tutorials in simulator.
2. After flight test, Nations are presented and player create ALTs
3. New ALTs default to flight test directly, with opt-in tutorials

Oh yea, and the voices/text need for the tutorial need to be OS specific -- that is, if your on an Android you will get different instructions for how to fly than if your on a computer. If there is no way to check this, then unfortunately the next best thing would be to have the tutorials say both.

It can be checked.

+1

This is a really brilliant idea. However, just don't make the combat too hard, because doing advanced combat in VO on a tablet might be real pain in the ass.

This is - kind of - extension of my "make the space less empty" suggestion.
To make space less empty:
1. Throw the player into the crowd from the beginning, as it is in the other MMO's (crowded cities)
2. Increase the random/bot traffic 50x or 100x - fold, so space is really CROWDED with pirates, traders, miners and people travelling & minding their own buisness.
3. Ship flags suggestion - better visual identification wouldn't make the space more crowded, but it would make it FEEL more crowded.
4. Automatic small window zoom view of all distant ships (I have not yet made this suggestion, it just came to me). Also - it would make space FEEL more crowded, plus add BLING-BLING factor, so people could boast & show off their new cool ships.

I know it sounds stupid, but showing off is base of all free-to-play games. In well-balanced free to play games, items bought from "item mall" don't give you any good combat bonuses. They just LOOK BETTER - and that is enough to be worth money for a lot of people.

It's not at all an extension of your other idea. Stay on topic.

1: This is the OP.
2: This has already happened.
3: Done by plugins; no need for the devs to waste time on it. Also, it emphasizes the lack of activity when there is a lack of activity, as there are no notifications.
4: What? This isn't a free to play game. This makes no sense. Why would you zoom in on other ships like that? Choice of ship is about practical ship statistics, not about getting money and "bling bling factor" for aesthetics.

I realise I only gave alloh death threat for posting numbered lists, you will all earn death threats of your own if you ruin my beautiful thread with numbered lists.

Paragraphs and no more trolling PoL (to or from!)

Tarenty, if you're going to tell him to stay on topic, you really shouldn't follow that request by addressing his points. That's just begging him to explain them right here.

PoL, if you want to address those points, please do so in another thread.

This one is about getting newbies fighting sooner in the training stage.

Good point.

OP: +1. Early combat is good, especially since combat is one of VO's greatest features.

Here's how I would do it, just spouting an idea:

A scenario sector with objectives that explain each aspect of flight as you go is a good idea. After the mechanics are explained and the newbie has a chance to fly around a little, stick them in a WTD, SVG, or IBG depending on their chosen race, and set them on some bots, then some other newbies, in small groups (3-5).

Elaboration of small groups: Allow only the FIRST character of each account (allow repetition of the objective mechanics stage) 3 lives in a small pvp scenario with the newbies from opposite sides. For UIT, pit them against eachother, claiming the opposite side is rebels? rival factions? (Can you make the opposite side look like corvus for every UIT newbie, even though they're really UIT?)

All of the sectors they jump to should not be shown on the main map, as this is actually a simulation (not really, but that's the story behind it to maintain immersion) and nothing should impact pilot statistics. When the scenarios are over, and they dock in the first station, make it appear as if they are waking up from a training simulation, and then reward them with the Basic Flight Test rewards, allowing them out into the universe.

+1 OP Good discussion.

Wow, tarrenty's little scenario puts all the elements we wanted into a believable scenario. I'm impressed. However, the problem with pitting UIT v UIT and claiming they are rebels/making them seem corvus is that if those two UIT players run into each other again (which is very likely I might add), they will be very confused as both will think the other is an enemy or something. One way to solve this would be to add a 4th (corvus) faction which I'm sure all of us greys would love, and it would balance out the "more UIT players than any other nation" thing.

Also, how about in the pvp situation we have them in groups with a small wait period at the beginning to talk strategy and get acquainted so they can explore VC and group chat stuff. I've found other games are like 10x more fun on average if your in a skype call with a friend, why not implement that for vo by default from the getgo? Also, if no one has VC they will be forced to chat to each other which is a good thing because a lot of the noobs I run into never chat at all and have completely ignored that part of the HUD for their entire time playing. So either way its a win-win. It will make things a bit annoying for people creating alts, but the up side is that even they will be entertained by talking to noobs and maybe giving them some pointers. And I'd rather have things more annoying for people making alts but also make the game more enjoyable from the getgo for a noob.

Sorry for the walls of text :p

It must have been a very long time since any of you started playing this game.

I played decent before I played vo, so I instantly switched to physics mode and flew. That should not be expected of all new players.

How about a series of fast paced equipment checks?

Let us check your flight controls pilot! Fly through the bright yellow ring! Good work! Targeting systems check! Target training drone x. Use the 'u' key. Good work pilot! Weapons check! Destroy drone x. Good work pilot! Evasion tactics check! Destroy drone y without getting hit! Opps, you got hit! Please review the "Evasion tactics mission" at the station. Return here when ready...

etc...

Let each new player move at as fast a pace as they can handle, but give them a break when they obviously do not know how to do something. Not only finding out what they need to learn, but making it painfully obvious to them that they need to learn it.

Going strait to combat without even the most basic prerequisite skill/equipment checks is stupid. A player may have to adjust their controls to pass even the first test. Please make sure that the game is operating as intended, and that the player can at least fly/aim/fire.

A vet should be able to start a new character, select the flight test mission, complete the flight test, and be headed out of sector in like 30 seconds flat (or less).

+1 DE. Far simpler and more vet-friendly, the only touchy point would be getting the pace right.

My scenario is rough and somewhat exploitable... though perhaps that scenario can be implemented as a group mission (Team Combat Training? splits the group that starts it up into two groups?)(once the PCC can do those/if the devs feel like it) for newbies on first-time characters under combat 3. The default combat bonus for killing other players would be a good boost, and perhaps fun. Though, exploitable by trial accounts. Scratch that unless I'm missing a potential solution.

The pace should be player controlled. If the player takes their ever loving time to fly through a ring, so be it! What is the rush? If a player launches, knows how to fly/aim/fire, can fly through a ring, target a bot, kill a bot, kill the next bot without getting hit, plot a course, get to jump distance, and activate, the mission should let them do it as fast as they can do it, without hitting next or any other unnecessary delays. The player should completely set the pace. Let the slow ones be slow, and the fast ones be as fast as they can demonstrate the skill and knowledge to back it up.

There is a potential solution. Just limit the number of "pvp encounters" per account (say 3), and make it a huge pain to abuse it. Currently, the trial ha can be relatively easily abused because you only have to make one account per 8 hours or 2 weeks depending on whether you can get your hand on a friend key, but an account every 3 or so battles? thats bordering on ridiculous.

In terms of vet friendly - put a skip button there. People aren't going to press the skip button if your tutorial design is worth anything - they're going to want to go right into the action because it's right there in their face screaming PLAY ME.

I did say elaborate your vision so anything goes, but I didn't like tarenty's idea cos it was lacking that OMG WOW factor. DE's sounds like Halo's introduction which is cool, but not exactly what I was thinking, even so it would work.

I was thinking like character selection screen, with the live rotating ship showing like it does in station - you pick your name and your race and then screen fades in and you're flying in space, you get immediately contextualizing radio chatter that directs you do move towards an objective and youre shown keys on the screen which indicate what the controls are, then you're told to go and attack something or do something as a part of a greater combat scenario. Obviously the bots should be programmed not to attack you until after you have basic flight controls down.

As a vet I would love a skip button for me, but as a vet I would hate a skip button for noobs, because some noobs just can not help themselves, and I get tired of hearing "how do I dock" without sarcasm.

A basic set of test could be an absolute breeze for a vet. It only has to prove that the game is running correctly, the controls are set up right, and the player can do a minimum set of actions. Do you really care if you as a vet have to launch, dock, launch, hail bot, shoot bot, set nav point, run for hills? Especially when the mission is telling you what to do next as fast as you can do it? Any vet can pass such a test so fast that it practically is a skip button. But for god's sake don't let any noob that can not pass this test out of the training sector! I do not care if it takes them hours to pass this test, pass it they must!

After passing the test, and on the way out of the sector, you could have some radio chatter "Trouble in sector x, request any assistance..." and IF they divert to there, then do it your way...

Edit: in fact, diverting to assist could be your super action scenario, and another vet shortcut...

Easy. First player on a new account? Force them to do it.
If the player sets the pace then it should be a breeze for a veteran, and not much problem at all.

I do believe the tutorial needs to bugger off of the mission system, or it'll become too limited by what the mission editor can produce.

A new interactive tutorial. I love DE's idea, and it had great merit, as this is straight, in your face, making you want to get right into it. Anything else suggests that the game is boring, which it isn't!

TRS, I agree that the first thing that a player should experience is the twitch combat, however there should be other tutorials, with the same interactivity, such as trading, mining, etc.
For example, I get tired of hearing the question "How do I mine", or "I can't mine".
Make these tutorials force you to do it right.. and perhaps, a "Help Me" button, which will repeat the tutorial, or stage they're confused at.

The tutorial is the one thing that blocks people from being immersed in the game, from minute 1. And it's sad to see these people turn away, because they got frustrated when they could have enjoyed it.

I would want to see this as a first priority for Guild, because this is one thing that is preventing them from expanding.

Oh I totally agree with other tutorials, this is about ensuring that the game gives a proper first impression of it's selling point so that people are interested enough to want to commit to learning mining etc..