Forums » Suggestions
Let me preface by saying that I was a subscriber, years and years ago. Initially for a couple of months, then later on for another couple of months.
Much has changed since then and I'll ruffle some feathers, but I'm hoping that some of what I have to say may cause new ideas or inspiration.
Since that time, I have also developed my own RTS game (my intention is not to advertise, so if you want to know what it is just google my name (without the underscore)), and have a semi unique take on things)
• It isn't fun
Oh the rage that headline must have provoked, and honestly, it should, because it's untrue... But not really.
Let me point out that saying a game isn't fun does not mean that it cannot be fun. Certainly there are many many instances where playing VO would be the most fun thing on earth. The problem is that it isn't consistent. Lets first start with the newbie experience.
The newb experience is actually not bad at all. You get this giant newb island to discover (not meant to be taken quite so literally -_-), there are missions, and combat ratings vs bots. As a beginning, this is pretty ok. It gets you off the ground at a fairly decent pace, although the bots on the missions can be frustrating.
Where this newbie experience shines, is if you have several friends experiencing it together, then it is a truly amazing experience. If you are alone, you feel it, and it really weighs things down. But, that is tempered by the fact that you're discovering new things and exploring.
My own experience was that I found ways to make wads of cash pretty quickly with not much risk and an annoying but deal-with-able amount of time sink. As a result, I got my ratings, and could do just about whatever I wanted within a week or two. I could get good ships, great guns, etc.
At this point, the game really falters. There is a lot to do, but not much of it is particularly entertaining.
To extrapolate this, lets look back to what most of us sci-fi-fly gamers are looking for. In a word, privateer. It multiple words, wing commander privateer.
That said, we don't want a clone of it, but we want that, but better! But what made privateer so good? Well, nostalgia makes everything seem better, but lets go through some of the brilliant things that were done in that game that are possible in VO without a hell of a lot of effort.
Random Encounters and chat commands to somewhat affect the outcome of those encounters. You had dirty cops, clean cops, nutzoid church members, bounty hunters, merchants, other privateers, etc.
Missions that directly or indirectly involved these random encounters.
In reality, the above are the main reasons that privateer was so much fun. It was random and chaotic, but with a semblance of order to it.
But how could any of this help VO? In my opinion, the universe is basically empty. Empty translates into boring pretty quickly. You will see other players, sure, but other than hailing each other, or occasionally getting held up, it's pretty ho - hum. VO being an MMO, the idea would be that humans would take the place of the previously mentioned NPC elements, and that is where it falls flat.
You don't have a huge base online playing at any given time. Iirc it used to be like 300 at a time playing or something like that. In a MASSIVE universe. What might help, is the introduction of random npcs. Create traffic between shipping lanes! It doesn't matter if it's bots! Cause the player to interact with these npcs. Moreover, cause the player to WANT to interact between these npcs. In VO, you have a persistent world going on, so you may very well want to have a mix of a - b traffic, and randomly spawned stuff.
For example, random spawned pirates or lunatics. Hell, you could even have the other npcs jump in on the action, such as cops ganging up on the pirates, or merchants helping ward them off. Random encounters where pirates are attacking a merchant and perhaps if you help out the merchant will give you something in return.
Now, granted... If I remember right, random bot pirates actually did spawn in grey space. That's a good start, but that's only one tiny piece of the overall puzzle.
I could belabor the point, but this is about sparking new ideas, not browbeating.
• The combat is clunky and simply isn't fun
Lots of hate over that one, I'm sure. Let me just put it this way: If your combat is something that an average gamer cannot appreciate, that is not a badge of honor. It is a very bad thing.
This is something that VO suffers from, currently. The combat is largely unrewarding unless you happen to be fairly gifted at it, which most people will not be. I remember VO being put on as a twitch space combat shooter. Well, that's nice and is attractive on the outset, but in practice, it simply isn't fun. Ships duking it out at long distances isn't that entertaining. In my own opinion, lateral thrusting is a big reason why VO combat is not fun. It changes the maneuvering in a very predictable cycle (lolcirclestrafe in one direction, change directions, roll, backroll, etc) but also complicates the movement so that aiming is extremely challenging (not in a good or rewarding way). I have always thought that space combat systems where you had normal directional controls with a slide ability were the best in terms of balancing skill with fun.
Of course most of the die hards will disagree with this, and that's ok, but remember, the people that will be playing your game are casuals, and a very small percentage are of the hard core variety. If you set your game to appeal to the 1%, that is exactly what you'll end up with. Appeal to the casual gamers first and foremost, and introduce little treats for the hardcore.
• The subscription model brings it down
Honestly, there isn't a hell of a lot that you can do about this, considering that Guild Software is built around being an MMO subscription model. The problem is that MMO subscription model is largely on the way out, as companies like ArenaNet have repeatedly proven and the emergence of f2p models.
Honestly, f2p with micro-transactions could be hugely profitable for VO, but without any fallback, you can't really just switch over and cross your fingers hoping that the cash will still keep flowing. It's a really shitty catch-22.
• VO is designed for a huge playerbase
The problem is, that's not going to happen. Not anytime soon. Hopefully over a period of time it will happen, but I've been watching this game for 5 years or so (iirc) and I've seen more or less stagnation. Old players leave because .. boring (sorry, no other way to put it :-( ), and new blood comes in and fills the gaps temporarily and the cycle repeats over and over again. Simply put, your long term retention ratio sucks (with the exception of some particularly dedicated folks).
So you've got this huge universe, and it's practically devoid of life. Were I you, I would populate it with bots, and give those bots goals and agendas. If bots have the ability to affect the world around them, knowingly or not, you have a living and breathing universe, and in turn, that affects players. For example, an npc merchant could be carrying a load of cargo and if delivered, that cargo would cause prices of various items to rise or fall. This might be intersected with whether or not said merchant survives encounters with pirates, mercenaries, etc.
I know you have some minor systems like this already in place on a small scale, but I'm thinking on a much larger scale.
• Soundtrack
Guys, the VO music is amazing at first. But you have 3 songs, and the repeat over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ov...
For the love of god, please come up with a decent soundtrack. If a tiny free indie game like mine can come up with a solid 20 tracks, I know that you guys can do at least as good as that. There are plenty of indie artists that would allow you to include their music for free, or at very minor cost. Hell if you agreed to publicize their music in some fashion or another, they would probably allow it free and clear. There are tons of options in this department.
• Sound effects
To put it bluntly, the sound effects in VO are awful. I would go so far as to say horribad. These are sound effects that may have been adequate (and that's putting it nicely) 10 years ago, but they are subpar on every level. Hell, hire me to do them for you. I am, after all, a sound engineer (in addition to a lot of other things). Or even better yet, dip into my game's source code and steal sounds out of it. They are free for use (and the svn is open on google code). Please, for the love of god, take them!
Sound effects are the lifeblood of your game. Your visual effects are stunning, amazing, brilliant and a zillion other compliments combined. I LOVE VO's visual effects, but your sound effects are terrible.
• UI (in cockpit and station)
Simply put, it's ugly. It's also quite functional, but it's freaking ugly. I know they can be changed, but that's a crap argument. The default UI is the one that matters the most and it is also the one that should at all times look the best. I'm sure there are artists here, and I'm also sure that they would be perfectly willing to share their designs with you.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I imagine that this will probably get a lot of hate and trolling, and that's ok. No biggie. I have been watching this game for a long time and will continue to do so, and I want desperately for it to succeed on a large scale, but I believe that you developers have lost sight of the things that really matter the most. If I might pluck a string in your brains, instead of thinking about the universe as a whole, narrow your thoughts down to a single sector and expand outward, instead of from the outside in. Perhaps it may help provide perspective.
As a 1 man dev machine, I know first hand how difficult it is. 4 people managing such a massive game must be nuts and I commend you on it.
Hopefully this has been helpful, and more hopefully, it will help lend some perspective to Guild. At the very least, I can say that I tried. Sorry if I made anyone butthurt, but I am an average gamer. I love sci-fi. I love space sims. I am very much your target audience.
Anyway, Best wishes to VO and Guild (especially on the kickstarter! I will definitely try to publicize it as much as I can!)
Much has changed since then and I'll ruffle some feathers, but I'm hoping that some of what I have to say may cause new ideas or inspiration.
Since that time, I have also developed my own RTS game (my intention is not to advertise, so if you want to know what it is just google my name (without the underscore)), and have a semi unique take on things)
• It isn't fun
Oh the rage that headline must have provoked, and honestly, it should, because it's untrue... But not really.
Let me point out that saying a game isn't fun does not mean that it cannot be fun. Certainly there are many many instances where playing VO would be the most fun thing on earth. The problem is that it isn't consistent. Lets first start with the newbie experience.
The newb experience is actually not bad at all. You get this giant newb island to discover (not meant to be taken quite so literally -_-), there are missions, and combat ratings vs bots. As a beginning, this is pretty ok. It gets you off the ground at a fairly decent pace, although the bots on the missions can be frustrating.
Where this newbie experience shines, is if you have several friends experiencing it together, then it is a truly amazing experience. If you are alone, you feel it, and it really weighs things down. But, that is tempered by the fact that you're discovering new things and exploring.
My own experience was that I found ways to make wads of cash pretty quickly with not much risk and an annoying but deal-with-able amount of time sink. As a result, I got my ratings, and could do just about whatever I wanted within a week or two. I could get good ships, great guns, etc.
At this point, the game really falters. There is a lot to do, but not much of it is particularly entertaining.
To extrapolate this, lets look back to what most of us sci-fi-fly gamers are looking for. In a word, privateer. It multiple words, wing commander privateer.
That said, we don't want a clone of it, but we want that, but better! But what made privateer so good? Well, nostalgia makes everything seem better, but lets go through some of the brilliant things that were done in that game that are possible in VO without a hell of a lot of effort.
Random Encounters and chat commands to somewhat affect the outcome of those encounters. You had dirty cops, clean cops, nutzoid church members, bounty hunters, merchants, other privateers, etc.
Missions that directly or indirectly involved these random encounters.
In reality, the above are the main reasons that privateer was so much fun. It was random and chaotic, but with a semblance of order to it.
But how could any of this help VO? In my opinion, the universe is basically empty. Empty translates into boring pretty quickly. You will see other players, sure, but other than hailing each other, or occasionally getting held up, it's pretty ho - hum. VO being an MMO, the idea would be that humans would take the place of the previously mentioned NPC elements, and that is where it falls flat.
You don't have a huge base online playing at any given time. Iirc it used to be like 300 at a time playing or something like that. In a MASSIVE universe. What might help, is the introduction of random npcs. Create traffic between shipping lanes! It doesn't matter if it's bots! Cause the player to interact with these npcs. Moreover, cause the player to WANT to interact between these npcs. In VO, you have a persistent world going on, so you may very well want to have a mix of a - b traffic, and randomly spawned stuff.
For example, random spawned pirates or lunatics. Hell, you could even have the other npcs jump in on the action, such as cops ganging up on the pirates, or merchants helping ward them off. Random encounters where pirates are attacking a merchant and perhaps if you help out the merchant will give you something in return.
Now, granted... If I remember right, random bot pirates actually did spawn in grey space. That's a good start, but that's only one tiny piece of the overall puzzle.
I could belabor the point, but this is about sparking new ideas, not browbeating.
• The combat is clunky and simply isn't fun
Lots of hate over that one, I'm sure. Let me just put it this way: If your combat is something that an average gamer cannot appreciate, that is not a badge of honor. It is a very bad thing.
This is something that VO suffers from, currently. The combat is largely unrewarding unless you happen to be fairly gifted at it, which most people will not be. I remember VO being put on as a twitch space combat shooter. Well, that's nice and is attractive on the outset, but in practice, it simply isn't fun. Ships duking it out at long distances isn't that entertaining. In my own opinion, lateral thrusting is a big reason why VO combat is not fun. It changes the maneuvering in a very predictable cycle (lolcirclestrafe in one direction, change directions, roll, backroll, etc) but also complicates the movement so that aiming is extremely challenging (not in a good or rewarding way). I have always thought that space combat systems where you had normal directional controls with a slide ability were the best in terms of balancing skill with fun.
Of course most of the die hards will disagree with this, and that's ok, but remember, the people that will be playing your game are casuals, and a very small percentage are of the hard core variety. If you set your game to appeal to the 1%, that is exactly what you'll end up with. Appeal to the casual gamers first and foremost, and introduce little treats for the hardcore.
• The subscription model brings it down
Honestly, there isn't a hell of a lot that you can do about this, considering that Guild Software is built around being an MMO subscription model. The problem is that MMO subscription model is largely on the way out, as companies like ArenaNet have repeatedly proven and the emergence of f2p models.
Honestly, f2p with micro-transactions could be hugely profitable for VO, but without any fallback, you can't really just switch over and cross your fingers hoping that the cash will still keep flowing. It's a really shitty catch-22.
• VO is designed for a huge playerbase
The problem is, that's not going to happen. Not anytime soon. Hopefully over a period of time it will happen, but I've been watching this game for 5 years or so (iirc) and I've seen more or less stagnation. Old players leave because .. boring (sorry, no other way to put it :-( ), and new blood comes in and fills the gaps temporarily and the cycle repeats over and over again. Simply put, your long term retention ratio sucks (with the exception of some particularly dedicated folks).
So you've got this huge universe, and it's practically devoid of life. Were I you, I would populate it with bots, and give those bots goals and agendas. If bots have the ability to affect the world around them, knowingly or not, you have a living and breathing universe, and in turn, that affects players. For example, an npc merchant could be carrying a load of cargo and if delivered, that cargo would cause prices of various items to rise or fall. This might be intersected with whether or not said merchant survives encounters with pirates, mercenaries, etc.
I know you have some minor systems like this already in place on a small scale, but I'm thinking on a much larger scale.
• Soundtrack
Guys, the VO music is amazing at first. But you have 3 songs, and the repeat over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ov...
For the love of god, please come up with a decent soundtrack. If a tiny free indie game like mine can come up with a solid 20 tracks, I know that you guys can do at least as good as that. There are plenty of indie artists that would allow you to include their music for free, or at very minor cost. Hell if you agreed to publicize their music in some fashion or another, they would probably allow it free and clear. There are tons of options in this department.
• Sound effects
To put it bluntly, the sound effects in VO are awful. I would go so far as to say horribad. These are sound effects that may have been adequate (and that's putting it nicely) 10 years ago, but they are subpar on every level. Hell, hire me to do them for you. I am, after all, a sound engineer (in addition to a lot of other things). Or even better yet, dip into my game's source code and steal sounds out of it. They are free for use (and the svn is open on google code). Please, for the love of god, take them!
Sound effects are the lifeblood of your game. Your visual effects are stunning, amazing, brilliant and a zillion other compliments combined. I LOVE VO's visual effects, but your sound effects are terrible.
• UI (in cockpit and station)
Simply put, it's ugly. It's also quite functional, but it's freaking ugly. I know they can be changed, but that's a crap argument. The default UI is the one that matters the most and it is also the one that should at all times look the best. I'm sure there are artists here, and I'm also sure that they would be perfectly willing to share their designs with you.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I imagine that this will probably get a lot of hate and trolling, and that's ok. No biggie. I have been watching this game for a long time and will continue to do so, and I want desperately for it to succeed on a large scale, but I believe that you developers have lost sight of the things that really matter the most. If I might pluck a string in your brains, instead of thinking about the universe as a whole, narrow your thoughts down to a single sector and expand outward, instead of from the outside in. Perhaps it may help provide perspective.
As a 1 man dev machine, I know first hand how difficult it is. 4 people managing such a massive game must be nuts and I commend you on it.
Hopefully this has been helpful, and more hopefully, it will help lend some perspective to Guild. At the very least, I can say that I tried. Sorry if I made anyone butthurt, but I am an average gamer. I love sci-fi. I love space sims. I am very much your target audience.
Anyway, Best wishes to VO and Guild (especially on the kickstarter! I will definitely try to publicize it as much as I can!)
I want to say tl;dr but it just doesn't do it justice. This is pure rambling. Maybe if you didn't spend so many words rambling about how flamed your post is going to get, it wouldn't get flamed at all?
Bullet points with short sentences afterwards to summarise your point if you want anybody at all to read the post. Most of the stuff you wrote about I've already complained about at length and all of it looks scheduled to be fixed in version 1.9
Bullet points with short sentences afterwards to summarise your point if you want anybody at all to read the post. Most of the stuff you wrote about I've already complained about at length and all of it looks scheduled to be fixed in version 1.9
What's your game? I want to steal its sound effects.
@slime73, I didn't make this post as a means of backdoor promotion. Just google my name. You'll find it quickly.
@theredspy, no, it isn't. How are you going to make an informed post about what I did or didn't say when you didn't even read it?
@theredspy, no, it isn't. How are you going to make an informed post about what I did or didn't say when you didn't even read it?
@Forboding_Angel
You are completely correct on almost all points.
Another thing.
The worst thing about Vendetta is that on occasions a screen appears in the game where it says "Have a suggestion ? Come to the forums and share it !"
That is completely useless, as nobody here (including the devs) will listen to you. You will get trolled and laughed upon, and every idea of yours will be dismissed as outright idiotic.
I have had multiple ideas which could make this game great, EVEN the devs liked some of them, and some of them were EVEN extremely easy to implement (like blinking "active" sectors which could bring more people together). Some of the ideas were very similiar to yours (such as increasing randomness making VO less dull). None of them ever got to the game.
Apparently, the only people that the devs listen to are the hardcore players. But the hardcore players are too much get used to the current form of the game which makes them completely BLIND so that they cannot see what makes todays games successful.
This game is dying and nothing can change that in its current situation.
You are completely correct on almost all points.
Another thing.
The worst thing about Vendetta is that on occasions a screen appears in the game where it says "Have a suggestion ? Come to the forums and share it !"
That is completely useless, as nobody here (including the devs) will listen to you. You will get trolled and laughed upon, and every idea of yours will be dismissed as outright idiotic.
I have had multiple ideas which could make this game great, EVEN the devs liked some of them, and some of them were EVEN extremely easy to implement (like blinking "active" sectors which could bring more people together). Some of the ideas were very similiar to yours (such as increasing randomness making VO less dull). None of them ever got to the game.
Apparently, the only people that the devs listen to are the hardcore players. But the hardcore players are too much get used to the current form of the game which makes them completely BLIND so that they cannot see what makes todays games successful.
This game is dying and nothing can change that in its current situation.
after a few lines all I was hearing was bah bah bah bah
@Forboding_Angel if you don't like the game then don't play it, no one is forcing you
@PaladinOfLancelot so if they don't use your ideas, then the game must suck because I know what others want?
@Forboding_Angel if you don't like the game then don't play it, no one is forcing you
@PaladinOfLancelot so if they don't use your ideas, then the game must suck because I know what others want?
You're blind to see what we have here already, you idiot, POL.
We have a polished game, which just needs VIABLE content upgrades.
Your suggestions were not only un viable, but unnecessary.
Sorry you took it so hard.
We have a polished game, which just needs VIABLE content upgrades.
Your suggestions were not only un viable, but unnecessary.
Sorry you took it so hard.
I've had dozens of my suggestions put into game over the last 10 years
I believe that sentence alone crushes 2 points
I believe that sentence alone crushes 2 points
The devs have put in quite a few of the ones I suggested too, and many others. I've only been around for 2 years.
Also, lolin' hard the first thing that came up in Google. http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26706
Also, lolin' hard the first thing that came up in Google. http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26706
"TGFT doesn't listen to your suggestions, your suggestions listen to TGFT! Look I'm Azurea and you're all wrong about TGFT and VO!"
Embarrassing
@Forboding_Angel I did read the post, and I've suggested those things in the past except for the specifics about combat reform.
PaladinofLancelot is not correct when it comes to the attention of the developers, but he is right about the veteran players. The established veterans of VO are arrogant, superior and downright condescending... so basically Kierky and Minen, two TGFT that represent the aggregate attitude of their organisation so perfectly above.
I got the shits with it too, but I like the developers and I decided to stick with the game anyway. That's why I made my own little community at SercoDominion.org where we regularly blow them up in-game!
Embarrassing
@Forboding_Angel I did read the post, and I've suggested those things in the past except for the specifics about combat reform.
PaladinofLancelot is not correct when it comes to the attention of the developers, but he is right about the veteran players. The established veterans of VO are arrogant, superior and downright condescending... so basically Kierky and Minen, two TGFT that represent the aggregate attitude of their organisation so perfectly above.
I got the shits with it too, but I like the developers and I decided to stick with the game anyway. That's why I made my own little community at SercoDominion.org where we regularly blow them up in-game!
I gave up on reading your post.
I gave up on finding your game.
I am a critique of this game, but frankly, you have got to learn to how to abbreviate your commentary.
I did find a youtube of your game. And really? The voice speed need to be at least twice as fast! I gave up on the vid too. drove me nuts!
good luck, get lost.
I gave up on finding your game.
I am a critique of this game, but frankly, you have got to learn to how to abbreviate your commentary.
I did find a youtube of your game. And really? The voice speed need to be at least twice as fast! I gave up on the vid too. drove me nuts!
good luck, get lost.
@Kierky
###We have a polished game, which just needs VIABLE content upgrades.
Your suggestions were not only un viable, but unnecessary.###
You have no idea what you are babbling about.
This game under my direction would have 20 times as many players WITHOUT any loss of features so much liked by the "hardcore team". And I wouldn't even have to make Android version.
If some people could just shut up for a minute and actually understand what exactly was I proposing, there would be one more great game in the universe.
But who cares, this game is lost anyway. And you together with it.
###We have a polished game, which just needs VIABLE content upgrades.
Your suggestions were not only un viable, but unnecessary.###
You have no idea what you are babbling about.
This game under my direction would have 20 times as many players WITHOUT any loss of features so much liked by the "hardcore team". And I wouldn't even have to make Android version.
If some people could just shut up for a minute and actually understand what exactly was I proposing, there would be one more great game in the universe.
But who cares, this game is lost anyway. And you together with it.
The combat of the game is entirely what you make of it. You don't have to do any of the things you mentioned to fight. I'm not sure anyone is gifted at combat either, I know I'm certainly not "naturally blessed to play vo" I had to die hundreds of times to figure out what I was doing wrong. The combat system itself is not inherently wrong, You're free to fight how you want to in this game and if you fight boring then yeah it sucks, but you can make it exciting. Again, entirely what you make of it.
For instance, I'm probably pretty well known for flying the weirdest setups. It makes things especially interesting, even while I tolerate all the ignorants and their "blah blah that doesn't work". Group combat is also interesting, and that is also what you make of it. If you fly around solo and don't bother joining a guild or group activities or even starting group activities yourself well.. don't expect much. The combat in vo *because* it is twitch based offers a lot of complexity that can in fact be learned and interestingly so. If you don't like the combat, then the game simply isn't for you.
For instance, I'm probably pretty well known for flying the weirdest setups. It makes things especially interesting, even while I tolerate all the ignorants and their "blah blah that doesn't work". Group combat is also interesting, and that is also what you make of it. If you fly around solo and don't bother joining a guild or group activities or even starting group activities yourself well.. don't expect much. The combat in vo *because* it is twitch based offers a lot of complexity that can in fact be learned and interestingly so. If you don't like the combat, then the game simply isn't for you.
Can I play some of your games, PaladinOfLancelot? They must be amazing.
@ TRS/ESP basically Kierky and Minen, two TGFT
NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT TGFT!!!! get it through your fr4ikken brain !!!!!!!!
NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT TGFT!!!! get it through your fr4ikken brain !!!!!!!!
Thanks to arseholery pride and douchebaggery by Foreboding Angel who saw the good of his Pride as more important than the good of the community, Shard has been discontinued.
lol
Paladin: Your suggestions were not in tune with the community here, and the community here doesn't react kindly to suggestions that are different from the way they want to see things. However, trolling these forums in "retaliation" doesn't help us or you.
Foreboding Angel: I read your major points, but like the others have said, your article was neither persuasive enough nor captivating enough for me to read through it all. Your opinions appear to be the viewpoint of someone that has not played in a long time, and stem from a deep well of ignorance. While you may mean well, making this thread on the VO forums during the Kickstarter campaign is nothing short of malevolent.
lol
Paladin: Your suggestions were not in tune with the community here, and the community here doesn't react kindly to suggestions that are different from the way they want to see things. However, trolling these forums in "retaliation" doesn't help us or you.
Foreboding Angel: I read your major points, but like the others have said, your article was neither persuasive enough nor captivating enough for me to read through it all. Your opinions appear to be the viewpoint of someone that has not played in a long time, and stem from a deep well of ignorance. While you may mean well, making this thread on the VO forums during the Kickstarter campaign is nothing short of malevolent.
@tarenty
###Your suggestions were not in tune with the community here###
So it seems that the rest of the world is so totally not in sync with the community here.
Or the other way around.
###However, trolling these forums in "retaliation" doesn't help us or you.###
Correct.
However my previous post wasn't trolling - it was serious.
###Your suggestions were not in tune with the community here###
So it seems that the rest of the world is so totally not in sync with the community here.
Or the other way around.
###However, trolling these forums in "retaliation" doesn't help us or you.###
Correct.
However my previous post wasn't trolling - it was serious.
POL: I made a suggestion just last week, and it was implemented over the weekend. So whatever dude.
Forboding_Angel: The combat model comments and the f2p comments I disagree with. I've argued enough about why I dislike f2p lately, so I'll skip on that one for now. The combat mode deserves comment: Not all games are for everybody. Some people don't like chess. Some people don't like football. Some people don't like candyland. Some don't like nethack. They can play other games. The lowest common denominator among humans is poop. Games should not target the lowest common denominator. They should pick out a more specific subset of people to target, so that those people can have fun instead of a mediocre experience. VO targets those who like VO's type of combat. Perhaps that restricts the playerbase. Tough. Some people want this kind of combat, and we have a right to have a game that provides it. And that part of VO is not going to change - it's too central to the Dev's vision for the game. If that means we'll never have an EVE sized playerbase, so be it.
I do agree that there isn't a lot to do that is actually interesting. The devs are going to be working on that. I agree we need some more variety in the NPCs as well. We do have NPCs trading between stations, but we don't have NPC pirates anymore. There used to be a long time ago, but they were troublesome and got removed, and the devs haven't gotten around to putting them back - they apparently do intend to eventually though.
I pretty much completely agree about the soundtrack. It's very nice at first, but very repetitive. I think there are actually around 16 songs, but they're divided by faction. So if you stay within Itani space, for example, you'll only ever hear a few of them.
I've never had an issue with the sound effects, other than one bug they used to have in the turbo effect's looping. Then again, I'm not a sound engineer, so I'm probably a lot less sensitive to that sort of thing.
I agree on the UI.
As for being designed for a huge playerbase, the game is a bit bigger than it needs to be at the moment, but not by a lot, and we will grow into what we have. The devs want to make the universe a lot bigger eventually, but I think we'll need a lot of growth for that to actually be a good idea. I don't see any need to reduce what we have now though.
Forboding_Angel: The combat model comments and the f2p comments I disagree with. I've argued enough about why I dislike f2p lately, so I'll skip on that one for now. The combat mode deserves comment: Not all games are for everybody. Some people don't like chess. Some people don't like football. Some people don't like candyland. Some don't like nethack. They can play other games. The lowest common denominator among humans is poop. Games should not target the lowest common denominator. They should pick out a more specific subset of people to target, so that those people can have fun instead of a mediocre experience. VO targets those who like VO's type of combat. Perhaps that restricts the playerbase. Tough. Some people want this kind of combat, and we have a right to have a game that provides it. And that part of VO is not going to change - it's too central to the Dev's vision for the game. If that means we'll never have an EVE sized playerbase, so be it.
I do agree that there isn't a lot to do that is actually interesting. The devs are going to be working on that. I agree we need some more variety in the NPCs as well. We do have NPCs trading between stations, but we don't have NPC pirates anymore. There used to be a long time ago, but they were troublesome and got removed, and the devs haven't gotten around to putting them back - they apparently do intend to eventually though.
I pretty much completely agree about the soundtrack. It's very nice at first, but very repetitive. I think there are actually around 16 songs, but they're divided by faction. So if you stay within Itani space, for example, you'll only ever hear a few of them.
I've never had an issue with the sound effects, other than one bug they used to have in the turbo effect's looping. Then again, I'm not a sound engineer, so I'm probably a lot less sensitive to that sort of thing.
I agree on the UI.
As for being designed for a huge playerbase, the game is a bit bigger than it needs to be at the moment, but not by a lot, and we will grow into what we have. The devs want to make the universe a lot bigger eventually, but I think we'll need a lot of growth for that to actually be a good idea. I don't see any need to reduce what we have now though.
I just wanted to comment on the notion that there is nothing to do in the game. One of the points of sandbox games is that nobody is going to take you by the hand and tell you step by step what to do. If you stop thinking in terms of getting the highest score or winning and start thinking more in terms of activities and role-play plenty of options start opening up.
For example we all know how to game the economy to make money, but instead if you add a bit of role play you start getting options. Off the top of my head I can think of a few examples;
1) Become a Bootlegger by only trading Deneb Rum and Serco Ale,
2) Become an Arms dealer and only trade arms,
3) Become a Courier and only do special delivery missions in a fast ship.
As far as mining goes add some challenge to the task to make it more difficult. Some quick ways to do this;
1) mine in sectors with hostile bots,
2) mine in busy sectors where people PVP (mining in Sedina B8 is sometimes amusing.),
3) make a game of the mining missions, try to complete all mining missions at a station before the first mission you took is available again.
For combat I admit I am less able to speak to this aspect but a few thoughts would be;
1) try to capture one of the cap stations,
2) choose a pirate or ant-pirate role,
3) frequently announce your position on 100.
As for the NPC characters you mention (dirty cops, clean cops, nutzoid church members, bounty hunters, merchants, other privateers, etc.) while there may not be a NPC to match what you want you have plenty of alts to play with and can easily form guilds. Just using some of your examples you could add to everyones gameplay by choosing some of these roles.
1) Make a character and maybe a guild based around a cult of some sort,
2) Play a dirty cop character, only fly station guard ships, shake down other players etc,
3) We already have a system for becoming a bounty hunter, merchant etc.
As far as finding players, if you pay attention to chat and look at the map you will notice the choke points where players end up most often. Hang out in these areas and you will run into players.
If you stop thinking of the game as something to beat or win and start thinking in terms of activities to be enjoyed I think you will find the game more enjoyable. Anyway that is my 2 cents worth.
For example we all know how to game the economy to make money, but instead if you add a bit of role play you start getting options. Off the top of my head I can think of a few examples;
1) Become a Bootlegger by only trading Deneb Rum and Serco Ale,
2) Become an Arms dealer and only trade arms,
3) Become a Courier and only do special delivery missions in a fast ship.
As far as mining goes add some challenge to the task to make it more difficult. Some quick ways to do this;
1) mine in sectors with hostile bots,
2) mine in busy sectors where people PVP (mining in Sedina B8 is sometimes amusing.),
3) make a game of the mining missions, try to complete all mining missions at a station before the first mission you took is available again.
For combat I admit I am less able to speak to this aspect but a few thoughts would be;
1) try to capture one of the cap stations,
2) choose a pirate or ant-pirate role,
3) frequently announce your position on 100.
As for the NPC characters you mention (dirty cops, clean cops, nutzoid church members, bounty hunters, merchants, other privateers, etc.) while there may not be a NPC to match what you want you have plenty of alts to play with and can easily form guilds. Just using some of your examples you could add to everyones gameplay by choosing some of these roles.
1) Make a character and maybe a guild based around a cult of some sort,
2) Play a dirty cop character, only fly station guard ships, shake down other players etc,
3) We already have a system for becoming a bounty hunter, merchant etc.
As far as finding players, if you pay attention to chat and look at the map you will notice the choke points where players end up most often. Hang out in these areas and you will run into players.
If you stop thinking of the game as something to beat or win and start thinking in terms of activities to be enjoyed I think you will find the game more enjoyable. Anyway that is my 2 cents worth.
What I want is to steal other people's capships, and then use those capships to invade Azek or Jallik or Initros, raid their stations, steal a bunch of valuable loot from the station inventories, and then flee back to greyspace where i would sell that loot for lots of money, which I'd then use to hire other players for various jobs (mainly weapon and item item procurement) and to host contests and stuff, and eventually to build (or possibly steal) a mobile pirate base once I had enough minions to defend it at all times of the day. The pirate base would host a player-run black market.
The game does not allow stealing other people's ships, nor even transferring ship control.
The game does not allow stealing items from stations.
The game does not allow building stations.
The game does not allow mobile stations (or alternately, setting up shops inside a capital ship).
The game does not allow player-run shops. (You can trade with players, but that's all manual.)
Sure, I could just "pretend" all that exists. But if I were going to do that, why would I even bother with VO at all? Might as well just create a roleplaying channel on IRC and do everything with 100% pretend.
Vendetta is a sandbox game, but it doesn't have enough sand. (Of course, that is always the case with any sandbox. Other than perhaps an outright beach or something - but then, you still want lots of shovels and buckets and tonka trucks as well....)
The game does not allow stealing other people's ships, nor even transferring ship control.
The game does not allow stealing items from stations.
The game does not allow building stations.
The game does not allow mobile stations (or alternately, setting up shops inside a capital ship).
The game does not allow player-run shops. (You can trade with players, but that's all manual.)
Sure, I could just "pretend" all that exists. But if I were going to do that, why would I even bother with VO at all? Might as well just create a roleplaying channel on IRC and do everything with 100% pretend.
Vendetta is a sandbox game, but it doesn't have enough sand. (Of course, that is always the case with any sandbox. Other than perhaps an outright beach or something - but then, you still want lots of shovels and buckets and tonka trucks as well....)