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oh fer christ sake you traders are lucky you even get faction protection at stations in grey space. having so many safe spots to jump to in grey is the biggest load of bs in the game.
First of all Earthshine and Phaserlight, penalties are much harsher in Nation space than they are with minor factions, which is probably the reason for the discrepancy between your experiences. When I start from middle Admired I can usually kill somebody two or three times in XX space before I reach Disliked. When I kill somebody in UIT space, on the other hand, one kill is enough to drop me to Disliked, and sometimes it is worse (I assume those times I only barely had admired, vs. high admired the other times). I don't pay enough attention to my faction to provide actual numbers though.
Secondly, Earthshine is mostly correct about repairing factions in Grey. Every minor faction in Grey except Aeolus desires Consumer Robotics. That makes things very simple. I typically maintain stockpiles of a few hundred units of robots in Latos and Odia which I use to repair my standings by simply taking the proc mission, undocking, docking, repeat. It does take more than just a couple missions though. Two moth-loads per kill would probably be a good estimate of the total volume needed (assuming you only want bare minimum Admired) - I've been meaning to actually pay attention and get an accurate average, but I keep forgetting. Anyway, once in a while you get lucky and get a mission asking for 50+ robots. Most only ask for about 10. So it can take half a dozen missions to repair the standing, but only a few actual trips to procure the goods if you know what you're doing and prepare in advance.
Nations are similarly predictable. I don't remember for sure, but I believe it was plasteel that I used to repair my UIT standing on the rare occasions I bothered. I'd just home at the TPG station in Azek that sold it, cart an XC over to Arta, dump it, grab a bus, /explode back to Azek, and repeat. Build up a big stockpile. Then use one of those XC's and do the mission-undock-dock dance in Arta for ten minutes. The slow part is first botting enough to get from Hated to Disliked, and then building up the stockpile.
I don't fix my UIT standing frequently enough to remember how many loads it takes to repair, but I'm pretty sure it takes significantly more work to repair than the Grey factions. Maybe there is a better route going from Azek or Arta over to Verasi or from Itani space down to Verasi. I don't fix my UIT often enough to bother looking. I prefer to just stay KOS most of the time. I only fix it like once a year as sort of a vacation or something, and it usually only lasts a week or two before I slip and start killing people again.
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"As for your claims that the standing tanking from ramming doesn't happen, the 8-10 hours I spent getting my XX back to PoS this last week would like to disagree with you."
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/25724
Quote from Incarnate:
"In addition to the above, another change should be mentioned that was accidentally left out of a previous patch log. We altered PvP collision damage to do only a fraction of the damage it did previously. Thus, when player ships ram other player ships, it does less damage than when they ram stations or NPCs. This was done to help alleviate a certain exploitative tactic of PvP killing designed to avoid faction loss in monitored or guarded space. The lack of faction loss for collision deaths was itself a previous work-around for a much older exploitative tactic where players could get others to lose their faction by suiciding themselves against their enemies."
Note that the quoted post was made nine months ago, and the nerfing of collision damage shortly before that. I don't know when the removal of collision penalties was made, but it was a long time before then. So clearly there are no penalties for ram-kills.
You claim that isn't the case, that there are penalties for ram-kills.
Maybe the devs reverted that older change for some reason and never told us (which would be astoundingly stupid of them, considering they know we would exploit it since we've discussed that very topic on the forum). Or maybe you are somehow mistaken about the events that lost you your standing.
I intend to set up a separate trial account or something on my other monitor and test this myself, because if it did get reverted then it is a bug it needs to be identified and fixed.
But it's much more likely that you are simply lying.
Secondly, Earthshine is mostly correct about repairing factions in Grey. Every minor faction in Grey except Aeolus desires Consumer Robotics. That makes things very simple. I typically maintain stockpiles of a few hundred units of robots in Latos and Odia which I use to repair my standings by simply taking the proc mission, undocking, docking, repeat. It does take more than just a couple missions though. Two moth-loads per kill would probably be a good estimate of the total volume needed (assuming you only want bare minimum Admired) - I've been meaning to actually pay attention and get an accurate average, but I keep forgetting. Anyway, once in a while you get lucky and get a mission asking for 50+ robots. Most only ask for about 10. So it can take half a dozen missions to repair the standing, but only a few actual trips to procure the goods if you know what you're doing and prepare in advance.
Nations are similarly predictable. I don't remember for sure, but I believe it was plasteel that I used to repair my UIT standing on the rare occasions I bothered. I'd just home at the TPG station in Azek that sold it, cart an XC over to Arta, dump it, grab a bus, /explode back to Azek, and repeat. Build up a big stockpile. Then use one of those XC's and do the mission-undock-dock dance in Arta for ten minutes. The slow part is first botting enough to get from Hated to Disliked, and then building up the stockpile.
I don't fix my UIT standing frequently enough to remember how many loads it takes to repair, but I'm pretty sure it takes significantly more work to repair than the Grey factions. Maybe there is a better route going from Azek or Arta over to Verasi or from Itani space down to Verasi. I don't fix my UIT often enough to bother looking. I prefer to just stay KOS most of the time. I only fix it like once a year as sort of a vacation or something, and it usually only lasts a week or two before I slip and start killing people again.
------
"As for your claims that the standing tanking from ramming doesn't happen, the 8-10 hours I spent getting my XX back to PoS this last week would like to disagree with you."
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/25724
Quote from Incarnate:
"In addition to the above, another change should be mentioned that was accidentally left out of a previous patch log. We altered PvP collision damage to do only a fraction of the damage it did previously. Thus, when player ships ram other player ships, it does less damage than when they ram stations or NPCs. This was done to help alleviate a certain exploitative tactic of PvP killing designed to avoid faction loss in monitored or guarded space. The lack of faction loss for collision deaths was itself a previous work-around for a much older exploitative tactic where players could get others to lose their faction by suiciding themselves against their enemies."
Note that the quoted post was made nine months ago, and the nerfing of collision damage shortly before that. I don't know when the removal of collision penalties was made, but it was a long time before then. So clearly there are no penalties for ram-kills.
You claim that isn't the case, that there are penalties for ram-kills.
Maybe the devs reverted that older change for some reason and never told us (which would be astoundingly stupid of them, considering they know we would exploit it since we've discussed that very topic on the forum). Or maybe you are somehow mistaken about the events that lost you your standing.
I intend to set up a separate trial account or something on my other monitor and test this myself, because if it did get reverted then it is a bug it needs to be identified and fixed.
But it's much more likely that you are simply lying.
ITT: peytros is still buttmad that exploiting the system is harder than just role-playing a pirate properly and letting everyone hate you.
And Pizza, the XX incident was a while ago, I just didn't have a chance to fix it until now because I've been away from the game so much. I'm pretty sure it was this year, though.
In either case, though, a lot of 'pirates' have been attempting the ramming tactic lately, regardless of their specific intended outcome. Furthermore, the point still stands that it should not be so easy for them to harass other players in places where the other players can't fight back for fear of losing their standing. It doesn't make sense that the rats should be able to have good standing with most of these factions in the first place, especially UIT. The standing system needs to be overhauled to address this somehow.
And Pizza, the XX incident was a while ago, I just didn't have a chance to fix it until now because I've been away from the game so much. I'm pretty sure it was this year, though.
In either case, though, a lot of 'pirates' have been attempting the ramming tactic lately, regardless of their specific intended outcome. Furthermore, the point still stands that it should not be so easy for them to harass other players in places where the other players can't fight back for fear of losing their standing. It doesn't make sense that the rats should be able to have good standing with most of these factions in the first place, especially UIT. The standing system needs to be overhauled to address this somehow.
No problem. Make UIT and all factions only found in Gray space mutually exclusive. Do the same for the Serco and the Itani. You want to be PoS with Gray factions? You deal with being KoS to UIT and the same for Serco and Itani.
[EDIT] "can't fight back" and "fear of losing their standing" are two completely different things... grow a set and fight back, or fly out of the NFZ and fight back.
[EDIT] "can't fight back" and "fear of losing their standing" are two completely different things... grow a set and fight back, or fly out of the NFZ and fight back.
Actually, fly into the NFZ and fight back. They hit you there, they get TempKOS, which means you can then kill them safely.
Anyway, I just did some testing. I fired up two separate clients on two accounts and crashed the ships together many times (buses). It is dealing damage but each collision is doing less than 0.02% damage per collision. Turbo collisions seem to do around 0.015% damage, but on average if the target was moving so that I couldn't just hit it head on full speed, they did more like 0.01%. So it would take around a hundred collisions to kill a bus that started at 1% health. A hog has like 50% more armor than a bus. Not sure how collision damage scales vs. armor, didn't bother testing that.
Next, I used an asteroid to get down to 0.1% health and continued ramming myself into the other ship about ten times (didn't bother counting at that point). I was admired by the local faction, but when I finally died due to ramkill, I did not get to punish the other ship with faction hit. There was no penalty.
So in conclusion: No people cannot tank your standing via kamikaze ramkill, nor is it even remotely practical to ramkill somebody else to avoid a penalty (though it is technically possible).
Therefor you are either lying or grossly mistaken.
As for the pirates who are supposedly bumping into you, have you considered that perhaps they're just trying to knock you off course so you can't reach the dock? I know I do that when a moth is getting too close and I know it's loaded with heavy stuff. Once you start a moth filled with gats spinning, it takes some time for the pilot to regain control. Otherwise, I'd say those guys are probably ignorant of the changes.
Of course, the most likely explanation is you lied about them too.
Anyway, I just did some testing. I fired up two separate clients on two accounts and crashed the ships together many times (buses). It is dealing damage but each collision is doing less than 0.02% damage per collision. Turbo collisions seem to do around 0.015% damage, but on average if the target was moving so that I couldn't just hit it head on full speed, they did more like 0.01%. So it would take around a hundred collisions to kill a bus that started at 1% health. A hog has like 50% more armor than a bus. Not sure how collision damage scales vs. armor, didn't bother testing that.
Next, I used an asteroid to get down to 0.1% health and continued ramming myself into the other ship about ten times (didn't bother counting at that point). I was admired by the local faction, but when I finally died due to ramkill, I did not get to punish the other ship with faction hit. There was no penalty.
So in conclusion: No people cannot tank your standing via kamikaze ramkill, nor is it even remotely practical to ramkill somebody else to avoid a penalty (though it is technically possible).
Therefor you are either lying or grossly mistaken.
As for the pirates who are supposedly bumping into you, have you considered that perhaps they're just trying to knock you off course so you can't reach the dock? I know I do that when a moth is getting too close and I know it's loaded with heavy stuff. Once you start a moth filled with gats spinning, it takes some time for the pilot to regain control. Otherwise, I'd say those guys are probably ignorant of the changes.
Of course, the most likely explanation is you lied about them too.
It's nice to see nothing's changed here. Carry on, [insert dismissive insult here].
So much whining around here lately.
Traders bitching because pirates these days have no class, and pirates throwing a hissy fit because the traders are pointing it out.
Earthshine, Westacular is a fool. He rams people outside stations because he's too stupid to know that it doesn't do him any good, or because he wants to get a reaction out of them. That's how he gets his jollies, so just ignore him, or push his shit in when he goes someplace unmonitored.
TRS and the rest of you FAMY, grow some fucking spine. It's despicable that the largest pirate guild in the game today allows members who are admired by their home nation, and condoning people like West exploiting that to harass newbies at nation capitols? Oh how far you have fallen. No self-respecting pirate guild would have put up with that shit in the old days. As much as I despise all the mickey mouse bullshit around here, things were better back when friendly fire was off for all of nation space. At least then pirates were pirates and not a bunch of chucklefuck pussies and wankers giving real pirates a bad name. Then you come here spewing all kinds of vitriol at people calling you out on it, like you think other players are too stupid to figure out what's going on. Anyone watching the chat in game knows what's going on. Nobody likes you, and it's no secret why. And putting a spy account in the Dau L-10 station? real classy... yeah, those rotten devs will NEVER be able to tell what you're up to as long as you keep vehemently denying it on the forums. Grow a pair.
As a pirate, it's not like I don't kill newbs. PWND is not a carebear guild. For me though, there's at least some sport in it. I don't pop the same newb outside the same capitol station multiple times in a row, and I don't go flying around with liked or admired standing while engaging in classless shenanigans. It's no secret that FAMY is doing these things, not to the devs, and not to the rest of the players in general, so I recommend you man the fuck up and stop sounding like a bunch of crybabies denying it.
The faction system DOES need to be fixed, and pirates SHOULD be Tri-KOS. If friendly fire needs to go back off to make that happen, I'd rather see that happen than the game continue to degenerate into a bunch of classless dickholes griefing newbs 24/7 for jollies. First impressions are everything to new players who we want to subscribe, and if their first impression is that the entire playerbase is a bunch of griefers and assholes, because that's who they run into the most after leaving the training sector for a nation capitol, we're going to lose players.
Traders bitching because pirates these days have no class, and pirates throwing a hissy fit because the traders are pointing it out.
Earthshine, Westacular is a fool. He rams people outside stations because he's too stupid to know that it doesn't do him any good, or because he wants to get a reaction out of them. That's how he gets his jollies, so just ignore him, or push his shit in when he goes someplace unmonitored.
TRS and the rest of you FAMY, grow some fucking spine. It's despicable that the largest pirate guild in the game today allows members who are admired by their home nation, and condoning people like West exploiting that to harass newbies at nation capitols? Oh how far you have fallen. No self-respecting pirate guild would have put up with that shit in the old days. As much as I despise all the mickey mouse bullshit around here, things were better back when friendly fire was off for all of nation space. At least then pirates were pirates and not a bunch of chucklefuck pussies and wankers giving real pirates a bad name. Then you come here spewing all kinds of vitriol at people calling you out on it, like you think other players are too stupid to figure out what's going on. Anyone watching the chat in game knows what's going on. Nobody likes you, and it's no secret why. And putting a spy account in the Dau L-10 station? real classy... yeah, those rotten devs will NEVER be able to tell what you're up to as long as you keep vehemently denying it on the forums. Grow a pair.
As a pirate, it's not like I don't kill newbs. PWND is not a carebear guild. For me though, there's at least some sport in it. I don't pop the same newb outside the same capitol station multiple times in a row, and I don't go flying around with liked or admired standing while engaging in classless shenanigans. It's no secret that FAMY is doing these things, not to the devs, and not to the rest of the players in general, so I recommend you man the fuck up and stop sounding like a bunch of crybabies denying it.
The faction system DOES need to be fixed, and pirates SHOULD be Tri-KOS. If friendly fire needs to go back off to make that happen, I'd rather see that happen than the game continue to degenerate into a bunch of classless dickholes griefing newbs 24/7 for jollies. First impressions are everything to new players who we want to subscribe, and if their first impression is that the entire playerbase is a bunch of griefers and assholes, because that's who they run into the most after leaving the training sector for a nation capitol, we're going to lose players.
I have 3 points in response:
1) FAMY is not a pirate guild
2) I like ordered lists
3) midgets
4) lulz
Also I have quad kos but only because it's dandy. :-)
We refuse to be bound by your ridiculous rules, members do what they want to do and we help them. If you want to role-play a pirate go ahead, but we set out to make something different in FAMY that few actually understand.
1) FAMY is not a pirate guild
2) I like ordered lists
3) midgets
4) lulz
Also I have quad kos but only because it's dandy. :-)
We refuse to be bound by your ridiculous rules, members do what they want to do and we help them. If you want to role-play a pirate go ahead, but we set out to make something different in FAMY that few actually understand.
FAMY not a pierate guild? hahahahahahahahahaha and the tooth fairy is real also
they aren't a rat guild like the old guilds were always tri KOS but now they are semi carebears also
get a friggin life buttlicker at least make them all get tri kos or throw them all out god what a carebear fest it is when rats are liked or admired by nations where is tumble, ghost & lecter when you need them to show how rats really work.
even if I hate RR at least he is semi honest as a player and Yoda is the most honest player of them all when it comes to RP
they aren't a rat guild like the old guilds were always tri KOS but now they are semi carebears also
get a friggin life buttlicker at least make them all get tri kos or throw them all out god what a carebear fest it is when rats are liked or admired by nations where is tumble, ghost & lecter when you need them to show how rats really work.
even if I hate RR at least he is semi honest as a player and Yoda is the most honest player of them all when it comes to RP
TheRedSpy said:__________
"1) FAMY is not a pirate guild"
________________________
So basically, you're speaking on behalf of your guild when you admit to being purely a troll/griefer guild.
Yeah, piracy in VO really has reached an all-time low.
For the record, if any of your guildies disagree with your philosophy and want to be real pirates and not despised by association with your joke of a guild anymore, they're welcome to join [PWND]. Non KOS need not apply.
"1) FAMY is not a pirate guild"
________________________
So basically, you're speaking on behalf of your guild when you admit to being purely a troll/griefer guild.
Yeah, piracy in VO really has reached an all-time low.
For the record, if any of your guildies disagree with your philosophy and want to be real pirates and not despised by association with your joke of a guild anymore, they're welcome to join [PWND]. Non KOS need not apply.
A nice orderly list of points:
Minen
Firstly, I disagree with your assessment of my character! Further, would point out that I have a reputation to think of, so I kindly ask that you cease your libelous lies!
Secondly, I am deeply saddened that you apparently hate me, perhaps there is some arrangement we might reach so that you would have a more favorable opinion of me, though honestly... I must admit, everything before "though honestly" was a lie.
Third, FAMY is in point of obvious fact not a pirate guild, it is an organized crime syndicate. It just so happens that piracy, murder and extortion are the easiest way to RP this.
Fourth, all traders whine about all guilds that they consider to be pirates. Currently they whine about FAMY, I recall people whining about CLM, PA's short lived Privateer Division, CHRN, THC... which ever was most active at the time. Hell, I've even seen traders whine about ITAN and ONE, depending on which was aligned with TGFT at the time.
Minen
Firstly, I disagree with your assessment of my character! Further, would point out that I have a reputation to think of, so I kindly ask that you cease your libelous lies!
Secondly, I am deeply saddened that you apparently hate me, perhaps there is some arrangement we might reach so that you would have a more favorable opinion of me, though honestly... I must admit, everything before "though honestly" was a lie.
Third, FAMY is in point of obvious fact not a pirate guild, it is an organized crime syndicate. It just so happens that piracy, murder and extortion are the easiest way to RP this.
Fourth, all traders whine about all guilds that they consider to be pirates. Currently they whine about FAMY, I recall people whining about CLM, PA's short lived Privateer Division, CHRN, THC... which ever was most active at the time. Hell, I've even seen traders whine about ITAN and ONE, depending on which was aligned with TGFT at the time.
A couple of points in response:
I'll go tri-kos when there's a reason to go tri-kos. Unlock some content at that status and I'll do it. Because you want me to? No.
I'm not hiding anything from the devs. I'm not hiding anything from the players. I have an advertising executive who resides in the capital. Deal with it.
FAMY has never been purely pirate nor have they been elitist. Is it possible Wes annoyed someone? Probably. Deal with it.
I'm bringing some interesting RP to the game. You're sitting in an alt guild where half your members have 0 PKs. Tell me about the good old days of piracy some more.
I'll go tri-kos when there's a reason to go tri-kos. Unlock some content at that status and I'll do it. Because you want me to? No.
I'm not hiding anything from the devs. I'm not hiding anything from the players. I have an advertising executive who resides in the capital. Deal with it.
FAMY has never been purely pirate nor have they been elitist. Is it possible Wes annoyed someone? Probably. Deal with it.
I'm bringing some interesting RP to the game. You're sitting in an alt guild where half your members have 0 PKs. Tell me about the good old days of piracy some more.
Sorry, not half. Nine. Nine out of your twelve members have zero PKs.
I play a pirate, and I play it full time. When you want to commit to being more than a weekend warrior, feel free to offer advice. Until then, have fun on your alt. We'll catch you while you're hauling goods on your trader main.
I play a pirate, and I play it full time. When you want to commit to being more than a weekend warrior, feel free to offer advice. Until then, have fun on your alt. We'll catch you while you're hauling goods on your trader main.
Some of the best guilds are the small ones. I have no problem with being in a small guild. Helps keep out the riff-raff.
Savet said:__________
"We'll catch you while you're hauling goods on your trader main."
____________________
Yeah, good luck with that. :)
Savet said:__________
"We'll catch you while you're hauling goods on your trader main."
____________________
Yeah, good luck with that. :)
Girls, girls... yer both pretty!
For fucks sake... even pirates are whining about pirates! If the two main trade guilds had this much enmity I'd of never left PA... well, actually I would have, but... I'd of joined TGFT.
[EDIT] As much as I'm enjoying this thread can we get back on topic before our mods ruin my fun and lock the damned thread?
For fucks sake... even pirates are whining about pirates! If the two main trade guilds had this much enmity I'd of never left PA... well, actually I would have, but... I'd of joined TGFT.
[EDIT] As much as I'm enjoying this thread can we get back on topic before our mods ruin my fun and lock the damned thread?
If were a pure troll grieved guild then we aren't a pirate guild and therefore you shouldn't be complaining about FAMY and their impact on piracy. We have never been a pirate guild we just sell a completely p2p oriented product that certain anti-capitalistic individuals dislike.