Was wantin to get a general "feel" on how most players see VO.

Do ya's see/wanna see it as mainly a Space sim shooter or do you see/wanna see it as a "tactical" Space sim shooter.

Please let me explain

IMO a Space sim shooter is just dog fighting at full capacity, until one ship reaches 0% and that ship blows up. One of the games that come to mind when i think of a Space sim shooter is Jumpgate.

IMO a "tactical" Space sim shooter has the dog fighting, but as the ship takes damage it's performance degrades. Startrek Starfleet command 3 and Terminus seem to best fit the description of this.

So players and Devs, if your not too busy. before i post a rather long thread, what do you all see VO being(now and in the future)

i did a lil searching, and didnt see anything like this. if i missed it, pls point the way so i can link it properly.

Personally I would prefer the former for fighter combat and the latter for capship combat. I suppose it's already sort of like that in some ways for capships, because you can knock out shields and destroy turrets.

I think some of the magic of Vendetta's fighter combat model would be taken away if that were applied to single-pilot ships, however.

Yeah. Being able to keep on fighting at 1% health is pretty exciting, because you can still theoretically keep going indefinitely, but only if you dodge perfectly. Managing to kill somebody who started at 100% while your health was in the red the entire time gives one of the best senses of accomplishment VO has to offer.

VO is multi-layered, sandbox and open-end style.

Part of the game is combat, another part is non-combat (trade, manufacture, etc) and many see that the most important part is the ROLEPLAY, becoming a character, or many. You can even be on enemy guilds, like ITAN/ONE, or CHRN/VPR, either playing "isolating chars" or really as an infiltrator, or double-agent.

Also, there is the Forum Game, that many play as "Conquer that Thread", while most see it as a cooperative arena.

Keep your main alt straight as you want it, and create many other alts to try different lifestyles, like nationalist, trader, miner, pirate, fragile female, brutal troll, whatever you'd like.

Well i thank you all for your input. I just wanted a feel of what peeps like/feel VO is.

As for me, i never really liked the simple Space sim shooter(prolly the reason why i'm watchin M.warrior online and Really ReallY REALLY hope mayby someday they'll make a Starfleet command 3 MMO)

big fan of the ole terminus and microsoft combat flight simulators. the best thing i loved bout terminus was the fact that the fight wasn't over all the time after you killed the enemy Ship, the real fun for me was evaluating the damage, and pritorizing my repairs to my ship before the oxygen ran out, or the radiation became too high, etc etc etc.

So far in VO, i'm really enjoyin the mining and stuff, and i've already re-subbd. I just want to know where the direction of the game was possibly headin.

Once again, thankyou for your input.

Terminus was great, but way too much overhead for this bunch here. They just want to launch, point 'n shoot without the exigencies of managing their ship. Within the limitations to which VO was designed, they even have a point. I've wanted the ship customization system from Terminus implemented in VO for some time, but I seriously doubt that'll happen either.

For those who might not be aware, you haven't lived until you've had a fight with Pirates in deep space, then had to limp your ship home with half the fuel and energy systems offline, or see them blockade the jumpgate you need to get through to get home and realize the only way you're doing it is to use a ballistic path route between spaces all the while having to watch your fuel, energy resumes, oxygen, the occasional asteroid, and (at the same time) maintain a low IR and EM emissions profile so you don't pop up on the bad guys sensor suites. And BTW, these are all single pilot ships too.

They just want to launch, point 'n shoot without the exigencies of managing their ship.

I think Pizzasgood is closer the mark in that fights between ships in VO will often come down to the very last shot, which makes for exciting gameplay. After years of combat experience I personally like the fact you can have 1% hull remaining without any performance degradation, as it allows one to focus on the fundamental aspects of combat up until the very end. When you consider the hundreds of split-second decisions that are made every minute between dogfighting pilots at higher levels, introducing subsystems management would re-direct some of this focus.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but VO would be a very different game from the one we've come to know and love. It's hardly a new idea, either (please don't reply to that thread). Quite frankly, I find the suggestion that it would be over the head of VO's playerbase to be ridiculous. Managing a fighter's energy, momentum, attitude, and distance to target in a physics-based environment holds enough complexity on its own. Introducing hypothetical ship systems would redirect some of the player's attention, but wouldn't make the game any more strategic or tactical than it is now.

I had the very same thought when I first started playing, but have come to appreciate that VO's combat holds a great deal of emergent complexity at the most basic level.

I would enjoy an MMO where the ships were expensive and had a bunch of subsystems and such, where you really care about the ship and try hard not to die. That would be awesome, and if somebody makes a good game like that I'll gladly buy a subscription to keep my VO sub company.

What I wouldn't like is for VO to become that game. At least not on the fighter level. I do think it's the way to go when it comes to capships though.

why do we have to choose "simple fighters" XOR "complex capships", instead of "simple fighters" AND "complex capships"?

The larger the capship gets, more complex becomes to fly it... subsystems included. while the fighters are a single piece that goes boom... both flying in same space.

Imagine a GUILD-owned capship, with some automation, as automine and autoturrets, so owner group can leave it working while some are offline, while being able to interact with it from cell phone... just like a player-owned flying station. Complex settings on defense, production, trade price, supplies, etc... and a few simple bombers can wipe it while undefended...

That's where I'd like VO to go. Add another layer for capships.

Phaser, I didn't say it was bad; that's just not what VO was designed to do. I fully agree with Rin in that a game built around those concepts would be outstanding, however introducing them to VO would be disastrous. It's not that the players here "couldn't" handle that level of overhead, they just don't want to. (and as mentioned, to a degree shouldn't have to either) What does make me laugh though is saying that VO has a full Newtonian physics model, because it doesn't. If it did, you'd see degradation of your ship's performance as you took damage and maneuvering would be much more ... interesting, not to mention that energy management during combat would be as important as positioning and fire accuracy. To me, the deficiency of VO (and other space sims) is that fire control is everything. I come from the universe of flight sims where flight skill, not just aiming skill is important too, since getting behind someone where they can't shoot back is half the battle. (yes, yes - I'm fully aware that dodging counts as flight skill, but you know fully well what I mean) To be honest, I've yet to see any space sim which had a full on Newtonian physics mode. Terminus was the closest I've seen in all these years, but even it had some suspension of belief. It was designed to be an MMO, but never quite got there.

Nevertheless, I still enjoy VO for what it's designed to do. I do however think that fully integrating capships into the mix is going to be tough given VO's design. Personally, I think we'd actually be better off waiting until the things are a bit more finished until we determine if they're broken or not. Of course they're broken; they're barely implemented. That doesn't mean we can't discuss what we'd like capship gameplay to be like though.

"I come from the universe of flight sims where flight skill, not just aiming skill is important too, since getting behind someone where they can't shoot back is half the battle."

Actually, that's exactly how I prefer to fight in VO. I get up close and outmaneuver them. It is extremely effective against people who aren't use to fighting at ship-colliding proximity or are in a less nimble ship. Against people who can match you, it is extremely fun and intense. Unfortunately most people seem to be deathly afraid of getting close. Maybe I should shower more. Anyway, I end up spending much of my fight just trying to get into nose-bumping range so I can really cut loose.

This is also why flares are my bane. Flares are very good for preventing people from getting that close in the first place, though you do have to be diligent because once a person gets too close the flares lose their effectiveness due to delayed prox arming, splash, and the extra self-splash damage. Gats are also good for that and don't degrade at close range the way flares do, but don't have the concussive force to buy you time for backing away or going on offense.

At the moment VO does 'Space sim shooter' very well, there's no doubt about that. I do however see potential for the eventual expansion into the 'tactical Space sim shooter' side of things and beyond.

As for the future things look promising with player owned cappies being a step in the right direction as they have huge implications in how their going to affect the VO universe. And taking that manufacturing concept a stage further, player built space stations would be absolutely mind boggling, the ramifications are enormous.

I'm curious, why did VO originally decide go with the 'Space sim shooter' style over the 'tactical Space sim shooter'?

It was designed to be an MMO, but never quite got there.

Sounds like VO.

I understand that Rin. One reason I still have some problems in combat is largely due to the many years I spent in flight sims. I still have maneuver on the brain, trying to get on someone's 6 before shooting.

Lector: VO DID get there. Whether it does it well or not is another matter. (I personally give it a C in that regard at the moment; a full fledged MMO wouldn't have to make all the "kludges" it does so a sector doesn't get clogged as it currently does)

One reason I still have some problems in combat is largely due to the many years I spent in flight sims. I still have maneuver on the brain, trying to get on someone's 6 before shooting.

Replace "before" with "while" and you've described a big part of spacefighter combat, at close range. Get to where you can hit your opponent, but they can't hit you; this seems to be a key tactic.

edit: by the way, I'm sure Terminus is a great game, but it gets a little confusing discussing alternate games under "Suggestions". A lot of players find "Off Topic" (labeled: threads not related to Vendetta) a better spot to post about other games.