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Currently, they are able to achieve only a fraction of what they could with shields/gauss. So get that up and running then start talking about effective anticap weapons.
The first part of this is true, the second part is stupid. You don't add a feature to the game knowing that it is really imbalanced without anything to counter it, when the functionality needed for the counters does not exist yet.
The first part of this is true, the second part is stupid. You don't add a feature to the game knowing that it is really imbalanced without anything to counter it, when the functionality needed for the counters does not exist yet.
Oh sure! In an ideal world. But that's exactly what cappies are at the moment, big fat content deposits without any regard for their balance whatsoever. The devs didn't carefully consider that shields and capgauss would be imbalanced and therefore didn't include them in the Type M, they didn't include them because they didn't have time to ship the extra content.
The content is imbalanced, but also unfinished. Pretending it's ever going to fit yours or anyone elses definition of balanced is a hilarious pipe-dream. Somebody is always going to complain about it.
Add the features, balance it after.
The content is imbalanced, but also unfinished. Pretending it's ever going to fit yours or anyone elses definition of balanced is a hilarious pipe-dream. Somebody is always going to complain about it.
Add the features, balance it after.
Keller, let me clarify: The suppressing ship should not be able to shoot, but should be able to move while operating the field. Not necessarily maintain a constant turbo, but enough to keep pace with a trident (though hopefully not a behemoth). The field would have a definite radius, so he'd have to keep a certain proximity to the trident. Not sure what a fair radius would be, probably around 700m or so. And like I said, it should block all ships within the field, including the one projecting it.
There could also be a delay for the projecting ship, so that he has to wait a few seconds after releasing the field before he can jump - so if you get beyond the field and jump away, you get a head start.
The downside is obviously that it wastes a ship which could otherwise have been a bomber or chainsaw. A solo pilot could not employ it other than possibly to operate a blockade, but then he'd be defenseless, and could only block one ship at a time (the field affects infinite ships, but only within the radius - if they split up, he can only follow one of them). Fast trade ships can outrun it and fighters can kill it, so it would mainly be effective against capital ships.
Maybe take a leaf from EVE and have nations not like people using these in their space, so that activating one in a monitored sector for more than a few seconds results in becoming temp-kos and dispatches a strike force to remove you. Otherwise there wouldn't be a good way to stop a POS pirate from harassing traders, for example.
Oh, and don't think of this as a pirate whining about traders. Pirates can have capital ships too. How would you like it if I maintained good standing with UIT and flew a Trident around empty sectors in Dau providing RR for people like Savet and Dr. Lecter while they preyed on newbies, and any time you tried to kill me I just hopped away to a different empty sector until you inevitably lost me? Unlike with non-cappies, you can't quickly kill the trident during the times when you warp in close to it. I'd just keep hopping until the random entry positions were in my favor and I escaped, then I'd get somebody to repair whatever scratches you inflicted. You would literally not be able to kill me.
There could also be a delay for the projecting ship, so that he has to wait a few seconds after releasing the field before he can jump - so if you get beyond the field and jump away, you get a head start.
The downside is obviously that it wastes a ship which could otherwise have been a bomber or chainsaw. A solo pilot could not employ it other than possibly to operate a blockade, but then he'd be defenseless, and could only block one ship at a time (the field affects infinite ships, but only within the radius - if they split up, he can only follow one of them). Fast trade ships can outrun it and fighters can kill it, so it would mainly be effective against capital ships.
Maybe take a leaf from EVE and have nations not like people using these in their space, so that activating one in a monitored sector for more than a few seconds results in becoming temp-kos and dispatches a strike force to remove you. Otherwise there wouldn't be a good way to stop a POS pirate from harassing traders, for example.
Oh, and don't think of this as a pirate whining about traders. Pirates can have capital ships too. How would you like it if I maintained good standing with UIT and flew a Trident around empty sectors in Dau providing RR for people like Savet and Dr. Lecter while they preyed on newbies, and any time you tried to kill me I just hopped away to a different empty sector until you inevitably lost me? Unlike with non-cappies, you can't quickly kill the trident during the times when you warp in close to it. I'd just keep hopping until the random entry positions were in my favor and I escaped, then I'd get somebody to repair whatever scratches you inflicted. You would literally not be able to kill me.
500k is cake to make. You can pull that much profit in minutes with a Behemoth and a good price list. Its the most expensive ship in the game, and it's also the hardest one to kill. Way harder per credit than a Greyhound or Behemoth Heavy Miner MkII.
Any other player ship will die in seconds to a stack of flares or jackhammers.
"Make trident actually able to achieve an end and people will risk their trident's hulls to try and achieve it."
You know, all the times I've flown mine through sectors with enemies nobody's so much as tried to attack me, because they know it's a huge pain in the ass to do it. All in all, the biggest threat I've run into so far has been the Prosus Hive. A Serco NPC constellation takes a close second to that.
Unless you have nearly endless numbers like mobs of NPCs or spectacular firepower like a HAC or Teradon's turrets, a shielded Trident with a pilot who knows how to dodge a missile or rocket stack is INVINCIBLE. These two things are something no player or group of players in the game can currently accomplish. TheRedSpy, we know that's what you want already, so quit begging for it.
Any other player ship will die in seconds to a stack of flares or jackhammers.
"Make trident actually able to achieve an end and people will risk their trident's hulls to try and achieve it."
You know, all the times I've flown mine through sectors with enemies nobody's so much as tried to attack me, because they know it's a huge pain in the ass to do it. All in all, the biggest threat I've run into so far has been the Prosus Hive. A Serco NPC constellation takes a close second to that.
Unless you have nearly endless numbers like mobs of NPCs or spectacular firepower like a HAC or Teradon's turrets, a shielded Trident with a pilot who knows how to dodge a missile or rocket stack is INVINCIBLE. These two things are something no player or group of players in the game can currently accomplish. TheRedSpy, we know that's what you want already, so quit begging for it.
How would you like it if I maintained good standing with UIT and flew a Trident around empty sectors in Dau providing RR for people like Savet and Dr. Lecter while they preyed on newbies, and any time you tried to kill me I just hopped away to a different empty sector until you inevitably lost me?
I would like it very much. Get on that, Rin!
I would like it very much. Get on that, Rin!
How would you like it if I maintained good standing with UIT and flew a Trident around empty sectors in Dau providing RR for people like Savet and Dr. Lecter while they preyed on newbies, and any time you tried to kill me I just hopped away to a different empty sector until you inevitably lost me?
TheRedSpy snickers.
Oh and it's not empty sectors, it's right smack bang in the middle of Dau L-11, since trident is invincible to all the NPC's.
TheRedSpy snickers again.
TheRedSpy snickers.
Oh and it's not empty sectors, it's right smack bang in the middle of Dau L-11, since trident is invincible to all the NPC's.
TheRedSpy snickers again.
Rin, okay I understand the logic. Still not sure if it's balanced yet, but your point is well thought out at least. It still feels like a "Gimme" to pirates; it might have potential uses in combat as well. Would the weapon require energy to fire/operate? That way you have to make a serious choice about using it as well.
Give it the energy use of the BioCom mine.
Yeah, I was figuring it would have a constant energy draw while active, which would interfere with your turbo somewhat, making it harder to chase the faster trade ships, and reduces the ability to fight while operating it, especially while operating it and turboing at the same time.
And like I said, if that's not enough it could also have a high grid requirement to prevent any weapons being used at all.
And like I said, if that's not enough it could also have a high grid requirement to prevent any weapons being used at all.
Seems it is time to think out of the box... it does not hurt, try!
What we need is Shields for player-owned cappies.
And using those shields should have consequences. Either installing shield will use most of your storage bay, or prevent user from turboing while shielded;;;
Then, after shields are introduced, we need weapons specialized in piercing shields, that are almst useless against hulls... each "10 unit shot" can produce 10 shield damage, but 1 hull damage.
So, cappie owner must choose if wants shields, thus sacrificing cargo, and if use it or not, thus running faster or crawling slower... And cappie hunters must choose to be either very efficient against shields but bad against hulls, or great hull damage but bad against shields. And those weapons types should also be available to cappies...
1. Shields installation sacifices cargo storage.
2. Shields usage sacifices speed
3. Anti-shield weapons are crap after shield is gone
What we need is Shields for player-owned cappies.
And using those shields should have consequences. Either installing shield will use most of your storage bay, or prevent user from turboing while shielded;;;
Then, after shields are introduced, we need weapons specialized in piercing shields, that are almst useless against hulls... each "10 unit shot" can produce 10 shield damage, but 1 hull damage.
So, cappie owner must choose if wants shields, thus sacrificing cargo, and if use it or not, thus running faster or crawling slower... And cappie hunters must choose to be either very efficient against shields but bad against hulls, or great hull damage but bad against shields. And those weapons types should also be available to cappies...
1. Shields installation sacifices cargo storage.
2. Shields usage sacifices speed
3. Anti-shield weapons are crap after shield is gone
Alloh you've lost the plot, but at least this time you formatted your post in a readable manner.
The devs didn't leave shields out for balance reasons, they just inserted tridents with as many features as they could give it as quickly as they could because the community voted for quick over proper.
They really haven't considered balance at all, which is what ARF, slime etc.. etc.. are complaining about.
I'm advocating just throwing in shiny new features regardless of balance as well, since the game is already broken with invincible tridents anyway, might as well make them shiny too.
They are arguing that my approach is ridiculous and balance must be considered, I argue back that the devs are not going to consider balance for ages and we need shields to boost interest in trident manufacturing to help the game, ARF argues that I am self interested etc.. etc.. etc.. and so on and so fourth.
Ultimately nobody gets anything since content is apparently right down the bottom of the priority list at the moment.
:(
EDIT: Oh, and as fancy and impressive and elaborate as Rin's suggestion is, honestly, if you just give avalons a bit more speed and homing, and then make them targetable/destroyable, I think we're pretty much set with anti-cap weapons. That's developmentally simple.. right?
I can't emphasise enough how beneficial capship improvements like shields would be to the game. More people moving capship parts means more traders, which means more bot farming, which means more player trade, which means more piracy, which means more station conflict, which means more players. It's really the heart of VO at the moment and the only endgame we have. PAY ATTENTION TO IT DEVS!!
The devs didn't leave shields out for balance reasons, they just inserted tridents with as many features as they could give it as quickly as they could because the community voted for quick over proper.
They really haven't considered balance at all, which is what ARF, slime etc.. etc.. are complaining about.
I'm advocating just throwing in shiny new features regardless of balance as well, since the game is already broken with invincible tridents anyway, might as well make them shiny too.
They are arguing that my approach is ridiculous and balance must be considered, I argue back that the devs are not going to consider balance for ages and we need shields to boost interest in trident manufacturing to help the game, ARF argues that I am self interested etc.. etc.. etc.. and so on and so fourth.
Ultimately nobody gets anything since content is apparently right down the bottom of the priority list at the moment.
:(
EDIT: Oh, and as fancy and impressive and elaborate as Rin's suggestion is, honestly, if you just give avalons a bit more speed and homing, and then make them targetable/destroyable, I think we're pretty much set with anti-cap weapons. That's developmentally simple.. right?
I can't emphasise enough how beneficial capship improvements like shields would be to the game. More people moving capship parts means more traders, which means more bot farming, which means more player trade, which means more piracy, which means more station conflict, which means more players. It's really the heart of VO at the moment and the only endgame we have. PAY ATTENTION TO IT DEVS!!
EDIT: Oh, and as fancy and impressive and elaborate as Rin's suggestion is, honestly, if you just give avalons a bit more speed and homing, and then make them targetable/destroyable, I think we're pretty much set with anti-cap weapons.
Nope. Buffing Avalons addresses a different problem from the one I addressed.
Nope. Buffing Avalons addresses a different problem from the one I addressed.
Okay you caught me, I didn't read a few of your posts, but the one lots of people seem to whine about is tridents being invincible to non-tridents in most practical forms even though that only applies when its moving at 140m.
In any case, the point I'm more trying to get across is that fixing tridents would create a large amount of player activity in VO where there wasn't activity before which is desperately needed
In any case, the point I'm more trying to get across is that fixing tridents would create a large amount of player activity in VO where there wasn't activity before which is desperately needed