So, since we're talking about Faction Redux, can we discuss again what to do with pirates?

First, some clarifications:

-For a newbie, makes no sense that someone in his own nation, will attack him. Vets know who pirate are, and to look player stats, even have TCS to highlight them. But for a newbie, it is a fellow citizen attacking him unprovoked.

-For any decent nation, makes no sense to leave traitors to keep using their nation's IFF. It is like if an US military ship decide to join Somali Pirates, and it keeps using the same IFF codes, so all other ships still detect that ship as american... Once a shp is gone, that IFF code is marked as FOE.

-How differ a Traitor from a Soldier or Privateer? Simple: Traitor attacks fellows from same nation. Soldiers ad Privateers don't. With present system, if a UIT traitor with good standing enters UIT space, other UIT players (soldiers and privateers) cannot attack him without harsh consequences. And they can recover faction standing, while hunting that nation's players in grayspace.

So, what is the solution? BAN TRAITORS. Punishment for attacking other players from same faction should be increasing, until finally ban that player from that nation. Those players should not be able to recover standing only with native nation.

For that to work, we need a 4th playable faction. Can be Corvus or XX, can be "unaligned", "NoNation", Pariahs, pirates, outlaws, whatever.

No, they don't have to be friends among themselves. Don't have to cooperate. Declared enemies can be in that same 4th faction. They simply were banned from native nation, and now their IFF no longer displays UIT, Serco or Itani, but something as "PIRATE", "NO IFF" or "NO ID"...

This "new faction" should be close to Corvus and XX, receiving a good Cv/XX standing to start once they are banned, and player is re-homed in Corvus Capital.

I also would like to see another way to join that new faction, but I consider that native KoS should become the first way there.

So, comments? Flames?

+1

Exiled?

The idea seems sound, but hopefully some more experienced players will have some more feedback

I think these are great ideas, Alloh, and I would also add this: considering the wholesale slaughter I witnessed the other day in Dau of pretty much just newbs, (players with 1 or less ratings), I think it should be just as deadly for a pirate to attack anyone in the NFZ of a capital station as it would be if the pirate were to go into the training areas. Seriously, these kind of terrorist activities are just pointless. I think all effort should be made to create an environment, just in the capital systems, in which brand new players can have a chance to get their feet under them. I know I'm gonna get torched on this, but that's the way I feel.

At least the default radat/IFF will say that they are the enemy, not "same team"...

Yawn. How many times over the last few years have you proposed this same, tired OMG, ANYONE ATTACKING SAME NATION = TEH EXILE!!11 idea (and I use that term loosely)?

But go ahead, do it. See how long it takes before pirates are using the system for cover against anti-pirates, rather than being deterred by its consequences.

it is not about preventing pirates from doing what they want, but simply marking them PIRATES.

In every other combat game with teams that I know it is NOT welcome to shoot other players in the same team. And VO nations are teams...

Also, for realism, what would be a most likely situation in Sci-Fi:

1.
-Captain, sensors detected a ship. Not from our fleet, sir.
-Raise shields, they can be pirates!
-Captain, they're shooting at us
-Respond fire!

2.
-Captain, sensors detected a ship. IFF says it is one of ours, sir. It is ship X321
-Ok, let them approach
-Captain, they're shooting at us
-Raise shields, they must be pirates. despíte being in our own fleet!

or, transporting to VO... a newbie just leaves nation space for the first time:

1.
-hey, a ship... IFF says its pirate, must be dangerous
Pirate shoots. Newbie explodes.
-so, grayspace is dangerous and pirates are real

2.
-hey, a ship... IFF says it is from my nation, must fe friendly
Pirate shoots. Newbie explodes.
-Griefer! Troll! Shooting your own team

Myself and other pirates/outlaws have been asking for a fourth faction for ages.

It's really what everyone wants.

inaminit:

I agree, new players shouldn't be targeted while in nation space. I'll blast new players in grey (Usually with a "What are you doing out here?", come back when you can defend yourself), but I don't see any reason to attack them while in nation space.

Now that being said, I think that we need to define the cutoff for what "new" is. There is something to be said for a bit of danger out in space, even nation space.

The training sectors were designed to get people on their feet, but maybe there needs to be a sliding scale of security, where they are eased into the dangerous universe.

The sad part is, new players are really the ONLY ones capable of being station camped. The free batteries make them sitting ducks.

it is not about preventing pirates from doing what they want, but simply marking them PIRATES.

It's cute that you think you've developed a system for accurately flagging "bad" PvP players. Like I said, implement it and see what we do with it.

This is pretty great, though: on the one hand, we have Alloh's mindless 'same nation=same team'; on the other hand, we have Bung****'s equally mindless 'nationality should have no relevance to where I go or what I can buy.'

I couldn't even bare to read though Alloh's entire post of drivel.

Pirates need to have a place to hang their hat on. I'd say hidden stations in corvus, that are so evil that if you don't have kos with someone you get your ass shot off like jumping into a training sector.

I'm thinking maybe if each pilot had an IFF transponder list of pilot names that was editable from a tab on their pda; or it could just be an editable ascii file? It would then be up to each player who they put on that list, or not.

Anyone you've put on your IFF list would show up as red (or whatever colour) on your radar, every other PC as green; it might also give a distinct audible warning, something that's different from the proximity warning sound.

Maybe brand new pilots could start the game with a default list of notorious pirates or something similar and edit it as they go.

@inaminit
given I took semi part in the Dau killing, it was for fun and profit, the goal was to have some fun given, some TGFT / VPR where shit talking the strike force the hole time DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, this should not be that hard the hole strike force has KOS on there back ( also its hard to stay alive long in Dau ), keep in mind we can't dock anywhere and turrets fire at all locations plus strike-forces are out in full force.
the only way to repair is players with repair guns.

@Alloh
"So, what is the solution? BAN TRAITORS. Punishment for attacking other players from same faction should be increasing, until finally ban that player from that nation. Those players should not be able to recover standing only with native nation."

Define banned I'm all for 1 kill is KOS, but if you want to 'ban' people by disabling there ability to jump into nation space that's just silly, also I'm willing to create a alt to get people banned be damaging but not destroying other players.

@Alloh
As for a 4th faction I'm all for identifying myself as well a risk to traders everywhere, as I always do to noobs on 100 if the ask something about pirates etc, everyone should know by now my deal is 400k or be destroyed. ( i try to make this clear to everyone always ).

Alloh, we are already marked "Kill On Site" and show up as hostiles on the radar. If people are too stupid to understand what that means, then I feel sorry for them, and will gladly put them out of their misery.

Those of us who aren't marked such have taken the time to repair our standing - which although too easy, is certainly not trivial. It takes a few hours. And what do you get for that? The ability to kill one newbie unsuspected. Then your standing drops to hated or disliked, depending on how high you built it first. Remember, the nations have much more severe faction penalties than the minor factions do. So, you can't argue that the KOS mark is useless.

So your suggestion is unnecessary for the purpose that you desire. The process of repairing it could certainly stand to be more involved (not just a reduction to the rewards of procs, but require multiple activities instead, as discussed in other threads). But the enemy identification is already there. A fourth faction is not necessary (nor appropriate) for this purpose.

All that said, it would be nice to be able to become unaligned. The catch is that there would be no "unaligned" faction bar for people to raise, since that would make no sense. If a UIT person meets an Unaligned person, the Unaligned person's standing with the UIT would be consulted, and that would determine the hostility flag for both parties.

EDIT: I should mention that yes, it is possible to prowl nation space and follow people to unmonitored sectors where you can kill them without penalty. Tough. You want to talk about IFF and real life? In real life, the serial killer lives next door. The rapist is across the street. The terrorist rides the bus with you. The mugger follows you into the dark alley. So when people like Dr. Lecter maintain good standings by being sneeky, that is OK.

Capt'N Blood is serco and wants to remain serco. Even if he's serco KOS :p

And if by any chance i appear as a green dot on yer radar, ye really should stop usin' plugins or at least learn to configure 'em :p

@Deathrazor:
For me, scaling up. Something as the 2nd PK after declared KoS makes a traitor. Only for same nation PKs:
1st PK: Temp KoS, BIG warning, faction hit
2nd PK: KoS, BIG warning, small freeze as "jail" on next respawn
3rd PK: Banned, IFF remarked.

Accidental PKs still can be forgiven.

As I also have to agree that some must keep some bonds to native nation, that information can be kept in their stats page.
[GUILD] Badguy - OUTLAW, Serco-born
Lone Rat - RAT, native UIT

So, BAN will not impose other sanctions than already existing now. Only makes "pirates" appear as pirates in-game, so they don't have to explain to every noobie that they yaaarrr pirates!

AND can become the main access to 4th playable faction, but not the only one. Other access must exist for non-traitors, privateers-like who wants to keep some standing with native faction.

Then comes another war, choosing a name for faction... or Inc choose another one never proposed...

Only makes "pirates," "VPR," "TGFT," "ONE," and "ITAN" appear as pirates in-game

Fixed that for you. If you think that, say, a UIT pirate with great UIT standing can't behave in a way that forces a UIT anti-pirate with great UIT standing to either have to pk the pirate and incur a penalty or give up doing his job as an anti-pirate... well, you're not very creative. You'll also find that anti-pirates won't really want to use mines, flares, or missiles that often--because all it will take is one pre-damaged-to-1% hull fellow UIT pirate following his buddy pirate around to fuck his standing.

The same scenario works for Serco in Serco space, and Itani in Itani space. You have a small mind, though, and I don't expect you to see the myriad ways in which your system will utterly fail to function as intended. But fail it would, because one pilot's "pirate" is another pilot's "normal" -- even within the same nation.