Forums » Suggestions
So, I'm flying around, having a reasonably good time, with a few caveats:
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A) The paucity of ship builds.
It seems not much has changed in the combat meta. We mostly have the weapons that we had. There's some new shiny equipment, but it's still lacking variation enough to allow real creativity. This is somewhat disappointing, since the equipment drop system was supposed to infuse this element into the game.
I would still love to see some kind of random element in weapons dropped/crafted.
(On the crafting side, infusion of minerals into existing weapon systems, with upsides and downsides would have been high on my list. Example: You infuse a blaster with Heliocene, it gives +10 damage, -5 m/s speed, additionally, it gives the blaster a yellowish tinge)
You might have a few broken weapons generated if the drops have some randomness applied, but this would appear to be solved by making those weapons especially rare.
This kind of randomness would also enable a thriving resale market, where someone could get the shopping experience of being pleasantly surprised by something you didn't believe existed.
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B) A Wide, Empty Universe
This has been an issue for me every time I've gotten back, but the universe is so large, and transit so boring, I wish there were a few mechanics to make it a bit smaller (Read: FEEL a bit smaller), so that people could accidentally run into other people more frequently.
This could be solved a number of ways, and I'm sure there are plenty more I haven't thought of. Here are a few:
1. Quick transport options.
Nearly all MMO's use some form of these, because they realize that when you and a friend log on, you don't want to spend half-an-hour just getting to a convenient place to meet up.
2. Interesting Choke points
Sedina comes closest to having all the pieces to make an interesting place for people to run into each other. It has the racetracks, CTC, a number of stations in the vicinity which offer a variety of playable ship builds.... So why is it so empty?
Edras and Latos both have 3 wormholes,
With more Itani and UIT players online, Edras would appear to be the ideal spot. But the limited variation of ship builds supported by the stations in the vicinity make it less than optimal.
Meanwhile, Deneb has incredible action going on... But the devs have managed to place it so far afield of regular traffic, that it just doesn't get the attention it deserves.
3) Unusual PvE, varying by location in the universe
I'm not a big fan of PvE in VO, and I think that's largely because it's always just felt like I'm doing the same things with a different motivation. ("Now you're going to go kill these spheres which shoot red AND blue things at you).
Where are the asteroid-mounted turrets? The Star Wars inspired trench-runs?
These are the sorts of things that can pull a lot of people together. But when you take the same thing (A dynamic hive) and you place it in a number of parts in the universe, people don't NEED to travel to find things. It's already there, so they never run into anyone else.
(And while we're on the subject of PvE... Capital ship battles are still a bit like watching whales sun themselves. Tactics are so complex on a small ship level in this game, there needs to be some way to make capital ship combat more complex than "Get into range and start firing". It seems the most complicated thing to come out of capship battles is "Stacking swarms to break shields.")
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C) A Group-PvP system where the combat has gone a little stale
I love dueling. It's the one thing that keeps me coming back over and over again.
That being said, in group combat I see a problem with the ease of "repositioning"
The reason why there's very little in the way of formations in this game is that I can move 1500 m to assist a teammate in a manner of seconds. I don't need to be riding my buddy's coat tails to keep the bogeys off him.
By limiting the environment, we allow complex game play to emerge. This is true in many game systems, and no less in this one.
----------------------------------------------
Just a few thoughts, thanks for reading if you did!
-----------------------------------------------
A) The paucity of ship builds.
It seems not much has changed in the combat meta. We mostly have the weapons that we had. There's some new shiny equipment, but it's still lacking variation enough to allow real creativity. This is somewhat disappointing, since the equipment drop system was supposed to infuse this element into the game.
I would still love to see some kind of random element in weapons dropped/crafted.
(On the crafting side, infusion of minerals into existing weapon systems, with upsides and downsides would have been high on my list. Example: You infuse a blaster with Heliocene, it gives +10 damage, -5 m/s speed, additionally, it gives the blaster a yellowish tinge)
You might have a few broken weapons generated if the drops have some randomness applied, but this would appear to be solved by making those weapons especially rare.
This kind of randomness would also enable a thriving resale market, where someone could get the shopping experience of being pleasantly surprised by something you didn't believe existed.
--------------------------------------------------------
B) A Wide, Empty Universe
This has been an issue for me every time I've gotten back, but the universe is so large, and transit so boring, I wish there were a few mechanics to make it a bit smaller (Read: FEEL a bit smaller), so that people could accidentally run into other people more frequently.
This could be solved a number of ways, and I'm sure there are plenty more I haven't thought of. Here are a few:
1. Quick transport options.
Nearly all MMO's use some form of these, because they realize that when you and a friend log on, you don't want to spend half-an-hour just getting to a convenient place to meet up.
2. Interesting Choke points
Sedina comes closest to having all the pieces to make an interesting place for people to run into each other. It has the racetracks, CTC, a number of stations in the vicinity which offer a variety of playable ship builds.... So why is it so empty?
Edras and Latos both have 3 wormholes,
With more Itani and UIT players online, Edras would appear to be the ideal spot. But the limited variation of ship builds supported by the stations in the vicinity make it less than optimal.
Meanwhile, Deneb has incredible action going on... But the devs have managed to place it so far afield of regular traffic, that it just doesn't get the attention it deserves.
3) Unusual PvE, varying by location in the universe
I'm not a big fan of PvE in VO, and I think that's largely because it's always just felt like I'm doing the same things with a different motivation. ("Now you're going to go kill these spheres which shoot red AND blue things at you).
Where are the asteroid-mounted turrets? The Star Wars inspired trench-runs?
These are the sorts of things that can pull a lot of people together. But when you take the same thing (A dynamic hive) and you place it in a number of parts in the universe, people don't NEED to travel to find things. It's already there, so they never run into anyone else.
(And while we're on the subject of PvE... Capital ship battles are still a bit like watching whales sun themselves. Tactics are so complex on a small ship level in this game, there needs to be some way to make capital ship combat more complex than "Get into range and start firing". It seems the most complicated thing to come out of capship battles is "Stacking swarms to break shields.")
-------------------------------------
C) A Group-PvP system where the combat has gone a little stale
I love dueling. It's the one thing that keeps me coming back over and over again.
That being said, in group combat I see a problem with the ease of "repositioning"
The reason why there's very little in the way of formations in this game is that I can move 1500 m to assist a teammate in a manner of seconds. I don't need to be riding my buddy's coat tails to keep the bogeys off him.
By limiting the environment, we allow complex game play to emerge. This is true in many game systems, and no less in this one.
----------------------------------------------
Just a few thoughts, thanks for reading if you did!
And a few follow-up thoughts:
I think in the areas of item variation and group combat, VO has the most to gain from taking a look at MOBA-style games and the balance systems that they've designed.
In MOBA games, combat is fast paced, there is a high level of group strategy, and there are a huge number of ways to customize the user experience.
They also are absurdly popular right now, VO could market its PVP to these kinds of players.
I think in the areas of item variation and group combat, VO has the most to gain from taking a look at MOBA-style games and the balance systems that they've designed.
In MOBA games, combat is fast paced, there is a high level of group strategy, and there are a huge number of ways to customize the user experience.
They also are absurdly popular right now, VO could market its PVP to these kinds of players.
I didn't bother reading this, but I have to say, I am amazed every time you pop up.
I mean, there has to be something worthwhile about you, right? After all, you're like the VO equivalent of the highschool quarterback: even the drama kids like you, because you came to one of the plays once.
Every time I think to myself, "Oh, well, maybe it won't be as bad this time. I mean, it's been years now." And yet, every time, there you are, full of some sort of bizarre faith that everyone wants to hear your worthless opinions. And it's not like your opinions have gotten better. And it's not like you've actually played the game before forming them. Or even that you've gotten a touch more realistic about them.
Nope. They're still the same pointless, poorly thought out shit that you spew into a post as soon as it comes to your head. More often than not, these opinions are more relevant to a doctor trying to diagnose a mental illness brought on by a lifetime of drug abuse than to anyone trying to make a vidoegame, or anyone trying to play a videogame.
PS:
Awww, poow bawby, are you gonna quit if you don't get your way?
Oh, you poor little thing! You don't have a guild to quit with you this time around! Oh man, that sucks. I hope you get through this somehow.
I mean, there has to be something worthwhile about you, right? After all, you're like the VO equivalent of the highschool quarterback: even the drama kids like you, because you came to one of the plays once.
Every time I think to myself, "Oh, well, maybe it won't be as bad this time. I mean, it's been years now." And yet, every time, there you are, full of some sort of bizarre faith that everyone wants to hear your worthless opinions. And it's not like your opinions have gotten better. And it's not like you've actually played the game before forming them. Or even that you've gotten a touch more realistic about them.
Nope. They're still the same pointless, poorly thought out shit that you spew into a post as soon as it comes to your head. More often than not, these opinions are more relevant to a doctor trying to diagnose a mental illness brought on by a lifetime of drug abuse than to anyone trying to make a vidoegame, or anyone trying to play a videogame.
PS:
Awww, poow bawby, are you gonna quit if you don't get your way?
Oh, you poor little thing! You don't have a guild to quit with you this time around! Oh man, that sucks. I hope you get through this somehow.
It's nice to see genka still cares about someone.
But yeah, aside from increased weapon diversity at the expense of balance (which the Devs have long shown they will never sacrifice), this is either drivel or merely pointing out the obvious without a viable fix being suggested.
But yeah, aside from increased weapon diversity at the expense of balance (which the Devs have long shown they will never sacrifice), this is either drivel or merely pointing out the obvious without a viable fix being suggested.
Genka, I see you missed me.
I'm sorry I was gone for so long, you seem bitter. Didn't anyone walk you and give you attention while I was away?
Lecter:
Well, I suggested a number of fixes, and the idea was to promote discussion of those ideas for which I didn't have a fix.
I'm sorry I was gone for so long, you seem bitter. Didn't anyone walk you and give you attention while I was away?
Lecter:
Well, I suggested a number of fixes, and the idea was to promote discussion of those ideas for which I didn't have a fix.
We're working towards goals that will directly-improve or probably-improve almost every issue mentioned in here. But, no, the goals have no yet been achieved (this is where someone chimes in and says "AND YOU NEVARR WILL@!# RARRR. YOU SUUUCK". anyway..).
For example, the varied-PvE, choke points, and more-interesting-universe issues should be greatly improved by the Fogged Sector plans. This will introduce a lot more choke points that I can strategically locate and make interesting in different ways. It basically enables a better "designer toolkit" for me to make the galaxy more interesting, visually, navigationally, strategically and so on.
However, right now, we have not yet solved the long-sector-load-time issue in cases where lots of asteroids are present. This has to be approached on both the client and the server. We just did something like this for missions, to reduce login times (it is not yet released, as of this writing), so we may be able to re-use some of the concepts, but in other ways sector data is pretty unique. Aside from that, we have all the various problems encountered in the testbed "fogged" sectors in Deneb, which we're still resolving. Our pathfinding has even been going off the rails a little bit lately, in really high-density sectors, and may need re-working. So, this "feature" touches on a lot of pieces of code. As much as it may solve a lot of gameplay, it will also break the game and expose problems in different ways, which results in a lot of work.
For the moment, we're still busy trying to fix stuff from the new mission system (hopefully good with the next release).
I'm hoping to get some improved high-density sector gameplay going in the next few months.
Anyway, that's just one example, but I've covered others on here previously as well.
And also, I do appreciate the "first impressions upon returning" kind of overview from veterans. It's good to see what people notice after being away for awhile and then returning, even if total and specific solutions aren't provided to every case. It might not be great if it were super commonplace, obviously we don't want a lot of newbie rants about how they don't like non-optional PvP. But in this case, I don't mind.
For example, the varied-PvE, choke points, and more-interesting-universe issues should be greatly improved by the Fogged Sector plans. This will introduce a lot more choke points that I can strategically locate and make interesting in different ways. It basically enables a better "designer toolkit" for me to make the galaxy more interesting, visually, navigationally, strategically and so on.
However, right now, we have not yet solved the long-sector-load-time issue in cases where lots of asteroids are present. This has to be approached on both the client and the server. We just did something like this for missions, to reduce login times (it is not yet released, as of this writing), so we may be able to re-use some of the concepts, but in other ways sector data is pretty unique. Aside from that, we have all the various problems encountered in the testbed "fogged" sectors in Deneb, which we're still resolving. Our pathfinding has even been going off the rails a little bit lately, in really high-density sectors, and may need re-working. So, this "feature" touches on a lot of pieces of code. As much as it may solve a lot of gameplay, it will also break the game and expose problems in different ways, which results in a lot of work.
For the moment, we're still busy trying to fix stuff from the new mission system (hopefully good with the next release).
I'm hoping to get some improved high-density sector gameplay going in the next few months.
Anyway, that's just one example, but I've covered others on here previously as well.
And also, I do appreciate the "first impressions upon returning" kind of overview from veterans. It's good to see what people notice after being away for awhile and then returning, even if total and specific solutions aren't provided to every case. It might not be great if it were super commonplace, obviously we don't want a lot of newbie rants about how they don't like non-optional PvP. But in this case, I don't mind.
There's been a heck of a lot of player activity in Edras lately. If you were lurking around Sedina and wondering why it's empty, that might be part of why.
Making the RvR system relevant would go a long way towards fixing issues "B" and "C". There was a post about it a long time ago. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Edit: Found it - http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/24299#301686
Edit: Found it - http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/24299#301686
Thanks for the response Inc, I appreciate it.
I think for quick transport something that would drop you in the border and hive skirmishes would be nice, then once the mission ends you go back to the place of origin where you jumped in, this would make levi hunts bigger and remove the need for deneb alts
"but what if someone cheats and takes the mission then just flies around that side of the verse for kicks"
fiddley dee, the mission will end eventually and hopefully at the least convenient moment they will get ripped back to where they started
Also, so what?! if it gets people places quicker for more interaction who gives a crap. every other mmo does it for major player pve why shouldnt we, especially giving how god awful huge the universe is.
As far as your choke point concerns, latos and edras are a choke point all the damn time, you even showed up briefly during one of these moments and for some reason still complained about it, stop it.
"but what if someone cheats and takes the mission then just flies around that side of the verse for kicks"
fiddley dee, the mission will end eventually and hopefully at the least convenient moment they will get ripped back to where they started
Also, so what?! if it gets people places quicker for more interaction who gives a crap. every other mmo does it for major player pve why shouldnt we, especially giving how god awful huge the universe is.
As far as your choke point concerns, latos and edras are a choke point all the damn time, you even showed up briefly during one of these moments and for some reason still complained about it, stop it.
Ghost: That's a really nice suggestion, I like that.
CrazySpence: They're what we have for choke points, they're not ideal.
Edras, Pelatus, not a lot of stations here.
Bractus gets a bit better, and then
Odia and Sedina have the best.
I think the quick transport would easily deal with this problem though.
I mean think about it, how often would people go skiing if they had to walk up the mountain every damn time.
CrazySpence: They're what we have for choke points, they're not ideal.
Edras, Pelatus, not a lot of stations here.
Bractus gets a bit better, and then
Odia and Sedina have the best.
I think the quick transport would easily deal with this problem though.
I mean think about it, how often would people go skiing if they had to walk up the mountain every damn time.
I never ski for this very reason
Does Canada not have lifts?
Skirmish warps could restrict the systems you're allowed to visit to reduce abuse. Fail the mission for anybody who strays beyond those systems. It would also have to not transport cargo.
Skirmish warps could restrict the systems you're allowed to visit to reduce abuse. Fail the mission for anybody who strays beyond those systems. It would also have to not transport cargo.
I was thinking to avoid ship transfers it could just transplant the player from station x to y sans ship. On the way back put the ship in the mission station and return player to original origin station
Yeah I think you should be able to set multiple home stations, like say 3 stations, and you can choose which to spawn at. I don't think thats particularly abuse-able.
EDIT: This could also stop the nationalists from having to make alts just so they dont have to fly to deneb.
EDIT: This could also stop the nationalists from having to make alts just so they dont have to fly to deneb.
^ Hooray, more exploitation of the home station system?
As far as transportation goes, I vote for uberjump 'gates' that float in Edras, Ukari, and Deneb. They transport you to any of the other gates, but reguire a 30 second motionless charge time, and when you land you exit at 500m/s. :D
As far as transportation goes, I vote for uberjump 'gates' that float in Edras, Ukari, and Deneb. They transport you to any of the other gates, but reguire a 30 second motionless charge time, and when you land you exit at 500m/s. :D
more home stations is much more developmentally simple than stargates Nahin. I'll take the multiple home points now, stargates later..
I see there is various complex subjects regarding the direction of the game and pool of ideas. These various topics become complicated yet seem to take away from the overall theme of "Vendetta"
The game and backstory are great but Deneb always seems busted in one way or another. I'm reading all the bug reports which seems like daily new reports on various topics
I noticed the war is basically over, there are some Itani's fighting in Deneb typically many more then Serco, but still too few. While Serco become bored of the noted unbalanced war aspects and various other issues which have been observed and discussed ad naseum. I noticed that very few Itani and Serco left who are even interested in the war and thus the war is basically over. Itani has won in Deneb every single week whether there is players there or not. More Itani then Serco, however still when I log in mostly there is no one there but me.
I've played in Deneb for an entire week on occasion; and did not encounter one single other player.
Regarless of the various issues in Deneb, the main topic is lack of player involvement.
Additionally, as soon as you go all the way to Deneb the one or two players that might login will call you to fight in B8
Having alts just to fight in Deneb and then back to login to another locations is deceptive with regard to how much actual player activity there really is. Low turn out is likely why it's not transparent as to how many actual active players there really is and I don't have a problem with that really but it doesn't take long for anyone to figure this out when they can't find anyone online.
Anyhow I really can't say that I know what the solution is, I wish I could; and yet there is soooooo much potential for Deneb to be the focus point of the theme of "Vendetta" but it's not anymore in my opinion.
It should be called "Vendetta but only if there is any opposing nation players online and then it's called pirate gank busters and pvp duel"
Seem like there should also be a war going on at each and every nation facing wormhole because the nation is defending it's borders.
So there should be huge war fleets fighting in Ukari and Edras wh's at all times
Should be fighting going on there no matter what happens in Deneb.
Don't know if that would do anything for player attraction or activity perhaps not.
And even grey UIT wh's should have wars going on since it's unmonitored and yet no reason Serco and Itani scouts and/or war ships should not be there defending the out rim of the grey wh's
This would likely increase the awareness of the subject of "Vendetta"
Currently grey fighters do not even have to be aware of the Vendetta without reading the backstory they would never even know there was a war going on.
Anyhow, long post I know.
Just wanted to chime in since the title of the post is "Things I wish were different: Thoughts on returning"
I'll keep reading the forums and maybe resubscribe again in 6 months or so.
Happy blogging
The game and backstory are great but Deneb always seems busted in one way or another. I'm reading all the bug reports which seems like daily new reports on various topics
I noticed the war is basically over, there are some Itani's fighting in Deneb typically many more then Serco, but still too few. While Serco become bored of the noted unbalanced war aspects and various other issues which have been observed and discussed ad naseum. I noticed that very few Itani and Serco left who are even interested in the war and thus the war is basically over. Itani has won in Deneb every single week whether there is players there or not. More Itani then Serco, however still when I log in mostly there is no one there but me.
I've played in Deneb for an entire week on occasion; and did not encounter one single other player.
Regarless of the various issues in Deneb, the main topic is lack of player involvement.
Additionally, as soon as you go all the way to Deneb the one or two players that might login will call you to fight in B8
Having alts just to fight in Deneb and then back to login to another locations is deceptive with regard to how much actual player activity there really is. Low turn out is likely why it's not transparent as to how many actual active players there really is and I don't have a problem with that really but it doesn't take long for anyone to figure this out when they can't find anyone online.
Anyhow I really can't say that I know what the solution is, I wish I could; and yet there is soooooo much potential for Deneb to be the focus point of the theme of "Vendetta" but it's not anymore in my opinion.
It should be called "Vendetta but only if there is any opposing nation players online and then it's called pirate gank busters and pvp duel"
Seem like there should also be a war going on at each and every nation facing wormhole because the nation is defending it's borders.
So there should be huge war fleets fighting in Ukari and Edras wh's at all times
Should be fighting going on there no matter what happens in Deneb.
Don't know if that would do anything for player attraction or activity perhaps not.
And even grey UIT wh's should have wars going on since it's unmonitored and yet no reason Serco and Itani scouts and/or war ships should not be there defending the out rim of the grey wh's
This would likely increase the awareness of the subject of "Vendetta"
Currently grey fighters do not even have to be aware of the Vendetta without reading the backstory they would never even know there was a war going on.
Anyhow, long post I know.
Just wanted to chime in since the title of the post is "Things I wish were different: Thoughts on returning"
I'll keep reading the forums and maybe resubscribe again in 6 months or so.
Happy blogging
The war is as alive as you make it, Z.
"I vote for uberjump 'gates' that float in Edras, Ukari, and Deneb. They transport you to any of the other gates,"
+1
"but reguire a 30 second motionless charge time,"
+ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
"and when you land you exit at 500m/s. :D"
-100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
+1
"but reguire a 30 second motionless charge time,"
+ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
"and when you land you exit at 500m/s. :D"
-100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000