In order to give better instant gratification to new players and make it easier to hook new players, I suggest increasing the number of license levels by 2 or 2.5 and have a rapid increase early on. Basically require the same amount of work to use and purchase equipment but have a gradual increase to get there.

As an example, make lvl 1 lvl 10 and simply split the amount of experience needed in one of the categories into 10 parts, so it might take a new player 10 points of experience to reach the first level and gradually slow that down as the levels increase. Also gear that is currently lvl 1 in requirement would change to lvl 10 requirement so that this change is purely cosmetic.

Even if the licenses are largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, it will go along ways in giving new players a sense of accomplishment, and regardless of how superficial it may be. The early instant gratification will go a long ways to hooking a new player, and making them feel stronger. It will also make ship requirements seem more relevant as a lvl 10 requirement to pilot a ship makes the ship sound a lot more worthwhile than a lvl 1, where doing all the work of reaching that first lvl can be quite discouraging. Again, this is purely a superficial suggestion to help hook new players, and should make no real difference in the grand scheme of things.

Admittedly it is human nature to like fast leveling and big numbers but it also needs to be more then a trivial amount of work between levels. Level 1 can be gotten in about 15 minutes with a single mission.

If an adjustment is made, reducing the amount of increase by about a third would help maintain player interest but the requirements for ships and stuff would also need to be increased to keep the overall pace of the game unchanged

I suspect this would be less trivial than it seems as the license requirements for items would have to be changed, many of the missions depend on attaining certain licenses, and there are places in the mission text itself where specific licenses are referenced.

Let's just say, assuming it all works out, that you are granted your wish and the current licenses are divided into ten like millimeters on a meter stick (centimeters would have been the previous measure); I'm not convinced this would be the incentive you imagine. I'm not saying that it wouldn't, but I think Vendetta already got the one critical aspect of the license divisions right; and that is that they are curved. Getting from license 4 to license 7 takes nearly three times the experience as getting from license 0 to license 4. By the time you reach license 14 you will have accrued enough experience to get eleven new players up to license 8.

This follows the pattern of having a greater reward frequency toward the beginning of the game, with the reward spikes growing gradually farther and farther apart. The scale of this curve is somewhat subjective, I'll grant you that, but you could look at it as though patience is a key virtue being cultivated among the user base.

If it's a purely cosmetic effect you're after why not have the game zoom the field of view out to 170 degrees and back to normal over a period of 8 seconds in a sine wave, every time you advance? At the same time the current .ogg music track would synch by slowing down to 1/8 tempo and back.

Um, how about no. When is a person most likely to level up three of the five licenses? During combat. When is the absolute worst time for the GUI to wig out? During combat. Playing a sound effect would be a better idea.

As for changing the numbers: too much hassle.

Why not play the game for a month or so and revisit this when you're more familiar with it. Start a new character to refresh your memory.

To be honest, it doesn't really take you that long to level up enough to get halfway decent equipment. Newbies often don't know what they have until they've long outgrown it.

Its easy to say such things when you have been in the game for a while and barely recall what it was like starting out. As a new player, the best I have to offer is a critique of the games first impression on new players, and what I suggest, if you read carefully, does not alter the actual game play or the amount of time it takes to use equipment but rather gives an early sense of accomplishment to new players and I figured it would be best to do on a curve, lvl 1 could become lvl 10, lvl 2 could become 15, lvl 3 becomes lvl 18, lvl 4 becomes lvl 20, and after that its lvl 5 is 21, lvl 6 is 22 and so on. The biggest thing I noticed when I played was that the license system is actually a bit discouraging in the amount of time it initially takes to see any noticeable change. As an example, I saw a warthog variation (before I learned the tactics necessary to handling bots) that required only 2 points in mining to use, I then spent about 3-4 hours of strait mining missions to get there, I had more than enough cash to show for my effort, but 3-4 hours to reach lvl 2? 3-4 hours to fly the next ship is fine, all I am saying is to spread the licenses out more so that a beginning player does not get discouraged, it will still take the same amount of time and effort to fly the various ships and use the various modules, and I know the change will take days of boring monotonous work to implement, but it will go a long ways in enhancing the new player experience. If you want to keep the community small for the elite few who make it past the initial impression then so be it, but if you want to expand the player base and bring in more players this will help the retention rate of players who try out the game. Right now with Jumpgate Evolution bombing there is a huge opportunity for this game to grow, as it has all the things people were hoping for in jumpgate and then some, it might not be as pretty at first glance but the game play is solid. The real question right now is, do you guys want this game to grow or keep it small? And that is what this change is about. As someone else pointed out, you don't understand what you had until you've outgrown it, I saw this as well, the ships you unlock are more than worth the time and effort put into them as is the equipment, having a larger number on the lvl requirement will make it easier for a player to appreciate the new ships and gear. The amount of work to get them won't change, but the experience off getting there will be considerably less discouraging. As for a sound or visual effect when leveling, I am not against that, but it will not have any where near the amount of effect on the new player as this will. That's my 2 cents, and probably the most valuable contribution a new player can make, and not one an older player will see.

Again, let me re-state, I do not want to decrease the amount of time and effort it takes to unlock ships and gear, I am suggesting a way to make that experience less discouraging. It will also go a long ways toward their appreciation of the ships and gear.

I remember it pretty well, actually, it was only about a year ago. Back then nobody even told me about the Hive Skirmishes (Border Skirmishes didn't give weapons xp when I started, and there was no Gauntlet or Rogue Queen missions either) So I sat in Jallik for hours and hours grinding away at Advanced Combat Practice Fennus Guardians because Tycorp Assaults kicked my ass until i could buy a Valkyrie. THAT part sucked. The earlier combat 1-3 levels didn't.

From what I've heard from older players is that there used to be much less things to do in the early game. Things have gotten better in that regard, but there's *always* going to be someone who's more impatient with a shorter attention span.

Mordeth, may I suggest using paragraphs to convey your ideas? It would make your posting more accessible than simply having a wall of text. I tend to type too quickly, and often end up with poor grammar, however another user recently illustrated to me the difference using good grammar can make.

Back on topic, I think your observation that it takes too long to see noticeable changes as a new player is valid, but I disagree with your proposed solution. Much of the game's infrastructure, and by that I mean missions and equipment, are designed around the current license divisions. The first courier mission provides an experience boost sufficient to raise a new player's Trade license to 1. Have you considered what might happen if this became a jump in 10 levels rather than 1?

It would result in a bug. You have only to log into the test server and take the mission "all license boost" to convince yourself of this, and this is just one example. You are talking about combing all missions for text that references current licenses, changing rewards where necessary and adjusting requirements on all ships and equipment; a major change for something superficial and purely cosmetic.

I think there could be a more elegant solution for the problem you describe, whether it be adjusting the tutorial missions to accurately set player expectations, or improving the initial mission experience once passing the basic flight status test. I also hold to my argument that the scale of license divisions is somewhat subjective; The fact it took me 40 days logged in to work a character up to license 14 makes that in game achievement all the more personally significant, and I appreciate those who are far above me.

Your inference that VO is dominated by a group of elite players that want to keep the community small is false, by my experience. Such an attitude would be counterproductive to the game's survival. It's simply that some of us have been playing for a long time compared to many other games that are out there, and we are a niche community. Whether that makes us elite or not is a matter of perception.

First of all, making level 1 be 10 is absolutely insane. Level 1 is fine where it is. I could see adding one level between each of the levels from 1 to 5, but the kind of inflation you propose is nonsense. Like the idiocy going on with Firefox lately. Durr hurr, let's impress people with our big numbers lololol.

But anyway, even a more sensible renumbering would be more effort than it's worth, as Phaserlight has explained. Rather than add meaningless empty levels and have to do a bunch of work to update things to fit, it would be better to just add more engaging ways to level up. Not necessarily faster ways, just more interesting ones. The point of a game is to have fun. Grinding to build levels is not fun, generally. If a person is busy doing fun missions and stuff, he won't need constant level-up announcements to keep him happy, and he will level up while he has fun.

i have been here about 2 years and for once I even agree with Rin, making the grind up the ladder to be more fun, not easier that in my opion would make the game better for new players

He isn't actually suggesting that it be made easier. He just wants to give people more sense of accomplishment as they grind. They would progress through the levels faster, but the level requirements for ships etc. would all be increased proportionally so that the same amount of actual work is required.

Thanks for taking me seriously pizza, I have to say the elitist attitude of several people in this forum has left me with a rather poor impression of the community. I know I am long winded and I apologize, but it is nice to know a couple people actually bothered to read and think about my suggestion before criticizing it. I have to wonder how much of the criticism is based on the ideas themselves, how much is based on it not being the posters idea (disagreeable for the sake of disagreement, could be wrong but it looks like there's a lot of that), and how much of it is just a total lack of respect because I am a new player and a prejudice mind set that I couldn't possibly have anything worthwhile to say. In any event, it only looks like less than half the people posting actually looked at the idea before bashing it, a bit counter productive.

I will re-state that the actual gradient done is not as important as something being done. The major issue is that the initial impression of the game does not grab a new player, but rather players have to push past the initial impression to get into the game. If it wasn't for disappointment with jumpgate bombing, and black prophecy turning out to be lame in spite of all the pretty graphics, and the amount of work I went through to find a game like this, space based flight sim mmo with depth, I never would have made it out of the special training zone.

To put my initial impression of the game in a way that might prove more conducive to accomplishing something rather than arguing for the sake of getting attention (not everybody, but those who have know who they are) I will divide it into segments.

First turn off was the graphics, I had to play the game before I realized the graphics were actually quite good, but at a distance the textures of buildings, asteroids, ships, and other objects look like late 90's arcade graphics, its only when you get up close do you see the real depth. I am no artist, and I have nothing to contribute on this which is why I posted nothing, but for the sake of giving the game a proper critique I put it here.

Next, also graphics related, the menu's when docked or looking at the PDA lack texture and style, they are functional, though the interface could use some remodeling, it is an aesthetic turnoff to a new player. While graphics related, it is a slightly different issue then the one above. I am no artist and I have nothing to contribute, but if anyone has a suggestion for improving this, it will help the new player experience.

Lastly, what I considered to be the biggest turnoff in a players first days, or hours playing, is a very dull and heavy grind. I liked Pizzas idea of adding more engaging methods of advancement. A little more variety with the missions in the capital stations where new players start might go a long ways, especially if they have depth beyond a "go kill so many of this". My first suggestion on that one is a mission that explains and demonstrates the bot roll, with the player forced to stand still and watch a couple seconds of it done by an npc as it is the most basic starting maneuver and can make it much easier for a new player to advance. I still stand by spreading out the licenses, the lvl 1 being lvl 10 was more to give an idea of what I meant than to be the solution itself. The major thing is to ask "how long will it take the average new player to grind this?" and spread it accordingly. Personally I think an initial 1 hr grind should give a number between 5 and 10 for the average player, and as I said before, without changing the amount of experience needed to accomplish or unlock anything. Do not discount the value of the starting instant gratification, a player who just starts and plays 2 hours strait should be able to walk away feeling like they accomplished something, weather or not they actually accomplished something is not the issue. I don't doubt that it would take a lot of work to implement, but as an old hard core gamer I know what I'm talking about when I say it will make a huge difference in getting new players into the game. If it takes weeks or months to make happen, it is still worth doing.

Let me reiterate, the amount of experience and time spent to unlock gear or get an award, standings, or anything of substance should not change. Do not underestimate the power of such a superficial ruse.

We can be kind of hostile sometimes. We periodically get people who show up here in the forum and make really bad suggestions, yet are convinced that they are the messiah and only their suggestions can save the game. They frequently employ the "well, if you want to stay small...." line, as well as the "I have played games for years" line, accusations of elitism, etc. So saying things like that is a good way to get off on the wrong foot.

Some in-game demonstrations of how to conduct combat, dock, etc. are something that we really do need, and has been suggested many times. Over the last year the devs have implemented a number of features that will make that a lot more feasible to actually do than it used to be. They say they have a lot of improvements to the training missions that they will be making eventually. I think some of them have already been implemented on the Android version, but haven't been backported to the desktop versions yet.

-1

As licenses currently go, each time you level up you unlock cool new things (at least at the lower levels anyway). To change the distribution of licenses without changing the effort to unlock things means that a player would reach a higher license but not have anything new become available. Thinking back to when I was a new player, running around checking stations after leveling up and not finding anything new would frustrate me.

Plus, the way the licenses are now, almost everything has single-digit license requirements. Not only does this make remembering license requirements for various ships/items easier, but keeps the number of characters required to type out a license compact. For instance, the Behemoth has a license requirement of -/-/-/8/4, and that is easy to remember. If the license requirement were changed to something like -/-/-/28/17, remembering it is not as easy anymore.

I think what you are failing to grasp is that one of the best things about VO is that it is skill based, and licenses don't really matter too much once you've unlocked some of the basic gear.

Actually, I'd be all for more engaging missions for all levels.

Mordeth, it's really not that much of a grind for the first few levels. It COULD be made a lot more interesting; I think you probably wouldn't notice the grind so much if missions represented a kind of story. It's AFTER about level 8-10 across the board that things can feel like a grind, because for the moment, we have only the badges to pursue. Some of them can be rather perplexing.

And don't worry about those with that "elite" kind of attitude. They're in every game. The trick is to ignore them and see the game with YOUR eyes, not theirs.

-1 for making levels easier
+1 for more engaging missions (for all levels)

This will probably get shot down, but I'll throw it out anyways.

low level pvp missions in specific areas.

Take one square out of the grid near a capital in each racial territory and designate it as a noob training ground that can only be safely entered with a coinciding mission to kill other players. Also put ship class restrictions and module restrictions for entering the zone, but keep a large availability for being open to the first several ranks, say to rank 5 combat as a limit. It would be a more entertaining way to get licenses up, and it could be restricted to the free ship and free gear only and open to all players. No doubt you guys will hate the idea, but I'll stick my nuts out again and see if they get kicked

Hi Mordeth, welcome. I'll come back and read this thread in more depth, I only have time to skim it right now. I definitely agree with the need for re-factoring some aspects of the early game (in particular, I want to add more early availability of grouped PvE play and gathering users together, as well as showing some crafting/drop stuff.. collect some newbie bot drops and improve your weapons or whatever).

The concept of giving more positive feedback and game progress at early stages is also worthwhile. But, even within the existing framework, giving the new users more direction and stuff to acquire would probably be helpful. Badges and things are independent of level frameworks, too.

Anyway, I'll be back to read more of the specific modification discussions in the thread.