I propose that a third type of key be introduced for conquerable stations. A character with a "Controller Key" would be able to give out and revoke owner keys and user keys, and would be able to give out Controller Keys. Characters with Owner Keys would then only be able to give out and revoke user keys. When a station's defenses are defeated and a character docks and creates a new key, that character would be given a Controller Key.

I'm not trying to make things unnecessarily complex, but this change seems to be needed. It would make organization between large groups of cooperating players much easier.

I like the idea, but the name isn't quite right, we need something more intuitive.

I had come up with something for tridents here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23479

I don't think it would be exactly right for the stations, but hopefully it'll at least help somebody else come up with a more intuitive naming system for the station keys.

Yeah. I was going to say that the names of the keys may need to be changed. Whatever names everyone likes is fine with me.

Aye, I can see the use of that.

How about Master Keys ? Follows the nomenclature usually used for locks .

Wouldn't the "Controller" of a station be the one that only hands out the user keys?

Ecka's idea of naming the new one "Master Key" works nicely because it avoids changing the names of the 2 existing keys, which will minimize confusion. The names aren't really important though.

+1 LNH

+1 also make it so that if only one person has a owner or master/controller key they can delete it (if we can't already)

Well, what would be really useful from a master key would be the ability to set a universal group of keys by guild or nation.

Such as Latos i8 master [VPR],[TGFT]

or deneb a1 master [Serco]

The latter will hopefully be of use soon. Added refinements such as the facility to make the nation [military only] or [neutral or better ] would be very welcome.

Can I ask what the actual use-cases are that this is intended to improve?

The original Owner/User key paradigm had the intent of expanding User key options to allow a lot of variability on what the different individual keys could do, based on how the Owner would set them. I'm just wondering if there might be another way to solve the intended issues, without having to overhaul the key system too extensively.

Maybe another topic, but this seems directly related to
ConqSt: Givekey to {Guild,Nation} option.

I don't see a need for adding another key "above" owner key.

But having 2/3 keyrings {personal/nation[/guild]} could add many possibilities, as proposed there.

The issue is that owner keys have a way of spreading like wildfire. Let's say a guild claims ownership of a station. They want all their friends to have access. However, it can be hard to give out user keys to every member of every friendly guild, especially since rosters frequently change. If we start giving out owner keys to help spread the work around, those people then have as much power as we do. We can make them promise not to give out owner keys to anyone without our permission, but that's stupid, and doesn't always work. Eventually, everyone has keys to the station, including our enemies, and we have to reconquer the station and start over with a new key. The alternative is to not give out many owner keys and just handle all the key distribution ourselves, which can be slow.

With a new level of key, it would allow us to distribute owner keys (as they are currently called) to a lot of people and keep just a few "Controller Keys" all within the top ranks of the guild. All the people with owner keys can give out user keys to people in their guild, but can't give out owner keys, so the problem of owner keys spreading is solved. If someone with an owner key starts giving out user keys to people we don't want them to, not only can we revoke the user keys, but we can revoke that person's owner key as well, which is something we can' t do now.

It just gives us an extra level of control and allows for better administration. I think it's the best and simplest solution. Like I've said, right now, just about every guild that "owns" a station gives out owner keys to other people who promise not to give out owner keys. We basically are simulating this suggested game feature on our own, so why not throw it in the game?

Having the ability to give keys to entire guilds or nations with a single click would be very nice, but in addition to this, not instead of it.

However, it can be hard to give out user keys to every member of every friendly guild,
Guild keychain and Givekey to Guild is a direct solution. If someone leaves guild, no longer have key, no need to revoke.

If I understood your solution, probably instead of 'above' owner, create a position 'below', able to give user keys, subscribed to his key. Name it "leader key".

So when revoke this leader key, all keys that he gave are also revoked.

This is similar to how is done with SSL certificates / CA.

Yeah, Alloh. The better solution to the problem Strat just described is to be able to give individual user keys the ability to add and delete other's user keys. Hopefully you could add constraints on which people they could deal with it.

Yeah, there really does need to be a 3rd echelon to the key system for massive group integration. The way it is now a controlling guild couldn't revoke another guilds owner key if say things between their guilds became hostile. They would be forced to retake the station and then redistribute keys to every other guild except that guild. I give a +1 to Strats idea.

+1 to Strat's or Alloh's (both guild keys and a key between User/Owner), either one.

+1 for One Key To Rule Them All.

Although with the options inc mentioned it wouldn't be necessary to depreciate the value of the current owner keys to the point it has been done..

I think this would solve the problem we're currently facing perfectly. The issue, currently is that there is a loose confederation of guilds that mostly provide each other with access to their stations.

Some of those guilds are nationalist. At least one allows nationalists on both sides in its ranks. Some of those guilds are anti-pirate. Others are fairly friendly with pirates. I think everyone involved in this coalition would like those guilds to be able to handle distributing user keys, but have the ability to revoke that privilege in the event of someone handing out keys to their enemies.

I actually agree with strat on this.

I agree with strat. I've found myself with a owner key and then I only give out user keys... seems like owner keys have too much power noPr