Forums » Suggestions
The Real State of Vendetta pvp
so guys i didn't write an e-mail to the devs and i have logged in within the past year and i totally think the corvult needs a nerf. EVERYONE flew it today in nation war and it is well known that the corvult is a 1v1 ship not a group combat ship so like why did everyone fly it?
Cause its hard as hell to hit. Yep vults are too skinny cross wise I say make the model a bit fatter and it will be balanced.
also for all you newbs that are worried about the nations being homoginous you can't have one nation that is uber at group combat and one that is uber at 1v1 combat and call it balance cause THOSE AREN'T THE SAME THING.
the easiest way to explain it is in rts where unit 1 does damage type A but is vulnerable to damage tybes B and C. but this is not an rts game its a psuedo-fps game so we need to look at how FPS games balance their weapons.
you have your sub guns, very light fast rate of fire and not very acurate but with decent range and about the same damage as a assault rifle
then assault rifles decent rate of fire, moderate weight, good range, accurate. good damage
then sniper rifes, slow rate of fire, very accurate, heavy, long range, very high damage.
then machine gun, high rate of fire, not very accurate heavy, mid range, high damage
since you cannot move your ship any faster then what it's stats are (unlike most fps games where you move faster with a sub machine gun then a sniper or machine gun) the weight in the fps games needs to be transfered into the speed of the projectile so ravens (to make them not as useless on their own compared to having them combined with an aap or neut) need to be faster then neuts or aaps
this is why there needs to be ship classes and people need to drop the hypocritical argument of saying "x ship is fighter" and then tell newbs on 100 that there are no ship classes. The devs seem to sort of be doing this anyways with the introduction of the greyhound. It chases, thats what it does, or the moths which really aren't useful in pvp.
but the problem is then that we have ships like the taur and maurader and the valk. We are constantly trying to balance things on a class system then claim that there are no classes. This argument over whether the taur is a trade ship or a combat ship comes up countless times, or if the valk is a fighter or chaser. I would like to point out that ships could easily fill both roles if such "nerfs" where applied to them as costing a whole bunch of money. Having uber equipment is not the problem, having an over abundance of it is and then complaining when it beats the snot out of things its not even supposed to be compared too.
So now I present to you my proposed classes for vo:
Fighter
Bomber
Tank
Chaser
Trade
Mining.
I propose that a basic level ship decides to be ONE of those while special nation ships or really expensive ones get to chose 2 or perphaps in very rare circumstances 3 of those classes. Now for the prom/valk debate
the prom is a fighter/chaser no doubt but the prom is supposed to be a fighter/bomber but it has some tank tendencies. I suggest we turn the prom into a tank/bomber by giving it another large port and cutting its maneuverability and adding some more armor. then ad a ship for serco that is a chaser/bomber and one for itani that is a bomber/fighter.
sorry for that rambling post but i had to say something!
Cause its hard as hell to hit. Yep vults are too skinny cross wise I say make the model a bit fatter and it will be balanced.
also for all you newbs that are worried about the nations being homoginous you can't have one nation that is uber at group combat and one that is uber at 1v1 combat and call it balance cause THOSE AREN'T THE SAME THING.
the easiest way to explain it is in rts where unit 1 does damage type A but is vulnerable to damage tybes B and C. but this is not an rts game its a psuedo-fps game so we need to look at how FPS games balance their weapons.
you have your sub guns, very light fast rate of fire and not very acurate but with decent range and about the same damage as a assault rifle
then assault rifles decent rate of fire, moderate weight, good range, accurate. good damage
then sniper rifes, slow rate of fire, very accurate, heavy, long range, very high damage.
then machine gun, high rate of fire, not very accurate heavy, mid range, high damage
since you cannot move your ship any faster then what it's stats are (unlike most fps games where you move faster with a sub machine gun then a sniper or machine gun) the weight in the fps games needs to be transfered into the speed of the projectile so ravens (to make them not as useless on their own compared to having them combined with an aap or neut) need to be faster then neuts or aaps
this is why there needs to be ship classes and people need to drop the hypocritical argument of saying "x ship is fighter" and then tell newbs on 100 that there are no ship classes. The devs seem to sort of be doing this anyways with the introduction of the greyhound. It chases, thats what it does, or the moths which really aren't useful in pvp.
but the problem is then that we have ships like the taur and maurader and the valk. We are constantly trying to balance things on a class system then claim that there are no classes. This argument over whether the taur is a trade ship or a combat ship comes up countless times, or if the valk is a fighter or chaser. I would like to point out that ships could easily fill both roles if such "nerfs" where applied to them as costing a whole bunch of money. Having uber equipment is not the problem, having an over abundance of it is and then complaining when it beats the snot out of things its not even supposed to be compared too.
So now I present to you my proposed classes for vo:
Fighter
Bomber
Tank
Chaser
Trade
Mining.
I propose that a basic level ship decides to be ONE of those while special nation ships or really expensive ones get to chose 2 or perphaps in very rare circumstances 3 of those classes. Now for the prom/valk debate
the prom is a fighter/chaser no doubt but the prom is supposed to be a fighter/bomber but it has some tank tendencies. I suggest we turn the prom into a tank/bomber by giving it another large port and cutting its maneuverability and adding some more armor. then ad a ship for serco that is a chaser/bomber and one for itani that is a bomber/fighter.
sorry for that rambling post but i had to say something!
I thought that it was a little silly that so many people brought CVs today. The new SVG has some strong potential advantages over CVs in group combat but for some reason I was the only was who brought one. Also, IBGs/Rev Cs have the advantage of being slightly more agile and not having the huge top/bottom profile that vults do. (I know a number of vult pilots in today's NW suffered because of their fatty side top/bottom profile.)
But this is very true:
also for all you newbs that are worried about the nations being homoginous you can't have one nation that is uber at group combat and one that is uber at 1v1 combat and call it balance
But this is very true:
also for all you newbs that are worried about the nations being homoginous you can't have one nation that is uber at group combat and one that is uber at 1v1 combat and call it balance
"you can't have one nation that is uber at group combat and one that is uber at 1v1 combat and call it balance"
...this is exactly what the other thread is about.
The idea that the corvus vult needs a nerf is pretty inane. I'm hoping he was being facetious.
Yes, we do need ship classes. That's been being suggested for years. The problem is that there's no role for the class until new content/mechanics are added. What good is a tank when you have no need to attack it? What good is an assault craft with no reason to maintain control of an area? We barely even have a role for a bomber at this point. The only class Vendetta has a use for at the moment is a fighter/interceptor. Hence, we have a bunch of fighters and interceptors. We have to add the role before we add the class to fill the role.
The prom is not supposed to be a fighter/bomber. It's an assault ship. These are two very different things. The purpose of an assault ship is to take and/or keep control of an area or objective on the battlefield. The prom was never intended to be used for bombing. Vendetta does not have a true bomber at the moment.
...this is exactly what the other thread is about.
The idea that the corvus vult needs a nerf is pretty inane. I'm hoping he was being facetious.
Yes, we do need ship classes. That's been being suggested for years. The problem is that there's no role for the class until new content/mechanics are added. What good is a tank when you have no need to attack it? What good is an assault craft with no reason to maintain control of an area? We barely even have a role for a bomber at this point. The only class Vendetta has a use for at the moment is a fighter/interceptor. Hence, we have a bunch of fighters and interceptors. We have to add the role before we add the class to fill the role.
The prom is not supposed to be a fighter/bomber. It's an assault ship. These are two very different things. The purpose of an assault ship is to take and/or keep control of an area or objective on the battlefield. The prom was never intended to be used for bombing. Vendetta does not have a true bomber at the moment.
uh ghostie im pretty sure it says in the proms discription that it is a bomber (it says so in game and on the wiki) granted it does have a 1 large two small layout which is not very condusive to bombing.
This is the in game description:
The Serco Prometheus forms the backbone of the Serco Dominion Military. Built from the ground up as a heavy assault ship, the SkyCommand variant features layers of xi-rite armor thicker than any other craft short of the capital-class warship. Serco engineers are rumored to have started the Prometheus' design by retrofitting a frigate engine into the framework of a relatively tiny fighter-size frame, then sheathed it in xi-rite alloys. The product is the heaviest hitter of the single-pilot warships, a vessel small enough to be deployed like a fighter craft, but capable of handling massive loads with minimal battle performance degradation. Although it will never match the easy maneuverability of its lighter cousin, the Vulture, it can handle a variety of heavy cargo and weapons while still remaining relatively light on its feet.
The Serco Prometheus forms the backbone of the Serco Dominion Military. Built from the ground up as a heavy assault ship, the SkyCommand variant features layers of xi-rite armor thicker than any other craft short of the capital-class warship. Serco engineers are rumored to have started the Prometheus' design by retrofitting a frigate engine into the framework of a relatively tiny fighter-size frame, then sheathed it in xi-rite alloys. The product is the heaviest hitter of the single-pilot warships, a vessel small enough to be deployed like a fighter craft, but capable of handling massive loads with minimal battle performance degradation. Although it will never match the easy maneuverability of its lighter cousin, the Vulture, it can handle a variety of heavy cargo and weapons while still remaining relatively light on its feet.
Ghostie, as STFUs go, that one was pretty good.
oh yeah shedu you guys sure told me cause you know it doesn't say A heavily armored ship designed for bombing. right on the damn wiki
The wiki is known to be out of date or incorrect.
Ok now that the resident douche has weighed in can we return to discussing the merits of a class based system and stop arguing over the proms bombing abilities or lack thereof. If the prom is going to be a tank/fighter is it too much to ask for a tank/chaser or a bomber/chaser for search and the reverse for serco
It only would make sense talk about a bomber if we had another weapon, so big it won't fit any of today's ship.
As an example, make Avalons Torpedoes not fit in Lports. It requires a dedicated ship, or mod, without S/L ports, only turrets and Avalon hardpoints. Or at least 3 Lports, and some weapons that required 2 Lports.
Until that, 'bombers' here are closer to Attack ships, or at most Tactical bombers, or, comparing to RL, a Ragnarok is closer to an A10 than a B52/B1. And notice the Prom is even less armed (2s1L) than a centaur (1s2L).
For me, overall, cargo ships are too fast, and interceptors are too slow. While fighters should have no storage, miners should have only defense turrets.
Therefore, back to OP, classes of ships will require a complete re-thinking of all VO ships, since almost all are not built for one job, instead, they are generalists.
But I support the idea of classes. But make them:
-Fighters: manouvreable and light
-Attack: armoured and heavyly armed
-Interceptors: fastest ships in straight line
-Bombers: big, slow and built around heavy guns. Cappie killer.
====Above here should only [1...6]cu storage====
-All-purpose ships: with weapons and avg storage, just like now existing ships. Storage range [10...50]cu.
-Cargo ships, without any offensive firepower but turrets, from small as a bus to big as a connie. Storage range [25...250]cu.
-Miners, modified cargo ships.
As an example, make Avalons Torpedoes not fit in Lports. It requires a dedicated ship, or mod, without S/L ports, only turrets and Avalon hardpoints. Or at least 3 Lports, and some weapons that required 2 Lports.
Until that, 'bombers' here are closer to Attack ships, or at most Tactical bombers, or, comparing to RL, a Ragnarok is closer to an A10 than a B52/B1. And notice the Prom is even less armed (2s1L) than a centaur (1s2L).
For me, overall, cargo ships are too fast, and interceptors are too slow. While fighters should have no storage, miners should have only defense turrets.
Therefore, back to OP, classes of ships will require a complete re-thinking of all VO ships, since almost all are not built for one job, instead, they are generalists.
But I support the idea of classes. But make them:
-Fighters: manouvreable and light
-Attack: armoured and heavyly armed
-Interceptors: fastest ships in straight line
-Bombers: big, slow and built around heavy guns. Cappie killer.
====Above here should only [1...6]cu storage====
-All-purpose ships: with weapons and avg storage, just like now existing ships. Storage range [10...50]cu.
-Cargo ships, without any offensive firepower but turrets, from small as a bus to big as a connie. Storage range [25...250]cu.
-Miners, modified cargo ships.
More specialization is always good. I just think we need to create a better role for attack ships and bombers before we design ships for those purposes. Once we have a better idea of the specifics of the role, we can more accurately tweak the ships to fill the role.
Create a ship that fits a role.
For me makes no sense that I can use a (rag,taur,etc) to combat the hive, PvP, trade and mine...
But this requires a looooong discussion and balancing.
Later than Soon(tm)
For me makes no sense that I can use a (rag,taur,etc) to combat the hive, PvP, trade and mine...
But this requires a looooong discussion and balancing.
Later than Soon(tm)