Forums » Suggestions
Beyond the behemoth
Trade should be about more than just flying a ship between ports and dodging pirates. Players should be able to own or lease manufacturing and routes, enabling them to create player and / or npc missions to procure or deliver raw materials and finished product to and from their base station.
The players wealth should be at stake in this endeavor. Success should incur income growth at a rate better than a player can attain by simply trading. Losses should take several successes to recover from.
The player is liable to put up all expenses for npc ships as well as the cost of goods. The player will pay for npc repairs as well as rebuy destroyed ships automatically. This is because I believe the business should be persistent whether the player is online or no.
If the player runs out of credits, then the business fails. The player can sell a failing business at a loss either to another player or back to the game to retain what they have left in credits.
Successful players would be able to buy additional businesses and continue to grow their wealth indefinitely.
This is just a rough sketch of what I have in mind since I'm in a bit of a rush. By the use of 'players' I am meaning both single wealthy players as well as guilds. Preferably guilds.
The players wealth should be at stake in this endeavor. Success should incur income growth at a rate better than a player can attain by simply trading. Losses should take several successes to recover from.
The player is liable to put up all expenses for npc ships as well as the cost of goods. The player will pay for npc repairs as well as rebuy destroyed ships automatically. This is because I believe the business should be persistent whether the player is online or no.
If the player runs out of credits, then the business fails. The player can sell a failing business at a loss either to another player or back to the game to retain what they have left in credits.
Successful players would be able to buy additional businesses and continue to grow their wealth indefinitely.
This is just a rough sketch of what I have in mind since I'm in a bit of a rush. By the use of 'players' I am meaning both single wealthy players as well as guilds. Preferably guilds.
I like this idea, I don't think it... (or anything, for that matter)... should be limited to guilds though. I only mention this because you say, "Preferably guilds." But, overall I strongly agree with this.
It might also work with mining, having the option of renting/buying a small to large mining company/"fleet" of ships, have the option to keep them stock or upgrade them. It could lead to interesting situations if rival pilots or guilds sent their fleets to the same system or roids.
Actually, this could be a jumping off point for a lot of PC/NPC or PC/PC interaction.
It might also work with mining, having the option of renting/buying a small to large mining company/"fleet" of ships, have the option to keep them stock or upgrade them. It could lead to interesting situations if rival pilots or guilds sent their fleets to the same system or roids.
Actually, this could be a jumping off point for a lot of PC/NPC or PC/PC interaction.
Right now there really *isn't* a "trade" system, as I'd use the word anyhow. Instead, we have *trucking*. Buy items at one station, truck them over to another station and sell them. If you're a competent note-taker, and don't get jumped by pirates, you profit.
There are only two points of risk here:
1. You pick a bad item, price or route and can't make a profit. This is rare because even a few scribbles on a Post-It can keep this from happening.
2. You lose your cargo. This is also rare in my experience, since you can go for days without seeing another pilot and some very lucrative routes can be found in-system, keeping your exposure (and travel time) quite low.
This is certainly profitable (even trucking commodities between two stations in the same system can get you 800+ credits/cu profit), but lacks any real strategy or depth.
When I think "Trade", I think speculation, player-established prices and a meaningful manufacturing/crafting system, none of which we have now.
There are only two points of risk here:
1. You pick a bad item, price or route and can't make a profit. This is rare because even a few scribbles on a Post-It can keep this from happening.
2. You lose your cargo. This is also rare in my experience, since you can go for days without seeing another pilot and some very lucrative routes can be found in-system, keeping your exposure (and travel time) quite low.
This is certainly profitable (even trucking commodities between two stations in the same system can get you 800+ credits/cu profit), but lacks any real strategy or depth.
When I think "Trade", I think speculation, player-established prices and a meaningful manufacturing/crafting system, none of which we have now.
We're space truckin' round the the stars
Come on
Come on
Come on
Let's go Space Trucking...
--/--
What if players and guilds could own factories?
They must keep feeding it with materials to produce one commodity, that players bots from nations come to buy. And
if factory is not fed, simply its production stops.
On a later stage one can hire NPCs or Bots to feed its factory autmatically. And guards...
And the factory is built like a big container attached to existing and conquerable stations.
This could finally make stations look as big as they should!
And Guild Software sells cosmetic upgrades to it, even accepting user provided content.
I wanna own a factory, and would pay a few dollars to have my stamp on its sides!
Also, I already proposed a few missions where you could hire a convoy, that follows you, but PCC cannot enable you to deliver the goods for the NPCs carry. This should be great, a convoy of haulers that follow player's order and help hauling its goods!
Come on
Come on
Come on
Let's go Space Trucking...
--/--
What if players and guilds could own factories?
They must keep feeding it with materials to produce one commodity, that players bots from nations come to buy. And
if factory is not fed, simply its production stops.
On a later stage one can hire NPCs or Bots to feed its factory autmatically. And guards...
And the factory is built like a big container attached to existing and conquerable stations.
This could finally make stations look as big as they should!
And Guild Software sells cosmetic upgrades to it, even accepting user provided content.
I wanna own a factory, and would pay a few dollars to have my stamp on its sides!
Also, I already proposed a few missions where you could hire a convoy, that follows you, but PCC cannot enable you to deliver the goods for the NPCs carry. This should be great, a convoy of haulers that follow player's order and help hauling its goods!
We need mining fleets!
Vordark,
One of the crucial needs and, if I understand correctly, one of the key goals of the economic redux that's been going on for the last couple of years is to reduce same system trading down to new players learning the game.
Now, I'm not a fan of and generally don't do more than test the 5+ wh trades, but I do believe that the average trade should be at least 1 to 3 wh's.
Ryan, I emphasize guilds because I'd love to see more group oriented activities for VO in more than just a pure combat facility. I would not want this idea to become guild only by any means. So while a single player should be able to take advantage, a group would have an easier time by sharing the work, cost and risk.
+1 for mining fleets
One of the crucial needs and, if I understand correctly, one of the key goals of the economic redux that's been going on for the last couple of years is to reduce same system trading down to new players learning the game.
Now, I'm not a fan of and generally don't do more than test the 5+ wh trades, but I do believe that the average trade should be at least 1 to 3 wh's.
Ryan, I emphasize guilds because I'd love to see more group oriented activities for VO in more than just a pure combat facility. I would not want this idea to become guild only by any means. So while a single player should be able to take advantage, a group would have an easier time by sharing the work, cost and risk.
+1 for mining fleets
+1
Fluffy: I was pointing out the reality of the game today, in that we do not have anything I would call "trade". Instead we have "trucking". Making trucking more inconvenient isn't a way to bring trade to VO.
True "trade" needs something in the economy that is actually player-driven.
Right now, all prices are set by the NPCs. All the players do is take advantage of a disparity in prices between one NPC station and another. This requires a minimal amount of research, a few simple notes and some flying time. Adding more jumps to this system will certainly make it more annoying, but not more engaging. Make it annoying enough and most everyone will just grind escort missions.
Also, there are precious few items that a player can provide than NPCs cannot, and those few things that can be give such a minimal benefit over easily-purchased items that people aren't rushing to make them.
Finally, there is no game-mechanics supported means of negotiating player trades. Instead, you have a "faith-based" system where you either find a trusted third-party to broker the deal, or one of you is hoping that they won't get screwed.
Until you have some of this stuff, you're not doing anything more than playing a space-themed version of DopeWars.
True "trade" needs something in the economy that is actually player-driven.
Right now, all prices are set by the NPCs. All the players do is take advantage of a disparity in prices between one NPC station and another. This requires a minimal amount of research, a few simple notes and some flying time. Adding more jumps to this system will certainly make it more annoying, but not more engaging. Make it annoying enough and most everyone will just grind escort missions.
Also, there are precious few items that a player can provide than NPCs cannot, and those few things that can be give such a minimal benefit over easily-purchased items that people aren't rushing to make them.
Finally, there is no game-mechanics supported means of negotiating player trades. Instead, you have a "faith-based" system where you either find a trusted third-party to broker the deal, or one of you is hoping that they won't get screwed.
Until you have some of this stuff, you're not doing anything more than playing a space-themed version of DopeWars.
"Finally, there is no game-mechanics supported means of negotiating player trades. Instead, you have a "faith-based" system where you either find a trusted third-party to broker the deal, or one of you is hoping that they won't get screwed."
Vordark, this thread has some trade related ideas that you may find interesting or have ideas for improving.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/22434
Vordark, this thread has some trade related ideas that you may find interesting or have ideas for improving.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/22434
Ryan: I've seen that and I really think that the other players have said everything necessary on the subject. Not at least being able to trade items to another player in the same station seems quite absurd to me.