Active Player List : Position Summaries.

There appears to be some confusion / disagreement over what the problem was with the old Active Player List, why it needed to go, and what we should allow in the future.

This thread is an open thread to post your position on the topic.

Rules of thread:

1. You are only allowed to talk about your opinion, and why you have that opinion. You may not agree, disagree, or otherwise even make reference to anyone else's opinion on the matter.

2. Please make only one post per person. Date the most recent edit.

3. Ignore trolls.

Edit: It isn't that I do not want you to agree or disagree with someone else, it is that someone else might edit what you referenced. It would be nice if you could restate the position, so that it reflects your understanding and your position. Also, feel free to cross link to other threads related to this topic. Especially if you are suggesting something significantly new and/or sophisticated.

Edit 2010-May-23 11:06PM

= History =

The Active Player Page at one time listed all characters currently logged into the game. It was updated in real time.

This was then changed to list only graphs of usage.

= Position =

== Alternate character discovery ==

The old apl was updated in real time, and thus used to discover alts. This is in conflict with those that with to maintain separation of identity between characters on their own account.

I am glad alt discovery has been limited. I consider this to be an important issue. I do play alts, and I do like my alts to maintain individual identities without being directly associated with each other.

== Stalking ==

Some players are worried about being stalked, or stalkers are worried about being avoided. The game make sufficient provision for safety. Anyone that is worried about being stalked can engage in the safer aspects of the game. My major concern here is those people that wish to venture out from the safe areas should have at least some period in which to conduct covert activities, as should those hunting them. Traders, pirates, and patrols, are in the business of playing cat and mouse, and I think they should be allowed to do so.

== Activity ==

I think that the active players page is much too sedate. Even if you have a hundred or a thousand players on, it just doesn't look very active. It should show some kind of recent activity. It could be almost anything, as long as it looks recent, and looks like fun. Indication that there is traffic on channel 100, there are battles being won and lost, almost anything that looks like "Activity".
see: http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23315

I didn't see any problem with the old apl

Could this sort of retardedness be moved to OT?

Also, go fuck yourself w/r/t your rules. tyia

The APL did not have an impact on whether or not I logged on. I did use it to choose which character I wanted to play. Ie. There is no point logging on as a pirate if there are already 6 of the buggers on :P Or if the game was loaded down with Itani, I would log onto my Serco alt.

I can live with or without the APL. However, if it is restored, or something like Atice's suggestion is made available, I would use it for the same purpose I did in the past.

I didn't mind it, though I enjoy that people can run silent now if they want. Allowing people to hunt silently means there is more surprise, and adds to the "immersive" feel when I play. It's removal also makes VO less of a giant chat room and more of a game, which I approve of.

Added a couple minutes after initial posting:
also, the fact that alts are less discoverable is probably a good thing. makes the verse seem more populated.

Added in response to endercp12's 11:03PM post:
To clarify, I am not pro-APL. I very much like the lack of APL. I am, however, pro making public data more accessible than it currently is.

I saw no problem with the old APL. I would like to see more on the Active Players page. I like the RPL idea and I believe it doesn't go against any reason the old APL was removed. I'm not trying to quote you Roda, but I think more than just the RPL on the Active Players page would be interesting as well.

uh roda has already posted three times. I thought we only got one post?

breaking the rules has never been so cool

My position on reintroducing a version of the APL:

I do not want or endorse bringing back the APL or any version no matter what it is called. If a lot of folk believe that we really need some type of APL or anything similar then compromise, give them a list that indicates the number of people, sorted by nation who have been on in the last hour or two.

Leave individual information out of it... simply because by clicking on a name you can get some what personal information about the pilot.
i.e... Name Nation Licenses* Kills Deaths Missions completed.

Breaking it up this way would give people a sense of roughly how many people are on, and theoretically what may be going on, e.g... if twenty Serco and twenty Itani were on, one could conclude that the potentiality of nationalistic combat or perhaps a furball is higher.

The Devs could even add how many deaths per hour have occurred, or a rounded off average, average number of missions taken and/or approximate total profits made via trading/mining. None of this proposed information would break immersion, and as it could be rough estimates, it might even add to the immersion in the sense that a player would have an idea of what may be going on but not know exactly.

My position on the APL as it was:

I find it odd, but more and more I find myself agreeing with Roda these days. At any rate, Rodas summation of the issues and problems with the APL in its previous incarnation were dead on accurate. It caused or at least contributed to things which were detrimental to the game as a whole, the Devs recognized this as a problem and dealt with it in an efficient and expedient fashion.

I enjoy the lack of APL only annoying players need it. The game isn't an IRC channel that needs to announce itself to you.

What I have seen since the APL went away:
-More newbs
-More old vets
-Busier weekdays
-Busier mornings

Needless to say the 5 or 6 people who post on this thread about making a new APL do not represent the 5 years of people saying to get rid of it and I enjoy it being gone now.

In conclusion this thread is pointless move on

"I enjoy the lack of APL only annoying players need it. The game isn't an IRC channel that needs to announce itself to you."

+1

Needless to say the 5 or 6 people who post on this thread about making a new APL do not represent the 5 years of people saying to get rid of it and I enjoy it being gone now.

+1

the APL has never affected my decision to log on or not, nor does the lack thereof. Im perfectly happy to just see which buddies are on in order to coordinate which alt will actually have something entertaining to do. As far as ryan and atices position, it seems to me that the pro APL and anti APL both have vociferous advocates, but overall, both sides remain relatively small minorities. The rest of us could really care less.

posting in troll thread

Roda is a tard.

I liked the old APL as it was. It made it easier for me to see if it was likely to be fun to log in at a particular time. It did have a negative impact on various forms of trying to be sneaky, but with such a small player base, I think player interaction is generally encouraged by knowing who's on.

If the game were to grow significantly larger, the old APL might be a bad thing. Allowing people to opt out (and appear as anonymous#randomnumber or some such) might be a good partial solution.

I don't care that it could be used to discover alts. The mechanism used for alt discovery is well known and therefore easily defeated.

I don't understand why we're still talking about this.

We're not: Roda and Atice are.

I really liked the APL, for many reasons, like:
-See how many and who is online
-Check the stats of who I am meeting in sector (like K, more practical, wide sector range while k is <5km as radar)

On other side, ALT separation is desirable and was abused.

Also, many players want to be in "the dark side" and I think it is fair. Incoming Black Nation soonTM...

So, my proposal is:
1) Bring back APL almost as it was, with graphs, etc.
2) Add an option for "anonymous" ALTs, no change in-game, but they are listed simply as "@Anonymous#123" (simple sequential number given as login order, reusable, i.e, when "@anonymous001" logs, next ppl to login receives #001). No stats shown.

Two ways to achieve (2):
2a) Create a mark to be added to pilot name, as "@"
2b) Checkbox on character creation/selection screen.

--->
This way you can choose to be public or a shady character!
---/
My guess is that most new players prefer APL and his stats shown, while mercs/rats/etc will prefer to remain in the shadows.