perhaps just take into account how much cargo holds have increased since the bulk procs were first introduced..

centaur: 48

behemoth XC: 200

at the very least, quadruple the amount asked for in the mission, if not a good deal more. leave the price/cu mission payout the same, so you wouldn't be hauling shit for nothing, but keep the faction gain the same.

seems fair to me?

The "never repeat" I said must be taken with a dosis of salt. It can repeat, but not often, as now.

In some cases, the "bulk" proc asks for 96 items. One XC load and you complete 2 missions, only taking it again, launch and dock back, since the next trade guild will ask for same goods again.

For me that is a bigger abuse - clearly exploytable - than the amount requested, since one can take a non-bulk mission, fill a XC, and take it over and over simply launching and docking. As example, proc requiring 25cu is normal, one can complete 8 missions doing only one XC trip.

--/--

For a more complex and elegant alternative, the requirement should be directly related to player licenses, like 40cu for newbies trade:1, but 400cu for a trade:8+.

the requirement should be directly related to player licenses, like 40cu for newbies trade:1, but 400cu for a trade:8+.

The higher licences you have, the more bulk missions ask. For example, procs on 14 trade ask to bring more than on 13. But difference is only 3-4% as I noticed.

HUGE -ALOT

Situation: Rat is killing newbs in UIT, rat has POS UIT, You Have POS UIT, you kill rat, you are now Hated by UIT for helping defend it's new pilots. Now you should have to spend days/weeks getting back standing?

(also, dont try to defend by saying: well if its harder to get rats wont get it, because we all know that there are rats that love to hang out in UIT i.e. retractile(trading) and autopilot(killing newbs).)

Not to mention that you have to fly a heavy trade ship with no weapons for hours in a game based on combat. I think that the problem isn't with the ship or the missions but with the fact that you haven't seen enough rats while flying your XC because you wait till it's quiet to trade in grey(or you only do the bulk procs in nation space). Die a few times in your XC while doing bulk procs. It would end up taking you longer than a few hours to get POS anyways.

The only reason it seems easy to you is because you probably trade all day and love the grind of doing 4 or 5 hours of bulk procs in a row. I know people who have been playing for a while and at most have POS with the big 3 and they say that was WAY more than enough crappy trading to do for them.

EDIT: I really can't believe people love doing bulk procs enough to want more.Have fun spending all your in game time in an XC.

If the rat is killing UIT noobs in UIT space how, exactly, are they UIT POS themselves? I've killed a lot of UIT in UIT space -- unless you're religious about moving that plasteel, you eventually wind up at -600 or lower and have to go fix it.

Not much of a pirate if he's trading... Just how broad is your definition? :p

I also know someone who was rammed to death while flying an XC and they lost all their standing because the pirate was UIT admired. Should they have to spend weeks getting standing back?

EDIT: I mean seriously...it already takes long enough to get standing up...no need for it to take longer. Also, the reason it gives you so much is that you buy the goods so if you die its your loss, so there should be more in it for you.

lies unless their explosion caused the pirates ship to explode as well. Which would be a really cool accomplishment, so high marks to whoever pulled that one off. As far as your friends losing standing for shooting pirates in UIT space, that is a problem with the faction system. One which the Anti-Exploit Club happily exploits. It should be possible to defend your nations space without being penalized. Rather, one should be rewarded.

As far as taking weeks, IT SHOULD take weeks or at least more than an hour to go from neutral -100 or so to 900+ by exploiting the game mechanics. That is the entire point of this thread.

I would alter TBF's suggestion a bit. Scale down the rewards for the existing missions (so that new players that don't have access to the moths don't get discouraged), and create missions that require 3-4 times the amount- and by all means turn a blind eye to how this utterly rapes, murders and rapes again the current economic model. I would add that one should make the missions unavailable for about an hour if someone aborts one for the specific faction.

Edit: Also, perhaps make a limited number- say 3- of missions available at each station that recover in the same manner as escorts would be a viable solution as well.

I don't know how your doing it...but it already takes most of us more than an hour to go from -100 to +900. Also, are you only talking about nation space or are you including greyspace factions too? And I was mistaken...the rat was in a rev c and bumped themselves against the XC till they died...so yeah the rat killed himself bumping against the XC. And it can take some people weeks who only want to spend about an hour a day doing proc missions instead of grinding 4 or 5 hours straight. And once again...if your willing to spend money you made on buying stuff for that faction you should be rewarded higher...I see no reason why this should be different.

And I was mistaken...the rat was in a rev c and bumped themselves against the XC till they died...so yeah the rat killed himself bumping against the XC.

You, your friend, or both of you are lying. There's no faction penalty for ram kills -- something I've used to my advantage in UIT space fairly recently. Care to try to persuade us with some other invented anecdote?

Hint 1. Think about my last suggestion prior to the edit.
Hint 2. Even though the stations tend to offer the same missions, they don't always rewards the same.
Hint 3. Exploit the game mechanics.

At present, I am only speaking about nation space, UIT specifically.

Just throwing this out there... what if every time you went below -200, the proc missions for that nation gave less faction standing?

The main problem isn't the time it takes to become POS, the problem is how players can become POS with every damn faction.

Dr. Lecter: It did happen, it was a while ago so if they fixed it then that is a good thing. Neither of us are lying. It was about 6 or 7 months or so ago and it happened inside the NFZ at a UIT capitol station in Dau and the rat didn't forgive him. If you still think I am lying I don't care..but I would trust this person way more than you.

Death Fluffy: I still don't see a point worth messing with what is currently in place. I also fail to see the logic of scaling down the rewards and having that not discouraging people who cant get moths. If proc missions are scaled down to be more like regular trading missions then there will be no incentive for you to buy the goods and take the risk of losing them. Also, limiting the missions to only a few/time doesn't really make any sense because all trading missions should always be available to increase trade. You get more for going into grey and less for staying in nationspace so I still see no problems.

Ram kills haven't produced faction standing loss since back when Arolte was inflicting standing losses on other players by getting a free bus down around 1% and then suiciding on other players up in GR.

Now there's the opposite problem, but your pal is still full of it.

The problem Jm, is that the proc missions reward you out of proportion to what you get from other similar missions. Your argument highlights my point. Players don't take the other missions because procurement gives far more trade xp and faction gain- which is why they are used.

Your argument that they should always be available to increase 'trade' doesn't work. If you want to increase your trade XP, trade. If your argument is that the proc missions generate trade activity because people want to improve their standings, then you are propping up one of the fundamental problems in the game which is the current faction system. The only reason to do proc missions vs anything else in VO is for the standing and trade XP (when you are new). That's it. There is no other reason. Zero. Nada. And attaining high standing should take time. You shouldn't be able to get to POS from neutral in a couple or few hours depending on the sub faction.

Reducing the reward, increasing the amount (rape murder rape) or restricting the number of missions for procurement and regenerating them over time would go a long way to reduce this exploit / abuse.

And the Good Dr. is correct, as much as I hate to say it :p, the only way your friend could have lost standing would have been if his explosion caused the death of his attacker.

Edit: Additionally, the procurement missions currently do nothing to enhance trade / pirate interactions. There is no 'real' investment. All your doing is moving a bunch of cheap crap that no one in their right mind would bother with outside the missions.

/me scratches his head and wonders what Jmvcilus is doing wrong that results in his dying in an XC?

Ok...dude...I said that the pirate died ramming into him. As for nerfing the proc missions, I have already stated my disagreement and a few points to support it. I also believe you should be able to get POS with a few hours of work, so we obviously will never agree that nerfing them is a good thing. I could list out many other reasons/people who think nerfing them is a bad idea...but I don't see the point if your just gonna repeat yourself.

I confirmed this with Surb earlier tonight; though, sadly, it was his ram-kill of me and my explosion-kill of him, so I get to haul some stuff for Serco :P

There's just as good a chance, though, that an aggressor in this sort of situation will effect the ram-kill and be killed in turn by the explosion of the victim. Devs, if this is the system you mean to use, you might want to make explode kills the same as ram kills re: faction standing. If I'd killed surb and his splash then killed me, his Serco POS would be a hilarious piece of history.